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sooooo, if you were to catch a trout in an established pike water, would you kill it or let it go?
, and i'll say it again, just remember that brown trout aren't native to this state
not that i really care, but it just gets me fired up when someone speaks up out of nowhere on this site and says pike have no place in this state, we should kill every pike caught and bla bla bla. i've said it before, and i'll say it again, just remember that brown trout aren't native to this state, not even the country...
it just gets me fired up when someone speaks up out of nowhere on this site and says pike have ............
not that i really care
They really are magnificent fish. Imagine one 30# or more? Ben your fish are awesome.
thanks and I really miss 2005-2006........I'm gonna hit it once or twice in March but other than than those days' are over (at least for me). What a fishery it WAS
Catching up with this thread I think the evidence is for the positions put forth by cap, Mike G, myself, Fool and others that believe science and not emotion should prevail in this argument.There needs to be management of pike. Not management designed to allow pike to out compete and displace cold water fisheries. But management that leads to the best possible outcome for the system, thus the term lemonade. The science is out there we should be using it.Here is another point I think matters and Mike G and Cap, as Registered Guides, can elaborate. If we do this properly, (scientifically) you create a fishery that would be unrivaled as far as the economic impact in Maine. We would be fishing for stocked cold water fish and self-sustaining hearty pike and bass. Selling the pike and bass makes sense and keeps greenhorn's out of remote Maine.We keep hearing that brook trout guiding and fishing is going to be the savior of the Maine outdoor economy. We have created lists of all the waters so anyone with a computer and a map can access them now, It used to take a lifetime to acquire this knowledge. All I hear is we wanna sell, sell, sell that resource. I say BS. I think that the wild brook trout fishery is too precious and fragile to exploit that way. It will ensure the demise of the brookie fishing if we continue on this road. We WILL love it to death. Try and think ten or twenty years out.On the other hand, if we manage for a trophy fishery we could generate many more outdoor economy jobs at a lower cost and no further damage to the system in Belgrades. It WAS mostly stabilized. It has the infrastructure, the water quality, the scenery to handle the pressure.No one in their right mind can say that if more an more people keep hammering the remote, delicate brook trout waters we are not going to see big problems down the road. I don't care what kinda C&R guy you think you are. I have even heard rumblings from guys that do that type of fishing that the fishing is suffering on some of the spots that have turned into some of the "big name" or "hot spots"... Some of them are backing away and looking it this subject again.The point to this is right now, today we are ruining the fisheries where we are allowing mass slaughter of pike. We are not just ruining the fishery for the pike we are ruining it for all the fish there. You knock it out of whack when you do this. The Belgrades have been balancing out for a long time. The regs were helping the pike stabilize and because of that the cold water species, like the browns are doing better too. Look at the fish that were coming out of there because of the regs. Not just pike but big, big browns. Don't believe me go and watch them at the spillway in the fall.Think about it ok?They really are magnificent fish. Imagine one 30# or more? Ben your fish are awesome.
hey bluefin, i know you like your Sebego salmon too...............if you cought a pike there whould you:A. Take a picture and through it back?B. Put your thumb in its mouth, take a picture, then through it back?C. Keep the fish?
