Going to be an unpopular take

[Fry Flier]

Fishing is fishing with help from a friend or knowledge a good day on the ice is being out and catching fish from what you have learned or figured out.  For others, it is what they have been able to seek and find either with knowledge or help by past experience or John Doe the fisherman or Garmin, Humminbird, Lawrence whatever the source may be. Fishing is fishing just pick your way.

[Iceassin]

15 yrs ago, if you told me there would be live imaging and sonars you can use through your cell phone, graphs, split zooms, side imaging... I would of thought you were nuts. Yet here we are.

And all of that technology still isn't going to make us the next Dave Genz or Kevin VanDam. As I said before, finding or seeing fish doesn't mean your gonna catch 'em. If that was the case, we'd all be on stage at the final weigh in. It ain't happenin'.

[Disco Bobber]

The problem I see with this is that the fish that are most susceptible to this technology are Bluegills, Crappies, and Perch.    The catch and release ethic just isn't there with these fish - particularly perch.   I don't know what the answer is other reducing limits. 

[Hardwater2]

15 yrs ago, if you told me there would be live imaging and sonars you can use through your cell phone, graphs, split zooms, side imaging... I would of thought you were nuts. Yet here we are.

And all of that technology still isn't going to make us the next Dave Genz or Kevin VanDam. As I said before, finding or seeing fish doesn't mean your gonna catch 'em. If that was the case, we'd all be on stage at the final weigh in. It ain't happenin'.

X2
Technology is just incredible these days. I’m a fan of most of it. Enjoy staring at my flasher and watching my Helix. But fish still need to be fished and caught. Way too many variables out there……

[kpd145]

15 yrs ago, if you told me there would be live imaging and sonars you can use through your cell phone, graphs, split zooms, side imaging... I would of thought you were nuts. Yet here we are.

And all of that technology still isn't going to make us the next Dave Genz or Kevin VanDam. As I said before, finding or seeing fish doesn't mean your gonna catch 'em. If that was the case, we'd all be on stage at the final weigh in. It ain't happenin'.

Agreed, Technology doesn't get fish on the ice or in the boat. If anything, it may show lack of knowledge or skill when others see the fish but cannot catch the fish.

[meandcuznalfy]

15 yrs ago, if you told me there would be live imaging and sonars you can use through your cell phone, graphs, split zooms, side imaging... I would of thought you were nuts. Yet here we are.

And all of that technology still isn't going to make us the next Dave Genz or Kevin VanDam. As I said before, finding or seeing fish doesn't mean your gonna catch 'em. If that was the case, we'd all be on stage at the final weigh in. It ain't happenin'.

Yep, nothing more frustrating to see them and not get them to hit anything. On the other hand one slow day I caught all I saw on my flasher, a total of like 4 or 5.

[Fish Butcher]

15 yrs ago, if you told me there would be live imaging and sonars you can use through your cell phone, graphs, split zooms, side imaging... I would of thought you were nuts. Yet here we are.

And all of that technology still isn't going to make us the next Dave Genz or Kevin VanDam. As I said before, finding or seeing fish doesn't mean your gonna catch 'em. If that was the case, we'd all be on stage at the final weigh in. It ain't happenin'.

. I was lucky. Learned a few bluegill tricks from the old guy that taught Genz how to catch them. Only need know how.

[Rebelss]

I remember when the Marcum LXi handheld locator came out, for hole hopping. Thought that was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then I moved up to the Showdown II, and an Aqua-view mini-cam....and the batteries and cases and cables and transducers...sometime s I spent more time fiddlin' than fishin'. 

[meandcuznalfy]

I remember when the Marcum LXi handheld locator came out, for hole hopping. Thought that was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then I moved up to the Showdown II, and an Aqua-view mini-cam....and the batteries and cases and cables and transducers...sometime s I spent more time fiddlin' than fishin'. 

Lol, I still do that sometimes.

[meandcuznalfy]

Thnx for the help.  If I have a hard time seeing my hook I turn up the gain and that usually helps.  I'll have to try the split zoom, IF, I can figure it out, lol.

