A chat with the CO

[rico]

Been a lot of discussion here recently concerning private water.  Let me start off by saying I am not a lawyer nor have ever professed to be.  Most of what I know concerning fishing laws comes from, who is now retired, a CO that has permission to hunt and fish here on my family's land.

A few years back a friend of mine contacted me.  Him and one of his friends were fishing a private lake.  Upon them exiting a CO approached them.  He asked to see their catch.  My buddy's friend got cited for an undersized bass.  My friend knowing that I was on good terms with a local CO, called me to inquire about what was going on.

Upon my contact with my CO I found out this......A private body of water is just that, private. However if there is an inflow or outflow into or from that body of water and it is public then all size limits, and bag limits apply.  The flowage doesn't have to be deemed navigable, just public.  Basically private individuals might own all the land around a lake but the state owns the fish.

Just reporting what I was told. 

[Crappie slayer 36]

That's the way I understand the law also Rico.

[WalleyeHunter84]

2nd that

[rico]

I just brought it up because of the post talking about white perch.  Some private water just aint as private as some might think.

[bigr]

This may be far from accurate, but i was always told that most all fish and game laws  applied no matter where your at unless you are the actual owner/leasee. Also the COs have the right to investigate any actions they feel a need for on that piece of property. Licenses,size and bag limits,so on. If this info is true i think most COs use very good judgement before coming onto private land and right tickets.

[rico]

This may be far from accurate, but i was always told that most all fish and game laws  applied no matter where your at unless you are the actual owner/leasee. Also the COs have the right to investigate any actions they feel a need for on that piece of property. Licenses,size and bag limits,so on. If this info is true i think most COs use very good judgement before coming onto private land and right tickets.

Nope, private water is private water.  No boating laws apply or licenses are required for any on that body of water.  I know it might sound confusing, it took me awhile to digest it myself, but it is pretty simplistic.

[cmoore09]

I'd add that a private lake can be deeded up and "property" lines can be drawn.  Just because you get on a private piece of land to a private lake, doesn't mean you have access to all water like a public lake.  A private lake I fish is this way. 

[rico]

Look at it this way.  I got 40 acres here, it is my land, however I don't own the deer.  They jump over fences and cross property lines.  When you have a private body of water, if the fish can come and go as they please they are no different than the deer, we don't own them, they are just using said property and can move freely

[rico]

I'd add that a private lake can be deeded up and "property" lines can be drawn.  Just because you get on a private piece of land to a private lake, doesn't mean you have access to all water like a public lake.  A private lake I fish is this way.

Elaborate a little further.

[Crappie slayer 36]

Ok now in confused I always thought that the WATER is state owned in the case of an inlet and outlet in said body of water.

[rico]

Ok now in confused I always thought that the WATER is state owned in the case of an inlet and outlet in said body of water.

If a private body of water and certain criteria apply the state owns or controls the fish. 

[sprkplug]

I predict this very issue will be at the forefront of some extended legal battles in the near future. The process is already in motion. Big brother wants your water, and since every BOW will overflow from time to time, quite possibly into a creek, river, or drainage ditch somewhere downstream which is publicly owned and controlled by the state, they will use this to their advantage.

[rico]

I predict this very issue will be at the forefront of some extended legal battles in the near future. The process is already in motion. Big brother wants your water, and since every BOW will overflow from time to time, quite possibly into a creek, river, or drainage ditch somewhere downstream which is publicly owned and controlled by the state, they will use this to their advantage.

Love the "Big Brother" reference......and in quite a few cases you exactly right.

[sprkplug]

Yeah I think that there's trouble on the horizon.....maybe one of our hardwater comrades from out east, New York perhaps, will weigh in on the "private water" issue.

As pond owners, we've got it good in Indiana. I just want it to stay that way.

[rico]

Yepper.

[GIBBS]

We've got a watershed down here that works that way. As explained to me by a C.O. the thing was built with tax dollars and when it rains good water runs through it wich i would have thought made it public but with private access. However in this case its not true the property lines extend from the bottum of said b.o.w. up and into the sky. I know that sounds like B.S. to me also but the man that told me that is one of the few that the c.o.'s have to answer to. We almost bought the farm that ninety percent of the dam sits on and just a big enough piece of the actual water to park a canoe. So technicaly if the fish weren't in our twenty square feet of water then it would have been considered poaching or tresspassing. That was the deal breaker! I don't think i'm quite over that one yet.

[frozengator]

I also have been told I don't need a licence to hunt geese or duck on my pond just a ferderal stamp. But I agree with rico I think it is stated in the rule book too about the inlet and outlet. If not, it was at one time. But now that makes me wonder about hunting on my pond if it did have and inlet and an outlet. What would the law be in that case???

[rico]

I also have been told I don't need a licence to hunt geese or duck on my pond just a ferderal stamp. But I agree with rico I think it is stated in the rule book too about the inlet and outlet. If not, it was at one time. But now that makes me wonder about hunting on my pond if it did have and inlet and an outlet. What would the law be in that case???

Cant shoot across property lines if the body of water has different owners.

[cmoore09]

Elaborate a little further.

