A chat with the CO

[rcjim]

Rico, your example with the deer was the best explanation. If your pond has an inlet and an outlet, then size and bag limits apply, this is nothing new, it has always been the law. This includes the need for a license when fishing this even if it is on private property. Anyone who doubts it, try to call a CO's bluff and then go pay the ticket. It is something that is almost never enforced, but if pushed a CO can get real crappy and lay down the law.

[rico]

Hows your ice Rico? I think I am on Tue, Wed at latest

Looking good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rico]

Rico, your example with the deer was the best explanation. If your pond has an inlet and an outlet, then size and bag limits apply, this is nothing new, it has always been the law. This includes the need for a license when fishing this even if it is on private property. Anyone who doubts it, try to call a CO's bluff and then go pay the ticket. It is something that is almost never enforced, but if pushed a CO can get real crappy and lay down the law.

NO.  You do not need a license to fish private water.  However if you are caught transporting fish from that body of water then you very well might be in a pickle.

[rcjim]

hoping to head your way Rico for the ICE FEST, if they get locked up in the next couple days there ought to be some pretty good ice after these single digit nights!!

[rico]

hoping to head your way Rico for the ICE FEST, if they get locked up in the next couple days there ought to be some pretty good ice after these single digit nights!!

Amen bro.......look forward to it!

[chevy88]

pretty sad when you need a lawyer to catch a few fish

[rico]

pretty sad when you need a lawyer to catch a few fish

Yes it is.  But I do things around here the "old school" way.  It in some cases involves a shotgun. 

[frozengator]

Yes it is.  But I do things around here the "old school" way.  It in some cases involves a shotgun. 

HaHa  thats funny... How about stocking that pond if threre is an inlet and outlet?   I mean like grass carp.  I wonder how that falls?

[jcindiana]

Yes it is.  But I do things around here the "old school" way.  It in some cases involves a shotgun. 

lol lol old school lol lol ......shotgun

[rico]

HaHa  thats funny... How about stocking that pond if threre is an inlet and outlet?   I mean like grass carp.  I wonder how that falls?

Does the inlet or outlet involve public water? 

[sprkplug]

Specifically, the state maintains that while triploid grass carp are legal to stock in private waters,  every possible precaution to prevent their escape into public waters should be taken by the pond/lake owner.

In Indiana, only triploid grass carp are legal...and they are sterile.

[rico]

Specifically, the state maintains that while triploid grass carp are legal to stock in private waters,  every possible precaution to prevent their escape into public waters should be taken by the pond/lake owner.

In Indiana, only triploid grass carp are legal...and they are sterile.

Stay on them Sparky!!!!!!

[panfisherman]

I'll disagree with not having to follow the state bag and size limits. Take the undersize fish off of the property and get caught with it and see how difficult it is to explain where the fish was caught from. I don't think it will matter one way or another with the Warden where it was caught from. The Warden has more power than most know. He can cross the state line and enter your home with no warrant to check your freezer.

[rico]

I'll disagree with not having to follow the state bag and size limits. Take the undersize fish off of the property and get caught with it and see how difficult it is to explain where the fish was caught from. I don't think it will matter one way or another with the Warden where it was caught from. The Warden has more power than most know. He can cross the state line and enter your home with no warrant to check your freezer.

I think I covered that man.  I am all to aware of what a CO's powers are.  The thread aint about CO's.

[sprkplug]

I'll disagree with not having to follow the state bag and size limits. Take the undersize fish off of the property and get caught with it and see how difficult it is to explain where the fish was caught from. I don't think it will matter one way or another with the Warden where it was caught from. The Warden has more power than most know. He can cross the state line and enter your home with no warrant to check your freezer.

Bag and size limits do not apply to private waters in Indiana. I have no doubt that a CO would question an angler as to the location where a questionable fish/fishes originated from. They might even issue a ticket if they were so inclined. However, the burden of proof is on the officer to show that the fish came from public water, while the landowner can quickly offer proof in the form of ownership of the pond, probably provide witnesses and permission to fish in order to corroborate the ticketed angler's story, and in my case...receipts where I bought and paid for the fish that are in my ponds.

What proof can the CO offer to the contrary?  None. Because there isn't any.

[rico]

Bag and size limits do not apply to private waters in Indiana. I have no doubt that a CO would question an angler as to the location where a questionable fish/fishes originated from. They might even issue a ticket if they were so inclined. However, the burden of proof is on the officer to show that the fish came from public water, while the landowner can quickly offer proof in the form of ownership of the pond, probably provide witnesses and permission to fish in order to corroborate the ticketed angler's story, and in my case...receipts where I bought and paid for the fish that are in my ponds.

What proof can the CO offer to the contrary?  None. Because there isn't any.

LOL....you da man!!!!!  You are dead on.

[Ice_Fly]

Nope, private water is private water.  No boating laws apply or licenses are required for any on that body of water.  I know it might sound confusing, it took me awhile to digest it myself, but it is pretty simplistic.

