MIAA email form for LD 163

[JimP]

To get this back on track...

The response has been great so far! Thanks to the shanty! If you are a MIAA member and still haven't sent the e-mail, there is still time.  It is very easy and only takes a minute. This effort could put the MIAA on the map politically. Bout time too. Let the Maine Legislature know that we are out here.

[stacymm66]

stacymm66---you being the owner of Dags Bait Shop I would expect you to oppose the bill---but that doesnt help answer anything.

Steve/Butch/Jim -I read on your chat board that emeralds are now in Cobsee--Messolonski-- Marranacook--and some Belgrade lakes.. I read here on the shanty there in Mollasas and Tunk. Sure does seem like there spreading to me.  Is that called incrementalism

Sure I would be opposed, but I can assure you bait is only part of our business. We do much more than just sell bait. It is the fact that there are many good points being brought forth to which there apparently are no facts or answers. I believe in preservation or conservation, but so far I have only heard about bait being the problem. No one has mentioned global warming, pollution, loss of habitat due to expansion of people (summer homes and camps etc.), what about predatory animals such as eagles to name one, but there are others. Have there been resarch done in those areas and if so why aren't we hearing about those findings. How can you vote for a bill that has so many holes in it.

[Steve...]

Icetime,
Glad to see you out and about today spreading the gospel The fact that the four species have been on the legal to use and sell as bait list for over thirty years speaks volumes to me. Ill put my money on theTrained professionals who developed the list, Over the Armchair Biologist wannabees who are pushing to make them illegal.
As always I expect you to disagree

Steve...

[yukoncornelius]

honestly, when talking about non-native species, i'd rather see them PROVEN to be not detrimental to native habitats before they are allowed for use rather than waiting until the cow is out of the barn....

does anyone else find it odd you can't keep koi as a pet but can use invasive, non-native bait species? 

[Steve...]

Tim
Who says there non native? less than a thrid of the 6000 lakes and ponds ofthe state have been inventoried and virtualy none of the 1000s of miles of streams and rivers. The four species are native and found through out New England and Canada
but some how they are not to Maine. I dont by it and neither do alot of others.
Steve...

[yukoncornelius]

so, trust the state bios unless you don't agree with them? 

cause they don't list them as native....to a point where you can't keep those species as pets!

[yukoncornelius]

to be honest, though.....who cares what bait you use in say sabattus? why does it really matter?

i DO care about what gets used in wild bkt trout waters, though.....any introduced species, or potential for introduced species, be they native or not, is the real issue.

heavily stocked waters? waters that are already big time pooched? who cares....

protect what still needs protecting.....i am not saying throw in the towel on the rest by any means, sound management is still sound management regardless, but the exisiting laws & regs are probably fine for 85-90% of maine waters.....it is the systems that contain wild, native fish that should be the concern....

[Steve...]

Tim
how can you claim there not native if all the waters are not inventoried, especialy when they are native in all the bodering states and Canada. Just the facts mam just the facts

Steve...

[Steve...]

to be honest, though.....who cares what bait you use in say sabattus? why does it really matter?

So why go through all the BS, just limit the wild waters to what is in them for bait problem solved

Steve...

[Loves To Fish]

Yukon said, " i DO care about what gets used in wild bkt trout waters, though.....any introduced species, or potential for introduced species, be they native or not, is the real issue".

Why are we even having this debate if all the wild brook trout waters are going to be closed to the use of live bait, NLFAB regs.

[yukoncornelius]

once the B list additions pass, to ME the debate is moot.....but not all agree with me on that

but dennis, don't you think it a tad odd that the department makes such a huge issue about expensive pet fish but doesn't want to see an issue made over non-native bait issues? honestly? especially when so many of their own bios list non-native bait species (in addition to game species) as a threat to native ecosystems? doesn't the whole situation seem a little off? like they have been holding their breath, hoping nothing bad happens, while wanting to avoid the whole issue precisely because it gets people riled up? the dept likes to try and keep people happy rather than putting the needs of fish & fisheries first, i've said it before and probably will say it 500 times again.....and that is not good, and is part of the cause of all this back & forth....

steve - i think you need to check your facts a bit.....perhaps talk to a few biologists first before you make such fantastic claims......while your at it, do a little digging on the emerald.....LOTS of bigtime issues they are having elsewehre with the "wunderfish"

[JimP]

Most of the native and wild brook trout waters are already closed to live fish as bait. The rest are ready to be added.

