Should the Garmin Panoptix be outlawed in tournaments?

[hookset81]

The more videos I watch and research I do the more I wonder if the Panoptix should even be allowed in a tournament scenario.  Before you call me crazy hear me out.  Also, let me say I am the first to say the technology is gnarly and I want one!

Issues with allowing it, or not-disallowing it that I can see are unfair angling advantage, $$ buys the win, and what will it do to the common angler who will dabble in tournaments now when they see that they have no chance of getting lucky enough to win because the other guys have a far superior way of beating them?  I really think it harms the spirit of the sport of tournament ice fishing.

This opinion is pointed towards series like the NAIFC and tournaments like Yellow Bass Bonanza and Frankie's Bait Chisago tourney, real tourney's for real money/prizes which already have very specific rules packages. 

For a bit of background on what I am comparing to I come from watching another sport I love get dominated by who can spend the most and now that sport is in danger of going away.  Dirt Late Model racing has gone from being "affordable" to those who wanted to get into it to today where you need to have wind tunnel testing, engineers and $100,000 race cars to compete. 

In the world of competitive ice tourneys we are already at the $5000 to outfit and compete to do it, and for those who say I am crazy just sit down and think about how much you have invested in equipment, add whatever it takes to get you to a tourney and you will be surprised.

I only started ice fishing about 4 years ago, the 2016 was my first ice tournament.  That first year I spent over $1500 getting relatively basic gear; Auger/Clam plate,  rods/reels, sled, suit, boots, used FX8se.  The next year I got really serious and bought a atv(Kymko cheapo, $3400) FX18(used again), some more rods, etc. so now I am over $5000 in gear and that doesn't count hotels, food, tourney entry (NAIFC Chisago was $200/team I believe), fuel, etc. Add Panoptix into that and you are tossing another $3000-5000 depending on how you set it up with ducers, maps, etc.

I think its going to open up the "lets see who can spend more" can or worms and don't like where that usually goes.  Lets see what others think about this.

[bowmandan]

Happens everywhere money can be won.    Look at the walleye tourneys.  More electronics on most boats than are in the average home

[3300]

follow the guy with the unit. easy to see, being they have a giant stick holding the ducer. also i thought some events had a spot you had to fish from.

maybe they'll make a sonar detector next. some thing like radar guns and then radar detectors. cat and mouse if you will.

[Gunflint]

I think that the tournament argument is interesting. The problem is, that in any case part of what we see in consistent tournament winners is their ability to understand and use technology.

Successful ice fishing is more than who can jig their pole in the best way.

Finding the spot using gps and mapping,using the newest tackle/bobbers, flashers, fastest augers, cameras, etc.  ---  this is all part of the game AND it is part of the skill set of consistently successful ice fishermen.

Outlawing new or expensive "technology" while allowing inexpensive or "old" technology is really a different tournament.It becomes something like vintage car racing. Not the fastest or the best, but a picture of an earlier time before new and better cars, nostalgia. I grew up in high school fishing outside on a bucket without any depth finder beyond a sinker. We had no technology except an old Mora auger and a Coleman lantern.  I wouldn't like a real tournament run using those rules. Panoptix is a game changer and should be allowed in tournaments to demonstrate to all of us what it can actually do to improve our fishing.

The Panoptix pricing will erode and this will become more available to the masses. In the meantime, it gives everybody a reason to save their shekels and stay in the game.

[hnd]

yes the tech is amazing, but there is way more to the game than finding fish.  and as someone mentioned above its a monstrosity of a device that requires fidgeting with it.  come tourney time, you are hard pressed to see guys messing with cameras on fish days.  this product will be similar in its current form. 

Last year on cedar lake in mn we watched all the naifc guys fish all around us for 4 days.  they prefished with every tool known to man.  panoptix, cameras, everything.   on game day, that was all gone and they were using their flasher buckets and running from spot to spot using their gps's.

Garmin would pitch a fit if large ice fishing circuits banned their tech.   

[DTro]

It's sort of ironic because if not for these contests and tournaments and sponsors and promotions a lot of this technology development would be stifled.

I do agree that this new technology has taken it to the next level in a quick period of time, but the guys will adapt and overcome like they always do.  I bet people were saying the same thing when the first guy brought out the good ol green box on the ice and started shooting sonar down there. 

Nothing stopping anyone from hosting a "nostalgia" contest.  Only jigglesticks and spoon augers allowed. 

[Figure ate]

Humminbird just needs to make a panoptix scrambler to throw interference at the panoptix. Problem solved

[Fontona19]

So you think the panoptix is the concern with cheating in fishing tournaments? That is laughable.

[hookset81]

So you think the panoptix is the concern with cheating in fishing tournaments? That is laughable.