It'll help lots, I believe there's better target separation on the zoom also

[Kevin23]

I know I am going to get ripped for this...but here goes anyway.

I can't stop thinking how all this "live imaging" is bad for fishing. There I said it!

With the ability for anyone, even poor fishermen, to find fish SO easily. Then when they get on them, being able to track them and follow their every move makes them much much easier to catch. We already have fish population issues all over the place that bag limits are getting reduced drastically. I think these live imaging units are going to hurt tremendously...more than people have even thought of.

Again, I know a majority of people on here are going to disagree with this take but I have been thinking about it for some time now and I just had to say it.

Go ahead rip away!

I agree. It makes people who could never use knowledge and reasoning to find fish able to find them with ease. The hardest part of ice fishing panfish is finding the dang things, the catching is the easy part. ESPECIALLY late ice schooled up fish, lots of guys never can figure out that the fish go out deep and school.. and it takes work to stay on them the traditional way. Now you drill a couple holes and twist the handle to find the fish.

Now, I will say the last few years I have seen one guy with livescope/panoptix for every 100 people on the ice. Until it gets to be a significant amount of people using them, it won't hurt anything on most waters. You can only keep your limit. And the couple people I did see using them didn't use them to the full potential, they just sat in a hole and watched the screen all day catching just as many fish as everyone else.

[slipperybob]

This is way I don't bed fish.  I feel it's ethically wrong.

[Remps17]

Is the concern that you guys have is that these guys with live imaging are keeping their limit every time they go out or worried that the more they catch and release their is  more hook mortality?

I am curious on how many guys are catch and release with the occasional one for the pan.

[FreshwaterPhil]

Is the concern that you guys have is that these guys with live imaging are keeping their limit every time they go out or worried that the more they catch and release their is  more hook mortality?

I am curious on how many guys are catch and release with the occasional one for the pan.

Depends on the species. I release pretty much all the bass I catch, unless I'm in a lake where there are too many and they are stunted. When it comes to panfish species that I target only on ice, I'm usually aiming to keep bag limits for my family.

So, if I were to purchase one of these live imaging systems, there's a decent chance I'd put a good dent into their population on some of the lakes I fish.

Luckily for us, wild trout are closed in winter in almost all the lakes where they exist. Only some lakes with stocked trout allow for their harvest, so I wouldn't worry about pulling bag limits from a put and take fishery.

[kondan]

I agree with the OP on this topic. I got livescope when it first came out and this last ice season 50% of the people on most lakes I visited had livescope too. So imagined if everyone on your favorite lake has this technology or the shanty towns on the lake all had livescope. The fishery will take a big hit in a few years.

But I also want to mention that other factors have to be considered too. Climate change such as droughts, more houses being built on lakes which interferes with fish habitats, lures(soft platics,hooks) that can kill fish, and of course social media.

I'm all for limits because I only take enough for a meal for me once a month. In the end, education is key and it starts with you and me as anglers to teach the young ones behind us.

[WARRIOR_ON_ICE]

Here in Michigan in the early 80's there was no limit on perch on the Saginaw Bay.  Then in the 90's a limit of 100 was enacted.  In about 2000 the limit went to 50 and as recently as last year it went to 25.  We can take 25 perch, a mix of 25 gills and specks, 5 large or small mouth bass that must be over 14 inches and 2 northern pike over 24 inches.  I wasn't in agreement that the perch limit being reduced to 25 but if the limits stay what they currently are, at least you can go out and still catch enough for a meal for a family of 4.  Fifty perch fillets off of fish that are 8+ inches is a pretty good meal.  The limits get down to 5 here, I'm done buying a license too!