[yukoncornelius]

as i said, jim....once all the "B" list waters, with the coming adjustments, are added, to ME the issue is more or less a moot one....



other than that, i think the Dept just needs consistent practices....if invasives/non-natives ARE an issue, then they are an issue...period.....a koi is an emerald is a pike is a brown crawfish....make the RULE then debate any exceptions, not vice-versa

[Loves To Fish]

Yukon, personally, I think this whole baitfish banning issue is quite small in comparison to what is really making our native and wild brook trout waters disappear. If you look at the list of things that are killing off these waters ( as stated by the professionals),  baitfish invasives are way down the list. Bass, yellow perch, white perch and many other non legal baitfish species do more damage than the 4 proposed baitfish combined. And that is just the invasives, loss of habitat, water quality degradation are way ahead on the list of what is hurting the eastern brook trout. I fight these bills because they are useless. Brook trout waters in Maine will continue to decline even if these bills pass because we are not addressing the bigger problems of brook trout.

[yukoncornelius]

dennis

actually the bios have listed invasives as one of the biggest threats....any invasive is an issue, smelt were a huge issue in thissel, bait fish have been ID'ed by forrest among others AS an issue.....but the 'B' list listing will take care of some of that

gotta deal with what we can deal with

somewhere in this thread i think i listed IF&W's goals for wild brook trout management from the eastern joint venture....give it a read, pretty good stuff

[yukoncornelius]

now, when you gonna give me that primo north basin info....vacation this week!

(although i may head down to MA to see my folks, as my dad is having surgery which is canceling their usual visit north this week)

[Loves To Fish]

Nope, I didn't see anything in this thread that you posted Yukon about the goals for wild brook trout management.
I think I read them on another thread and invasive species was fourth or fifth down the list of what is threatening our eastern brook trout. Maybe we're reading from two different papers.

PM me and I'll tell you about north basin.

[yukoncornelius]

it might have been another thread

goals weren't ranked in any order of magnitude, though.....but both forrest and obrey, among others, have had very interesting reports recently about the problems with brookies and introduced bait.....maine holds 97% of the wild brookie water left in the US, guess i am one of the ones that says err to the side of ultimate caution no matter what when it comes to them....

i'll drop you a PM

[Grayfish]

Thanks for the link...Sent

[Steve...]

Tim,
I surfed around google for awhile and this is what i found out, Trout and Salmon absolutely love them and grow well on a diet of Emeralds, Smelt will prey on them.
It also appears that they are threatened  in some of the midwestern waters where they are native to also.

there was nothing I could fnd that said they negatively impacted trout or Salmon, unless you think football shape fish are bad. Below is some life history from various states. It does seem to me that they are in fact a wonder fish and may be the most perfect bait fish for both fish and angler
Steve...

Different from many other species of minnows, emerald shiners are open water (pelagic) fish. They are only found in large rivers and lakes

Emerald shiners average three to four inches in length and have very short snouts with large eyes. They are generally silver in color with green iridescence on the top fading to silver/white on the belly. Young emerald shiners are semi-transparent in appearance.

Emerald shiners travel in large schools. Unlike most other minnows, they do not spawn over gravel or vegetation, but release their eggs in mid-water.

Plankton feeders, emerald shiners will approach the surface at dark to feed, but retreat to deeper water in the day. Their population levels widely fluctuate, with one year their numbers being low and the next year their numbers being high. In years when emerald shiners are abundant, they are important forage fish for predators, as well as important bait fish for anglers.

Emerald shiner eat phytoplankton, zooplankton, and other invertebrates, including insects. The species spawns over rocky areas, and eggs hatch in one day. The emerald shiner prefers open water, so it is usually found only in lakes and reservoirs.

A fish of big waters, it is a midwater or near-surface species that usually lives in large or moderate sized schools. In the spring, they often make vertical migrations, approaching the surface at night and retreating to deeper water during the day.
 
Foods:
Emerald shiner eat phytoplankton, zooplankton, and other invertebrates, including insects. The species spawns over rocky areas, and eggs hatch in one day. The emerald shiner prefers open water, so it is usually found only in lakes and reservoirs.
 A midwater plankton cropper, feeding on a variety of zooplankton with some blue-green algae and diatoms.
Protozoans are important in the diet of the young-of-the-year and fish and insect larvae are taken by adults.
Forages on terrestrial and aquatic insects at the surface.
 
History: 
Uses: An important bait species where abundant.
 
Reproduction: Spawns late spring/early summer, sometimes as late as mid-August.
Water temperatures at spawn are around 75º F
Eggs hatch in 24-32 hours.
Population numbers fluctuate; they are extremely abundant in some years, scarce in others

[yukoncornelius]

keep searching.....

lots of negative stuff coming out now, maine isn't the only state with a ban in the potential future...some have already gone that route....

[JimP]

ultimate caution

Wow, that is a bit hypocritical for this fisherman, as long as some guys are willing to hammer the fish when they are the most vulnerable in the heat of the summer or pushing for extended fishing over spawning fish in the fall please spare me the "it is for the fish/children argument". Then there is the we have to save the "wild" fish so we can sell them to rich out of staters argument I find so offensive.

Having been familiar with taking a stand and being an original participant in the first Earth Day, at a time when our water was really polluted and getting worse, spare me, getting lectured about ecology rings hollow and is just a tad bit offensive.