No, that's not what I said at all.  My concern is that it takes electronics to the point that you will need less skill to find fish(and know the relative size).  Right now, top anglers use the same equipment as the average joe and work hard to find fish.  This makes it so a new comer, average joe fisherman can line up at any NAIFC tournament against them and have a fighting chance of placing well or winning.  With Panoptix, yes the average guy can still fish, but will the garmin guy be able to significantly use that advantage against those without it.  IF the answer to that is yes, then what will that do to the number of teams lining up on tourney day.  My prediction is that if it takes over and becomes a requirement then there will be less teams entering because they feel they don't have a chance to begin with.

[Light liner]

Im just waiting until the technology gets more affordable.
So then I could justify one.
Thats the only issue I have with it.

[mboss13]

I just want one...and then I'll go to a tournament.

[Ice_Fly_Guy]

Last year, myself and partner came within a couple ounces of taking first place in a tourney of 53 teams, while using good ole Vexilars..

I understand your point, though.  I'll never be one to drop that kind of money on electronics.

[hookset81]

Last year, myself and partner came within a couple ounces of taking first place in a tourney of 53 teams, while using good ole Vexilars..

I understand your point, though.  I'll never be one to drop that kind of money on electronics.

Congrats on the finish, I also finished second in one crappie tournament and won the YBB at Clear Lake with my FL18.  I did see at least one team prefishing with the panoptix at YBB, but it seemed to not be as awesome in less than 10 ft of water where the fish were. 

Some great points have been made here, I agree with a lot that say this will not take the skill out but it sure will make things interesting as they become more prevalent. 

[Flint]

In a couple weeks Lowrance will have their livescope out. I just use my old Marcum LX5 because they always got blamed for jamming and interfering with other brands, so that’s my electronic countermeasure device.

[Seamonkey84]

I just want one...and than I'll go to a tournament.

That’s how I felt after I got mine back in sept. like I Should at least enter and use it in a tournament/derby or two to have a chance of getting some payback to justify the investment.

[Fontona19]

No, that's not what I said at all.  My concern is that it takes electronics to the point that you will need less skill to find fish(and know the relative size).  Right now, top anglers use the same equipment as the average joe and work hard to find fish.  This makes it so a new comer, average joe fisherman can line up at any NAIFC tournament against them and have a fighting chance of placing well or winning.  With Panoptix, yes the average guy can still fish, but will the garmin guy be able to significantly use that advantage against those without it.  IF the answer to that is yes, then what will that do to the number of teams lining up on tourney day.  My prediction is that if it takes over and becomes a requirement then there will be less teams entering because they feel they don't have a chance to begin with.

I know what you're getting at, but I feel like you're picking at straws. Every sport is advancing because of technology. Fishing will be no different.

My point was that fishing tournaments are notorious for people cheating anyways, I don't see how a fish finder is any different. Not to mention there's no one saying that all the competitors can't own the same equipment.

[HWeber]

I'm on the no side.  Electronics are only one piece of the puzzle,  I don't believe the average Joe's gear compares to the pros if you really dig into it. For example custom painted cranks for open water tourneyfisherman, there has to be an ice fishing equivalent. It's like anything if you wanna do it you make the commitment and pay the price. 

[FishGut]

I'm of the notion that fishing isn't meant to be competitive. Tournaments, whether ice or open water, are antithetical to the reasons why I'm out there -- to relax, to learn, to enjoy nature, but mostly to get away from folks that need to prove themselves.

Money, prizes and the illusion of fame turn good people into jerks, and turn jerks into super jerks.

Owning expensive tech doesn't mean you're a great fisherman.

I buy my tools as I need and can afford them. I don't own an independent flasher because my tech has to serve me year round. My friend has a Vex, but my graph has GPS. Does that give me an advantage? Sure as heck it does. He's got a clam plate and I still shave ice by hand. Does that give him one? Yeah. Does that make either one of us the better angler? No. But they are head starts. 

[Lukaszu]

Soon it will be called " taking fish" vs fishing.
I agree this should be banned from tournaments.

[Gunflint]

Mine arrives next week and I can hardly wait to get it built into the "ice fishing" configuration and try it out for real.

[hays47]

While I am far from being rich. Tournament fishing has no allure to me regardless of prizes offered. Personally I just don't get all het up. About fishing on a schedule . I am competitive only to the point. Who is buying breakfast based on last trip between friends.

 Bass tournaments do not prove who the best fishermen. If they included all types like live bait and trolling. Then yes. Walleye tournaments to me prove more as there or no restrictions of methods. What all tournaments are designed to do is SELL, SELL,SELL.

I use Panoptix on boat and ice. PS 22 on the ice.  PS21 and PS 30 on the boat. Does it automatically make me a better fisherman. No it just takes less time to find them. Equipment can be bought . Skill and knowledge can not. Example : Rippin Raps and Slab Raps. To me pretty impressive producers. Yet some will say . They never caught anything on them. Are they poor fishermen ? Probably not more likely they haven't invested time in learning how and when to use them.

