MIAA email form for LD 163

[Ice Time]

If you choose to put your head in the sand like Ice Time wants you to do

No Jim thats not what I want--- I would like people to do there own research and make up there own minds based on real facts.

well ice time can hope I get a flat.

No Jim I dont wish bad luck on you---- I dont even know you.

[JimP]

real facts.

As opposed to some other type of facts... relax I was kidding...

[Kennebec]

Food Comments:  Feeds on drifting terrestrial and aquatic insects chiefly in the middle and upper parts of the water column (Burkhead and Jenkins 1991). Young eat mainly rotifers. Older fishes eat largely insects, especially terrestrial ones in summer, immature aquatic insects and amphipods in winter. In lakes, eats microcrustaceans, palnkton, and insects (see Burkhead and Jenkins 1991). 

http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?searchName=Notropis%20atherinoides

Someone asked for a scientific reference of how Emerald Shiners compete with native brook trout.  Thanks Butch for posting one.  This seems like the same food source young and growing brook trout use.

[Butch Moore]

PLEASE!!!! 

Who do you think he's getting his erronious information from then?  Do you actually think he got this info from someone else?  This is a DDAS sponsored bill, and the DDAS is a fly fishing group that is known for erronious information, like the infamous "Splake Report" they tried to pass off as "fact."

Or perhaps you think that emerald shiners are as dangerous as pike or muskellunge? 

[JimP]

I heard they eat trout eggs... And they swim in the same water as the brook trout.  The nerve of some fish.. I bet they urinate on the trout food. 

[Steve...]

Different from many other species of minnows, emerald shiners are open water (pelagic) fish. They are only found in large rivers and lakes,

[Butch Moore]

Someone asked for a scientific reference of how Emerald Shiners compete with native brook trout.  Thanks Butch for posting one.  This seems like the same food source young and growing brook trout use.

And can you tell me how this list of fish does anything different?

A.  Lake chub, (Couesius plumbeus);
C.  Golden shiner, (Notemigonus crysoleucas);
E.  Bridle shiner, (Notropis bifrenatus);
F.  Common shiner, (Luxilus cornutus);
G.  Blacknose shiner, (Notropis heterolepis);
I.  Northern redbelly dace, (Phoxinus eos);
J.  Finescale dace, (Phoxinus neogaeus);
K.  Fathead minnow, (Pimephales promelas);
L.  Blacknose dace, (Rhinichthys atratulus);
M.  Longnose dace, (Rhinichthys cataractae);
N.  Creek chub, (Semotilus atromaculatus);
O.  Fallfish, (Semotilus corporalis);
P.  Pearl dace, (Margariscus margarita);
Q.  Banded killifish, (Fundulus diaphanus);
R.  Mummichog, (Fundulus heteroclitus);
S.  Longnose sucker, (Catostomus catostomus);
T.  White sucker, (Catostomus commersoni);
U.  Creek chubsucker, (Erimyzon oblongus); and
V.  American eel, (Anquilla rostrata)

Here's a start for you:

Dace feed on all types of aquatic insect larvae, worms, and algae.

http://fish.dnr.cornell.edu/nyfish/Cyprinidae/e_blacknose_dace.html

Larval white suckers feed on protozoans, diatoms, and small crustaceans.

http://www.ohiodnr.com/WILDLIFE/fishing/aquanotes-fishid/whitscker.htm

Golden shiners primarily feed on zooplankton; a study at Clear Lake in California showed zooplankton as 95% of the diet. They may also eat insects, or filamentous algae if little else is available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_shiner

Common shiner.

Food Habits: 

Feed on insects, worms, microcrustaceans, spiders, small fish, plants, and detritus

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/commonshiner.html

Are we going to see another anti-bait bill come along after this one because these species of fish compete with brook trout as well??

[Bluefinforme]

Who do you think he's getting his erronious information from then?  Do you actually think he got this info from someone else?  This is a DDAS sponsored bill, and the DDAS is a fly fishing group that is known for erronious information, like the infamous "Splake Report" they tried to pass off as "fact."

Or perhaps you think that emerald shiners are as dangerous as pike or muskellunge? 

