Live bait ban?

[Jig Master]

Turnbuckle
you sure are throwing alot of knives around for some one who has made all of eight post you sound like you may be one of them DDAS members masquerading as a Ice fisherman again.

But if your the concerned sport that you claim to be, answer me this why is it that Maine who has allowed Bait since the beginning of time on these ponds, still have 90% of all Brook Trout in the Country. Seems you and others want to fix something that isn't broke. The next question is what has SAM or more Specifically George Smith done to help out Ice fishing or promote it, cant think of any thing can you.

What's wrong with some Ice fishing only waters! why should we have to share with every one else after all the precedence is there with FFO and ALO waters why not some Ice only waters.

The Facts are simple on this one we were lied too! first it was
just 39 waters now it is over 300. you want some waters that will be effected by this how about Chesuncook, Chamberlain, Eagle, Moosehead  just to name a few
these are all on the so called B list, and all are open to Ice Fishing!!! I'm told by people in Sam that up next will be a yet to be determined C list

Jig Master  

[Butch Moore]

I don't think we are that naive that you can come over and try to convince us that a bunch of fly fisherman are sitting around trying to strangle us with our traps.

Turnbuckle, go back and read what these people have said for yourself.  If you choose to stick your head in the sand afterwards, so be it.  I'm not sure I'd call that naive though...perhaps someone else can come up with a word for it. 

What's wrong with some Ice fishing only waters! why should we have to share with every one else after all the precedence is there with FFO and ALO waters why not some Ice only waters.

I LIKE IT!!!!! 

[JimP]

OK Turnbuckle,

So if I use your logic, and I do two good deeds before I kick my dog I should be commended for it? That is nuts. Bad is bad and should be called bad. You say it is six waters, no problem. Unless it is the water you fish on then it is a total ban for you. No? If SAM does something good I will praise them, when they go off the reservation I will oppose them. Do you deny an ever increasing number of waters are listed each year and a new bill each year is proposed.

Have you ever seen the MIAA propose a closing of a water body during the summer because of the danger of milfoil? As a means to improve ice fishing. Can't say as I have ever seen such a thing. Will we in the future?

The funny part is then you called Butch Moore out as a troll, and it looks like your sole purpose to being here seems to be to attack and discredit him. So who are you? What is your stake in this? Little of the pot calling the kettle black there, my friend? At least he speaks for himself and doesn't hide behind an ever increasing number of screen names.

You talk about the ice shanty members being smart, I agree most of them are smart enough to stay away from this one. All anyone has said in this thread is that ice fisherman should be on guard, there is another proposal to limit ice fishing and ice fishing opportunity. Spin it anyway you want. I like mine with a swirl...

[Loves To Fish]

Wow,
        If jigmaster is right and some of our big name waters are being threatened with bait closures, there's going to be a big uprising at the public hearing. Can't wait to get the listing for what waters are being targeted.

[jacksmelt71]

i agree. keep us posted guys . ill jump on the bandwagon when there is something definite to act on. i agree that many times icefishermen get the leftovers after the summer fishermen get thiers. has mostly to do with the out of staters that fish here in the summer. thats where the moneys made for the state. 99percent of ice fishermen are locals.

[dadstacklebox]

A list of waters were the last of the "native brooky's" are. WOW, WHY, Isn't that secret info?  Who wants to know? Spending millions to find out? Why? 

[Jigga]

What next....a cap on the number fishing licenses issued   That will do the trick right?

[Butch Moore]

Jigga, don't give them any ideas!!! 

[billditrite]

quite honestly i feel if they want to truly protect native stocks then they should competely close the most productive waters to fishing all together.  then you will have all of maines sportsman protecting the trout , not just the ones perceived to do the most damage.

[Butch Moore]

quite honestly i feel if they want to truly protect native stocks then they should competely close the most productive waters to fishing all together.  then you will have all of maines sportsman protecting the trout , not just the ones perceived to do the most damage.

If they did that, it would certainly seem much more like true conservation instead of class warfare.

[Ice Time]

Let’s not make this about class warfare. Let’s get the facts before we jump to conclusions about this bill and start fighting with each other, sportsman against sportsmen.
Turnbuckle is right Butch and his crew do have a reputation of constantly trying to divide sportsmen. I hate seeing twisted information constantly used to 
pit>>>
Ice fishers against open water fishers.
Ice fishers against SAM
Bait fishers against spin fishers
Spin fishers against fly fishers
Bass fishers against trout fishers
Catch and release fly fishers against catch and kill fly fishers
Mainers against people from away.
Locals against other Mainers
Rednecks against elitists.
SAM against TU.
TU against kids.
Fishermen and hunters against guides and outfitters.
And on and on and on.
We fishermen have to worry more about ourselves ruining what we have than PETA or other ANTIS if we constantly try to divide ourselves. Lets get the facts and then decide what’s right and what’s not.

[Bluefinforme]

can you striper guys imagine not being able to live-line in the Spring?......I think I would kill myself

[Butch Moore]

Turnbuckle is right Butch and his crew do have a reputation of constantly trying to divide sportsmen.

Hardly.  If you look back through this very thread, you'll see that I have pointed out what other people have said about a divide that already exists.  The people who accuse me of "trying to divide sportsmen" are usually the ones doing the dividing. 

Perhaps my signature here is difficult to read, so I'll post it here in larger letters:

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Ben Franklin

In other words, we all need to work together to keep our outdoor traditions alive.  Not everyone has been doing that though, and some are willing to sacrifice something they don't do (ice fishing, bear hunting, ATV riding, snowmobiling, etc.) to further their own pursuits, or as an appeasement to those who would take all our traditions away from us.