Gamefisher,When the MIAA was doing that I was on the sidelines, I really didn't know much about the subject. I was not a member of the MIAA at that time. I can't speak for them but I have discussed it with them at great length since then so I could understand the motivation for that effort. If you want to know what they were thinking at the time you would have to ask the former leadership.If I was to hazard a guess, I think that their heart was in the right place. They thought it might be a good thing. Who knows? The MIAA has always worked toward creating more opportunity as far as I know.The last 3 or 4 years I have become more interested in the how and why of fisheries and why things are done. While researching the subject I started to read about Lake Davis in California and all the measures they had taken there, including poisoning the entire drainage 3 times unsuccessfully. How basically there has been no meaningful fishing there for over 10 years because the system is so out of whack, yet the pike seem to survive. I found and read a study from England that discussed the breading and survival of fry under different conditions. Pike is a big ticket item in Europe and they are doing extensive studies, they do not consider it a trash fish but a game fish. Basically I didn't want to see us repeating what has been done already, elsewhere. You could say my position on this subject has evolved to what it is today. Initially I figured what the heck, maybe we can fish them out. Who knew? As I gathered information, I started to change my mind. As I talked to business owners and guides that were utilizing the trophy fishery that was developing I was surprised at the way it had taken off.Here is the other thing, and you have to consider this, when I post on the shanty I am just speaking for myself not the MIAA. If the MIAA makes a position statement, I would say that. I offered up my opinion on this just for me. I am certain that there are those in and out of the MIAA that disagree with my opinion. That is ok. As the President I would never put any personal feelings or my personal agenda ahead of the good of the organization.Lastly, just because myself or others say make lemonade, don't accuse us of being bucket bios or pike lovers. That is a cheap shot and untrue I have never, nor do I know anyone that has or would move fish for any selfish reasons. I primarily fish for trout and salmon anyway. I am just as upset as anyone when I hear about this crap. I guess where I am different is that after I calm down and think about it I am asking what it the best way forward.The argument that we can't reward the bucket bios is a hollow feel good emotional argument in my opinion. No basis in fact and scientifically unsound. In fact I think what we are doing now will make things worse not better.I gotta run.
JimP - thanks for taking the time this morning. I would love to hear your opinion(not MIAA) on the second question I posed you. Thanks again Jim.
2) Do you believe that our fisheries people had ZERO say in the recent repeal of the pike regs. and that the change is 100% politically motivated?
Perhaps each new place you see pike is like the bucket bios saying well you this place up, hell lets up their favorite spot. Perhaps you fish wasters will figure this out before someplace real special gets piked, like Rangely. I don't endorse this in any way but I have heard talk like this.
Lastly, just because myself or others say make lemonade, don't accuse us of being bucket bios or pike lovers. That is a cheap shot and untrue I have never, nor do I know anyone that has or would move fish for any selfish reasons.
How do you hear the "talk", but don't know anyone that would do such a thing???
it never became very public, but last year the MDIFW nabbed a crew of bucket bios at Worthley Pond in Poland with 6 coolers of Pike....18 total. thanks to some tips, the fish never made it through the ice...
Unfortunately IFAW is a political entity and politics does come into play with the decision making process.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. A "crew" at 10 grand apiece is what the state would love to make public. They need to make an example out of somebody.
Posted by: cap Insert QuoteUnfortunately IFAW is a political entity and politics does come into play with the decision making process. Even if there were someone within IFAW who KNEW unequivocally that pike actually should be managed in order for the coldwater fishery and the pike fishery to sustain itself in a state of dynamic equilibrium, they would still have to swallow that and buck it up if the politicos said..."We ain't gonna manage pike no way no how because it is too much of a hot issue because of bucket bios and invasives."The political message is "we don't want to manage pike because if we did it sends a message that we are rewarding invasive introductions"....there isn't any science in "sending a message"...but "sending a message" is the reason for how IFAW reacts to the political eb and flow.In the long run however IFAW and the scientists within must know that time is on their side...Because if the pike and brown fishery tanks (which i think it will, because all "the science" points that way unless you choose to actively manage them) then the "public" will squack and "demand" that their politicos fix it. Then the politicos let the scientists do what they know how to do, the politicians "unshackle" the science and the scientists. The political climate will be different so basically 10 years down the road we go back to what we had a few years ago..I.E. a pike management plan.There are some of us that think this "Why waste all that time and effort to get to that place when we could be there now if we just would have some foresight and if we allowed science to drive these decisions rather than something as totally foolish as managing a fishery just "to send a message!"There are lots of people in this state that are very concerned about the resources and the fish and the fisheries. There are those that push agendas by becoming involved in the political process...that is they way it has worked in the past....just look at SAM, TU, the DDAS, BASS, etc. etc....these are all political entities. However, there are new fledgling grassroots groups and individuals that are getting together and talking that think that "politics is bull**censored**", particularly in light of the fact, that fisheries is a science. These new groups (which inevitably would have to become somewhat political) are looking at ways to get the politics out and putting the science back into fisheries management. If you are interested in participating in this sort of a movement contact me.