Wow, now that is frightening that one of the great lakes could be overfished by anglers. Are you sure there is not more to the story, did the fish populations mostly decline from environmental causes instead - zebra mussels, pollution etc ? Here in NY, there are more fishermen on granted more numerous but smaller lakes and the size and bag limits for nearly every species has not changed very much in my 45 years of fishing. We currently have a general statewide reg. of 50 perch, 25 crappie over 9 inches, 5 pike over 18 inches, 2 lake trout over 21 inches and no closed season or limit on pumpkinseeds in nearly all waters. The biggest abuse that I witnessed, which caused changes to the perch and crappie regs. was guys keeping as many of these as they could catch to sell them until 20 years ago

[WARRIOR_ON_ICE]

Here is the technology that I use for ice fishing, and I have enough money to buy any gadget ever invented.

Hand auger, MORA
Tipups, no jawjackers or other automatic hookset variations,
Hub shelter, on cold days
Jigging rods
Lead depth sounders

I learned to fish with these devices, and have resisted joining the majority that have power augers, flashers and an ATV or snowmobile to cover the entire lake. I enjoy learning the contour of the bottom by sounding holes, not ever knowing if there are fish under them until a flag goes up. I also enjoy walking across the ice as much as 1 mile from the car to get to an interesting new area of a lake to fish.  I am not after limit catches of anything, but it does happen somewhat frequently. A fish fry with my family of the day's catch is one of the finer things in life, therefore I don't release legal perch or crappies unless I am culling smaller ones on a day of superb action

[bobberbill]

Nothing better than watching someone with a Livescope set up, move to where the fish are spotted and catch a fish. Everyone on the ice is going to notice and swarm the area.

[stripernut]

Nothing better than watching someone with a Livescope set up, move to where the fish are spotted and catch a fish. Everyone on the ice is going to notice and swarm the area.

How is that different than what many "anglers" do now? All it takes is a group of anglers to be fishing together and it will attract more anglers even if no one is getting anything... Ice or open water...

[DR.SPECKLER]

Because the crowd mentality might not be set up on the bulk of fish and not know which way the are going.you know if a guys is using livescope hes not setting there for no reason.thats what makes the unit superior over a vexilar.its ability to know which way fish are going and can hunt them down with a directional twist of the ducer.id follow a panoptix guy before a sheeple crowd with traditional flashers if i was going too.

[stripernut]

DR.SPECKLER, I bet neither you nor I "follow" crowds around, no matter what type of electronics someone is using and the type of angler that does this is going to follow other anglers, no matter what they are using... It is no different than other types of sight fishing, a good example would be fishing for busting Bonito and Albacore in the salt, every year boats literally run each other over just to get to fish first...

[DR.SPECKLER]

Correct.only time im in a crowd is when personally getting  crowded in when i get sloppy and people see ive got some fish on the ice.

[slipperybob]

They follow me, to ask me, "Have you got any auger gas I can borrow?"

Nope, I run a 4-stroke.  What they should've asked me was how's the fishing.  I would tell them, it's great!.  It's great to go looking for fishing spots ABC's.  A Sea of nothing.  Be catching nothing.  See nothing on the flasher. 

[river_scum]

I want to know if there is something that interfears with these systems. Like flashers too close to each other. Lol

[Kevin23]

Nothing better than watching someone with a Livescope set up, move to where the fish are spotted and catch a fish. Everyone on the ice is going to notice and swarm the area.

No different than what the bent pole scouts do now. Pretty pathetic when you have to rely on seeing someone else find fish to have a successful day.

 It doesnt bother me as much as it used to, i usually just let them fully move all their gear over and then i leave and go find fish elsewhere. They get tired of following after a while, and more times than not the reason they are not catching fish isn't because of the spot. You can put these people on a 10 foot stack of fish and they wont catch one. The best one is when i move and mark 4-5 fish, catch them all and have someone walk up to me and say "looks like you found them". They always think I am lying when i say i only marked 4 and caught all of them, as i am pulling my flasher out to move again. More than a few times the guy will then ask "you mind if i take this hole?" afterwards, i say go ahead.. he doesn't catch anything because it's a hopping bite and these bent pole scouts fish the scraps behind me. If they sit long enough i will herd the fish back to them eventually

[Rebelss]

They follow me, to ask me, "Have you got any auger gas I can borrow?"