Ok here is a scenario... 4 people own property surrounding a private lake.  Person A on his deed owns beside the lake and his property line runs directly through the lake chopping off over 60%.  Legally the other owners (who own up to lake front) do not have rights to cross onto his section unless given permission.  Where as all public (and most private) lakes if you get on the water, you can go anywhere the water takes you.  I learned this summer and confirmed with our local C.O. 

[chevy hillbilly]

Rico, since you seem to have a good grasp on this, i'll ask you.
lets say i own a private pond. No in-flow, or out-flow that amounts to a hill of beans.
can I...
fish with out a license?
Alow others to fish without a license?
do i have to follow state size and bag limits?
what in regards to exotic and endangered species?(minnows, couple of them for example)

My primary focus is on question #4, for obvious reasons. Just always wondered how that would shake out.

[Jigmup]

I predict this very issue will be at the forefront of some extended legal battles in the near future. The process is already in motion. Big brother wants your water, and since every BOW will overflow from time to time, quite possibly into a creek, river, or drainage ditch somewhere downstream which is publicly owned and controlled by the state, they will use this to their advantage.

In some states Its illegal to catch and store rain water....Big Brother is getting out of hand!

[rico]

Rico, since you seem to have a good grasp on this, i'll ask you.
lets say i own a private pond. No in-flow, or out-flow that amounts to a hill of beans.
can I...
fish with out a license?
Alow others to fish without a license?
do i have to follow state size and bag limits?
what in regards to exotic and endangered species?(minnows, couple of them for example)

My primary focus is on question #4, for obvious reasons. Just always wondered how that would shake out.

The private lakes here fall under your scenario.  You don't need a license.  Others can fish without a license.  Nobody has to follow any bag or size limits.  The last one I honestly aint sure about, but my gut tells me as long as the species was obtained legally or you have proper permits to obtain it you can do with it as you want.

[rico]

Ok here is a scenario... 4 people own property surrounding a private lake.  Person A on his deed owns beside the lake and his property line runs directly through the lake chopping off over 60%.  Legally the other owners (who own up to lake front) do not have rights to cross onto his section unless given permission.  Where as all public (and most private) lakes if you get on the water, you can go anywhere the water takes you.  I learned this summer and confirmed with our local C.O.

I am still a tad confused by the example.  But any land that touches the water gives access to the water.  It becomes "free" domain.  Now the issue would be under your scenario hunting.  Property lines exist through water concerning shooting of firearms across said lines. 

[sprkplug]

Rico, since you seem to have a good grasp on this, i'll ask you. I'm not Rico but I'll chime in with my interpretation of current law.
lets say i own a private pond. No in-flow, or out-flow that amounts to a hill of beans.
can I...
fish with out a license? Yes
Alow others to fish without a license? Yes
do i have to follow state size and bag limits? No
what in regards to exotic and endangered species?(minnows, couple of them for example) If you purchased the fish (minnows) in Indiana, and it was legal for you to do so, then fish away. Bringing a species that is not native into the state, requires testing and permits. If the source of the fish you purchased has their paperwork in order from the state, then you should be good to go.

My primary focus is on question #4, for obvious reasons. Just always wondered how that would shake out.

My answers assume that the BOW in question resides completely within your property, and has no flowing water leaving or entering, that is recognized as such by the state. (creeks, streams, other ponds, etc.)

[bubbagill]

In some states Its illegal to catch and store rain water....Big Brother is getting out of hand!

Amen.  I will second Big Brother is out of hand.  Hold on boys its going to  be a rough ride.

[rico]

My answers assume that the BOW in question resides completely within your property, and has no flowing water leaving or entering, that is recognized as such by the state. (creeks, streams, other ponds, etc.)

Your answers are exactly what I would have said.

[jdm]

I predict this very issue will be at the forefront of some extended legal battles in the near future. The process is already in motion. Big brother wants your water, and since every BOW will overflow from time to time, quite possibly into a creek, river, or drainage ditch somewhere downstream which is publicly owned and controlled by the state, they will use this to their advantage.

  But on the flip side, and I am not a fan of losing any personal freedoms from Big Brother, isn't this how the Asian carp in public waters started?I think I read somewhere that They were in private ponds that flooded, or did I misunderstand?

[sprkplug]

The story I hear most of the time says that the Asian Carp escaped from a fish hatchery during a high water event. I don't know it that's true, or if the hatchery was state owned or privately held.

And I do see the flip side.....if one of my dams washes out and releases a non-native fish into a public BOW downstream somewhere, I would consider that my fault.

[rico]

The story I hear most of the time says that the Asian Carp escaped from a fish hatchery during a high water event. I don't know it that's true, or if the hatchery was state owned or privately held.

And I do see the flip side.....if one of my dams washes out and releases a non-native fish into a public BOW downstream somewhere, I would consider that my fault.

If you have the proper permits you can raise mountain lions on your property.  But if one of those cats escapes and tears a kid to pieces it is up to you on the liability end.

Great discussion fellas.

[jdm]

Hows your ice Rico? I think I am on Tue, Wed at latest