Some of you guys would be best served to spend some energy seeking ways to improve fly fishing practices and the fly fisherman's image with the average angler. Find some leaders that are not so radical and confrontational. Work to build consensus and build bridges with Ice Fisherman and Spin Fisherman.

[yukoncornelius]

Wow, that is a bit hypocritical for this fisherman, as long as some guys are willing to hammer the fish when they are the most vulnerable in the heat of the summer or pushing for extended fishing over spawning fish in the fall please spare me the "it is for the fish/children argument". Then there is the we have to save the "wild" fish so we can sell them to rich out of staters argument I find so offensive.

Having been familiar with taking a stand and being an original participant in the first Earth Day, at a time when our water was really polluted and getting worse, spare me, getting lectured about ecology rings hollow and is just a tad bit offensive.

Some of you guys would be best served to spend some energy seeking ways to improve fly fishing practices and the fly fisherman's image with the average angler. Find some leaders that are not so radical and confrontational. Work to build consensus and build bridges with Ice Fisherman and Spin Fisherman.

jim - no offense, but remind me to converse with you again when you gain a clue.....

[Steve...]

Tim,
There is nothing negative about them out there and you know it. We played this game last winter with Splake and you guys took a bath we can do it again if you like.

The Emerald is a plankton feeder period, IU know it you know it the DDAS know it but most importantly the states Bioloigist know it, spin it any way you like, LD 163 will be defeated on Tuesday dont bet against it

Steve...   

[yukoncornelius]

spin? keep looking, you'll see a couple bans and a couple more possible.....not making it up, just keep looking....

what i love is 'you guys'.....who is 'you guys'? i am me.....one guy....

funny, the only 'game' i played with splake is that they shouldn't be showing up in wild waters (you know, the whole 'we don't stock over wild fish' thing?)...apparently the Dept agreed and re-tooled the stocking program a bit....as for the rest, i think you may have me confused with others.....

oh, wait, i remember now....anyone who doesn't subscribe to your narrow view shares a brain and gets marching orders from one guy....thanks, almost forgot

i swear, talking with some of you folks is like clapping with one hand.....caught in a mosh (that's an Anthrax reference if anyone out there is paying attention)


feel free to converse amongst yourselves now, i think a little TV then bed is in order here....

[Steve...]

what ever dude, the splake thing was a political thing we all know it and had absolutely nothing to do with impacting wild fish in the Rapid. The yuppies who fish it couldnt take catching 5lb Splake  when they thought they had caught a big brookie. But hey this isnt about Splake its about Emeralds and the bill will be defeated on tuesday 

Steve...

[yukoncornelius]

what ever dude, the splake thing was a political thing we all know it and had absolutely nothing to do with impacting wild fish in the Rapid. The yuppies who fish it couldnt take catching 5lb Splake  when they thought they had caught a big brookie. But hey this isnt about Splake its about Emeralds and the bill will be defeated on tuesday 

Steve...

if nothing else steve, you never fail to get me to shake my head and laugh.....

g'night now....

[Butch Moore]

somewhere in this thread i think i listed IF&W's goals for wild brook trout management from the eastern joint venture....give it a read, pretty good stuff

If I remember correctly, this was a document that was put out by a group that included a bunch of NGOs, most notably with TU as chair of one of the working groups.

lots of negative stuff coming out now,

From who?  More special interest groups like YU and the DDAS?  Perhaps you could share some more links?

...a koi is an emerald is a pike is a brown crawfish...

That sort of reminds me of that PETA quote:

“A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy.”

­ Ingrid Newkirk, President, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)

jim - no offense, but remind me to converse with you again when you gain a clue.....

Now Tim, is that any way to behave?  Let's try and take the high road and stay away from the name calling, shall we?

[JimP]

Butch,

All he can do is call names, that is what you do when you have no facts. You you start to name call and bully. If he could he would be deleting and banning everyone. He is the master censor. The whitewasher.

There is no independent thought from this bunch anyway, it's because all they can do is parrot what Bob Mallard says. Hey on another note, I heard he's looking for a dog, you might want to tell him to stick to with the "lapdogs" he seems to enjoy the company of so much. Well thats is as long as you guys wont get to jealous of Bob's new affections.  Maybe a little yippie toy poodle. Yeah that fits.

Now they are calling the Emerald an invasive. Even though you can go and trap them today in Maine waters. Believable reports indicate they were here 50 years ago. Legal bait for 30 years when this issue first came up.

For those that went to the Monmouth meeting take a minute to read the op ed that Rep Watson had put in the paper today. link

Does this sound like the meeting that you attended? I guess I knew better than to expect fairness from the guy that submitted the bill. I expect he is fully on board with the PFA's.

[Kennebec]

Butch,

Out of curiosity is the MIAA a paid advertiser on your web site or do you donate the advertisement space to them on your home page?