Nope, I run a 4-stroke.  What they should've asked me was how's the fishing.  I would tell them, it's great!.  It's great to go looking for fishing spots ABC's.  A Sea of nothing.  Be catching nothing.  See nothing on the flasher.

When they come over to look at my screen and ask "Whaddya seein' ?" I like to tell 'em "not much, just some old Gunsmoke reruns".....

[Gamalot]

I grew up fishing the hard water back in the 60s and we never had any electronics at all. We caught fish some days and got skunked other days. When I retired I got deep into being the electronic gadget fisherman with the fanciest gadgets and an AquaView camera and some days I caught fish and other days I still got skunked. I tossed all the gadgets and went right back to the old way. I don't honestly care if I even catch fish because I go just to be out relaxing and hanging with my pals. On a rare occasion I might take a fish or two home for dinner that evening because I am a firm believer that fresh caught, never frozen fish are the best we can get.
As far as over fishing and crowded lakes goes, I think it has more to do with the other gadgets we now have. Tents, pop up shanties, heaters and even tip ups that do the jigging for you and also flag signaling devices that probably link to your phone to tell you the flag is up. At 70 I sure do appreciate the shanty and heater and it beats sitting out on a bucket like we did as kids. I appreciate having a power auger and even a motorized power puller to get my gear out and back. Back in 1964 we could have the entire lake to ourselves on most days because not many guys were nuts enough to stay out there freezing their buns off to catch a few fish. These days I leave all the battery operated stuff home except my phone for the camera. Staring at a screen seems more like being at home than it does like fishing. Our world is changing pretty quickly these days and I just saw this hunting season where some guys have cellular trail cameras that link to their phones so they can see the deer coming long before it gets there. It doesn't sound like sport to me but that is where things are heading.

[Rebelss]

I grew up fishing the hard water back in the 60s and we never had any electronics at all. We caught fish some days and got skunked other days. When I retired I got deep into being the electronic gadget fisherman with the fanciest gadgets and an AquaView camera and some days I caught fish and other days I still got skunked. I tossed all the gadgets and went right back to the old way. I don't honestly care if I even catch fish because I go just to be out relaxing and hanging with my pals. On a rare occasion I might take a fish or two home for dinner that evening because I am a firm believer that fresh caught, never frozen fish are the best we can get.
As far as over fishing and crowded lakes goes, I think it has more to do with the other gadgets we now have. Tents, pop up shanties, heaters and even tip ups that do the jigging for you and also flag signaling devices that probably link to your phone to tell you the flag is up. At 70 I sure do appreciate the shanty and heater and it beats sitting out on a bucket like we did as kids. I appreciate having a power auger and even a motorized power puller to get my gear out and back. Back in 1964 we could have the entire lake to ourselves on most days because not many guys were nuts enough to stay out there freezing their buns off to catch a few fish. These days I leave all the battery operated stuff home except my phone for the camera. Staring at a screen seems more like being at home than it does like fishing. Our world is changing pretty quickly these days and I just saw this hunting season where some guys have cellular trail cameras that link to their phones so they can see the deer coming long before it gets there. It doesn't sound like sport to me but that is where things are heading.

 I couldn't agree more. Exactly how I feel. Very well put, sir. 

Maybe us old pharts still walk to the beat of a different drummer. 

[river_scum]

When they come over to look at my screen and ask "Whaddya seein' ?" I like to tell 'em "not much, just some old Gunsmoke reruns".....

Half them wouldn't know what gun smoke is.


I just shut my unit off when pep walk up.

[zcm_82]

I couldn't agree more. Exactly how I feel. Very well put, sir. 

Maybe us old pharts still walk to the beat of a different drummer. 

I don't run any electronics on the ice either, but I'm not that old yet... maybe just old school 

The kind of fishing I do, if you actually do some legwork and homework in open water time, you don't need them, anyway.

Fish are generally just swimming stomachs... they follow food, and the food follow structure and temperature patterns, it isn't rocket science. 🤷‍♂️