 

[goneicefishin]

i think i am scared to state the fact that i am a flyfisherman     but i do appreciate all the research that you have done butch.  it is nice to be able to get on this website and read not only opinions (fired up though they may get sometimes) but also some good reasoning. It is a difficult position to take a side on and some misreprenstation at times even makes it more difficult. being a flyfisherman from the age of 5 and also a ice fisherman has helped to give a balanced view after careful research. but again would like to state we do appreciate the amount of time that you have put into researching the issue and providing info and quotes.

[Ice Time]

Thank you butch but you missed smelt

And can you tell me how this list of fish does anything different?

 AND

Are we going to see another anti-bait bill come along after this one because these species of fish compete with brook trout as well??

Thank you for making the point
This is exactly why bait fish should be kept out of what good wild brookie water we have left---- knowing this I would expect you to support Sams bill.

[Kennebec]

Just thanking you for posting facts Butch, no opinion was expressed on my part, I hope you didn't jump to that conclusion.

[Butch Moore]

This is exactly why bait fish should be kept out of what good wild brookie water we have left---- knowing this I would expect you to support Sams bill.

Actually, at this point I'd be closer to supporting a repeal of the "Heritage Brook Trout Act" than I would LD 285.

[goneicefishin]

i am just thinking that the state is running scared as far as the iinvasive species is concerned. is their a 100% correct way of handling this? dont know but hoping that some serious research and some enforcement is put into play in the near future. i love the state of maine and its fishery, have grown up fishing here and will die fishing here   hopefully die with a fly rod in my hand! and their is nothing more peaceful than standing on a brooktrout water with a 3wgt rod in my hand catching native brookies. or sitting on the ice watching the sun come up or the sunsets. buti do worry about the impact of certain species on others.  now i am just a dumb carpenter who probably has fallen on his head one to many times
but i do look to those who understand the habitat that a fish needs to survive.   i just wish that before this bill was even put out there that the ones supporting and pushing for it put out more info than just some cryptic "these fish are going to ruin everything" saying. again i am not the sharpest tool in the shed but not a lot of light has been shed on this proposition and why we should support it    butch you have done a good job giving us research and i do appreciate it   just wish that those trying to pass the bill would educate better

[Butch Moore]

just wish that those trying to pass the bill would educate better

I think the reason they aren't educating is because the facts aren't on their side...

[fshnfool]

mine-as-well start a Pike debate while you guys are at it....

  One thing at a time Ben......    you sure you don't wanna come and voice your opinion?.....I'd LOVE to hear what you've got to say on the subject....in front of the Maine legislature... ...

[Steve...]

Someone asked for a scientific reference of how Emerald Shiners compete with native brook trout.  Thanks Butch for posting one.  This seems like the same food source young and growing brook trout use.

Kennebec,
yes Emeralds eat the same plankton as Brookie's just as many other Bait fish do. Now here is the monkey in the wrench. Brookie's hatch out some time in March,And eat small microscopic Plankton particles, as they grow in size there diet changes to larger size particles of plankton as does all fish species that depend on plankton for food.

Now here is the problem for your theory, Emeralds and other plankton eating Bait fish hatch out later in the year, not all but some.since we are discussing Emerald we will stay with them.The Emerald shiner hatches out in July Three months after the Brookie emerges from there egg.

by the time Emeralds hatch the Brookie Fry is eating much larger Plankton particles so there is no competition for food! The Brookie's also will feed on the newly emerging Emeralds for food. This is why they may possibly be the most perfect bait fish for Trout and Salmon

Steve...

[Kennebec]

I was refering to this portion of Butch's post:

Older fishes eat largely insects, especially terrestrial ones in summer, immature aquatic insects and amphipods in winter.

[allagashking]

Thats exactly why i don't duck hunt to hard to tell different species,know what emeralds look like never heard of the other sure couldn't tell the difference.I truly believe there is a hid-in agenda here just a start .Worked around the state house for 30 years rumors i here is want to attack ice fisherman fist because they are the weakeast group lets prove them wrong.all just my oppion and rumors.  ARNIE

[fshnfool]

No need to discuss this any further.......feel free to lock the thread bilditrite....