At 71 years of age. My pool of fishing friends has been diminished. All I know is all that are left. Have either bought or want Panoptix technology . After watching me use it. 

In closing should the ice tournaments outlaw all fishfinders but flashers ? Aren't the GPS and map chips employed with MFD's giving an unfair advantage to those who chose to use flashers ?

[matzilla]

Was the beam bender outlawed? no, same premise
https://www.beambender.com/

Most of the successful tourney guys will be prefishing to find fish and pattern them, mark waypoints, hit as many fish holding waypoints as possible to amass a large bag on tourney day. The "search" mode aspect should not be done during the tournament. Is Panoptix a good tool for searching out fish? Yeah....its a good run and gun tournament fishing too? Hell no! In the end you still have to catch them...

You don't see them outlawing gas and electric augers because they're an unfair advantage over hand augers

[hookset81]

Lots of good points made by a lot of people.  Thanks for the conversation.

I am personally still on the fence, I want one as much because I like new toys as I do as a tool in the arsenal.  I also questioned it on the side of protecting the spirit of tourneys and the fear that as more "stuff" like this is available the average joe may feel outmatched so much that they don't even enter a tourney, and without the rest of the field the top teams won't be fishing for much of anything other than bragging rights.

Also, thanks for pointing out some of the other cool tools out there, being newish to this sport still I wasn't aware of some really useful cheaper things that were available.

[mboss13]

The newer panoptix livescope seems even more promising....I'm sure a faster better definition one is in the works. The day is coming where you will be able to clearly mark and identify the fish within a 100ft radius.....

The question is would spending $3800 on the livescope be worth it if you could win cash prizes in a handful of tournaments? My guess is it increases the odds but that's about it. It looks very promising. I think if tournament organizers start seeing a pattern they may not allow panoptix type sonars for tournaments.

[SLAYERFISH]

In a couple weeks Lowrance will have their livescope out. I just use my old Marcum LX5 because they always got blamed for jamming and interfering with other brands, so that’s my electronic countermeasure device.

Same here. People whine so much when I draw near--    HOWDEEE!

[esox_xtm]

I can understand the frustration of some that don't have budgets to buy into the latest greatest. Fact is a Panoptix won't catch the fish for you. Heck, a Vex or Marcum or anything else can't catch 'em for you either. Ever been on fish and can't buy a bite to save your life? I've been there and it's maddening knowing you're fishing fish and just can't get 'em to go.

Sure it'd be fun to watch the fish shapes swimming around your lure and sure, it can probably help some but it's no magic bullet. And Matt's right, where do you draw the line? 360? Sidefinders? Restrict transducer frequencies? No power augers (Augggggh!)?

FWIW, I fish a number of open water events each year where many guys have more $$ invested in electronics than I've got in my whole rig. Do I feel compromised or limited? Not so much. Fishing those events as a non-local with what I got we can crack the top ten about half the time. It's not how fast you get there, it's not whether or not you can count the teeth in the fish as they chase your lure around the boat, it's not if you got a $1200 rod/reel combo. It's about what you do with what you have. Would adding those $$ items increase our chances of landing in the Winner's Circle? Having time on the water as opposed to the toys would make more of a difference to our success.Trust your skills...

[52isntbigenough]

I'm sure there were old dudes who said the same about banning Lowrance Green Boxes back in the day.

[hays47]

Old dudes ?? I am 71 and as tech savvy as a lot of whippersnappers. Careful using generalities like I just did.

[Iceassin]

Old dudes ?? I am 71 and as tech savvy as a lot of whippersnappers. Careful using generalities like I just did.

Yeah...what hays47 said!  

[Iceassin]

I can understand the frustration of some that don't have budgets to buy into the latest greatest. Fact is a Panoptix won't catch the fish for you. Heck, a Vex or Marcum or anything else can't catch 'em for you either. Ever been on fish and can't buy a bite to save your life? I've been there and it's maddening knowing you're fishing fish and just can't get 'em to go.

Sure it'd be fun to watch the fish shapes swimming around your lure and sure, it can probably help some but it's no magic bullet. And Matt's right, where do you draw the line? 360? Sidefinders? Restrict transducer frequencies? No power augers (Augggggh!)?

FWIW, I fish a number of open water events each year where many guys have more $$ invested in electronics than I've got in my whole rig. Do I feel compromised or limited? Not so much. Fishing those events as a non-local with what I got we can crack the top ten about half the time. It's not how fast you get there, it's not whether or not you can count the teeth in the fish as they chase your lure around the boat, it's not if you got a $1200 rod/reel combo. It's about what you do with what you have. Would adding those $$ items increase our chances of landing in the Winner's Circle? Having time on the water as opposed to the toys would make more of a difference to our success.Trust your skills...

Well said esox...all the gadgets in the world aren't gonna make the fish bite if they're not hungry. You could put food in front of me 24/7 doesn't mean I'm going to eat it...well...