Yep, that about sums it up. Unless, like you previosly stated, it has an inlet or outlet.

[wallydiven]

NO.  You do not need a license to fish private water.  However if you are caught transporting fish from that body of water then you very well might be in a pickle.

Or you better have a landowners permission slip.

[libo]

also if said private waters were stocked with fish by the state of IN , an there are some. you have to follow IN law. lic, boating, & limits

[MDeppe]

This discussion also calls another question to mind.  Suppose you own a private pond and catch over the amount of what the state says is your bag limit, not daily limit ,but bag limit you have the fish in your freezer so possession is not a question.  Are you in violation of the law?  Who has the burden of proof to say where fish were caught?  Remember DNR is excluded from 4Th amendment search and seizure laws and can check your freezer.  The law doesn't address where you caught the fish but what you are in possession of.

[Joe2727]

Wow great question I did not know there were laws on what you could have in freezer. I know about wild game but not fish

[sprkplug]

Here:

 http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/2011/08/dnr-aims-to-clear-up-possession-limit-rules.html

When you enter this realm of discussion, the sky becomes the limit. There's nowhere to draw the line....."what if I'm fishing public water and a meteorite hits the water and splashes out a bunch of fish, and a CO comes along and cites me for being over my daily limit?" Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Nope.

In my opinion, we, as a society, want everything spelled out in black and white, with all possible outcomes allowed for and accommodated. But it doesn't work that way, as there exists grey areas that will need to be interpreted on the fly.

Yes, Indiana did, at one time,  offer fish for stocking private waters, with the caveat that the general public be allowed to fish those same waters thereafter. I know of no such place existing today...perhaps there still are some out there, but does anyone have actual firsthand knowledge of such a BOW? I would be curious in this regard.

To my knowledge, here in Indiana private water, and the fish therein, are just that...private. Excluded from rules and regs imposed upon the public venues. Yes, a CO can enter and peek into your freezer. How many have firsthand knowledge of an instance where this happened, and the angler in question had actually taken those fish from private water, legally and with permission, and was still unjustly accused?

A lot of "what ifs", with no real substance behind them in my opinion.

[libo]

sprkplug- I got that straight from IN dnr law dept. I'm sure if you wanted to you  could get list of stocked lakes. I only fish one private lake an the owner has his own rules. thats why he did his own stocking

[cmoore09]

I am still a tad confused by the example.  But any land that touches the water gives access to the water.  It becomes "free" domain.  Now the issue would be under your scenario hunting.  Property lines exist through water concerning shooting of firearms across said lines.

I thought the same thing that you have free range on water.  Not the case on certain private lakes.  For obvious reasons I don't to give out the lake name, but if Tater and I run into you on the Ice, I'll explain it better.  I'm not that great a wordsmith!

[sprkplug]

Here's what i got on the subject of the State stocking private waters. This comes directly from the Chief of Fisheries, IDNR.

"We do not and (for the most part) have not been in the habit of stocking private ponds.  The exceptions have been 1) such as West Boggs where a pond owner in the watershed allows us to rotenone a pond and we restock at our expense; 2) for a brief time in the 1970’s, we offered the same service if a private pond owner voluntarily self-reported illegal stocking of grass carp (in the old diploid days); and 3) also in the 1970’s we tried to increase public fishing by offering to stock new or recently renovated private ponds with one introductory stocking of bass and bluegill only if the owner signed an agreement to allow public access and agree to stock nothing else except channel catfish.  I don’t recall any takers.
 
Until it was discontinued in 1975, the USFWS provided bass and bluegill fingerlings for stocking private ponds in Indiana.  Pond owners could make an application for free fish through the old Soil Conservation Service (Now NRCS) and later a delivery truck from a federal hatchery (Sennecaville or Hebron NFH in Ohio) would show up in the area and offload pond owner’s fish.
 
Even in those rare instances of DNR stockings of private waters noted above (#1 and #2), the stockings did not convey any trespass rights.  The ponds remained privately owned and controlled and fishing was by permission of the landowner.  We were willing to make the investment without gaining public fishing access because of the need to rid those waters of undesirable fish."

Looks like private water is just that....Private.

[Sachs68]

I'm curious as to where in the constitution it states that the Dnr has authority to circumvent the 4th amendment. Not arguing, just would like to see it in black and white.

[graham]

I'm curious as to where in the constitution it states that the Dnr has authority to circumvent the 4th amendment. Not arguing, just would like to see it in black and white.

Good point. You mean where the guy said a CO can come search your freezer without a warrant?

[sprkplug]

Probable Cause.

[bldfrt]

I'm not sure it matters much what that thing says these days

[graham]

Probable Cause.

No, not for a private residence. They need a warrant for that. That's what the 4th Amendment is for. If they have probable cause a judge will give them a warrant.