The first step in curing a problem is identifying it.  Of course if you don't want it cured, you can sit back and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Ice Time]

you want some waters that will be effected by this how about Chesuncook, Chamberlain, Eagle, Moosehead  just to name a few these are all on the so called B list, and all are open to Ice Fishing!!!

I just saw the B list on anuther board neither MOOSEHEAD or CHESUNCOOK is on it???

I want to see the TRUE facts not the ones that get changed to fit the theroy!

[Butch Moore]

As I understand it, there are several "B" lists out there.  I'm trying to confirm right now which list is "the" list.  SAM has sent me to IF&W, and IF&W has sent me back to SAM.  Go figure...

Regardless, it is FACT that we were told a short while ago that it was "only 35" waters that this would be happening to, and now it's 300. 

[Ice Time]

Regardless, it is FACT that we were told a short while ago that it was "only 35" waters that this would be happening to, and now it's 300. 

I’ve been told that there are about 300 on the B list.  I‘ve also been told that this bill would affect about 80 of them.  I just would like to see the TRUE facts before I get half-cocked and try to divide SAM and DIF&W and ice fishermen. 

[Butch Moore]

Ice Time, you misunderstand.  We were told originally in this very thread, just this past August, that there were only 35 (or 39) waters, and that was it.  Now it's 300:

THE "B" List

I haven't had time to go through the entire list to compile how many waters will change for ice fishing.  But, we see here that just because a water is closed to ice fishing now, doesn't mean it can't be opened up again soo, so long as some "special" desigantion prevents it:

http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=40869.0

[JimP]

It looks like there are different lists being circulated. I have personally seen three.  Ice time why can't you stick to the facts as you claim you want to and quit trying to shoot the messanger. Butch Moore is not the problem. From what I have seen he is not out trying to devide fishermen and sporting groups.

What I have observed is his consistant stance against so called PFA's attempting to restrict activities they do not take part in or have the normal interest in. It seems that you are using the same playbook as turnbuckle. Are you two affiliated.

I agree, lets stick to the facts...

From the list...

Eagle Lake
Chandler
Machias Lake (Big and Little)
Chamberlain
Brassua
Spencer

Unless I miscounted I see 45 waters that currently allow icefishing with bait, no small number.

[Ice Time]

I haven't had time to go through the entire list to compile how many waters will change for ice fishing.

Butch
By all means compile a TRUE list and we shall see the TRUE facts 
I don’t misunderstand. I know for a fact I haven’t seen the TRUE FACTS.

It seems that you are using the same playbook as turnbuckle. Are you two affiliated.

Jim

I have no idea who Turnbuckle is But I do know you are "affliated" with Butch as you are/were his moderator on his board.

I agree lets stick to the facts not insinuation in order to divide.

[Butch Moore]

For those of you who have problems with viewing .pdf files, here it is in html:

http://www.neoutdoorvoice.com/TheBlist.html

[JimP]

Ice Time,

Thanks for the laugh, you may have the scoop of the century.. I don't think I make a secret out of who I am do I? I have my picture to my left. I use most of my real name. I write an occasional sporting article where my last name is published.. Everybody knows that, don't they? Does all that that mean I can't have an oppinion?

You must have missed the link to the list where they propose to restrict 40 - 45 waters that currently allow ice fishing with live bait. You want the truth? Follow the link and seek the truth... The truth is out there... Are you sure you can handle the truth?  just kidding

I am not trying to divide anyone Ice, just the opposite... I'll make no bones that my desire is UNITE Ice Fisherman against those that would ban, restrict and sacrifice our sport in a misguided attempt to improve their own fishing opportunities.

Let's not get nasty here... Let's discuss the stuff openly and honestly.

[Butch Moore]

Butch
By all means compile a TRUE list and we shall see the TRUE facts 

You have the TRUE list and the TRUE facts right now.  You already know that one lake is being put forth this year to be opened for ice fishing that wasn't before from the link to this site.  You also know that special classifications enacted by the legislature are more difficult to change than those made through the rule making process.  And you know that we just went through the rule making process in August/September on this very issue.

Draw your own conclusions.

PS:  I don't know who you are, who you're affiliated with, and I really don't care.  I'm not sure I understand why you do?  I'm also not sure I understand why you don't want to consider all the waters affected instead of only those affecting ice fishing?  Should we not be uniting instead of dividing?

[Ice Time]

Let's discuss the stuff openly and honestly

Should we not be uniting instead of dividing?

Maybe I haven't been clear-but I could have sworn this is what I've been saying.

Lets look at the facts and all work together. By "ALL" what I mean is ice fishermen SAM and D&IFW -not a"ALL" ice fishermen pitted against D&IFW and SAM.  I've got to go- maybe we can work together later.

[Butch Moore]

Ice, why not unite all fishermen, including ice fishermen, spin fishermen, fly fishermen, bait fishermen, and so on?  I'm sure many people who post here fish during the open water season as well as on the ice - I know I do.  Then we could move on to all outdoor enthusiasts, instead of smaller and smaller subsets that can easily be pitted against one another in an attempt to push some other sort of agenda, as is apparently happening right now.  That would truly be united, wouldn't it?

[JimP]

Icetime,

You said...

By "ALL" what I mean is ice fishermen SAM and D&IFW -not a"ALL" ice fishermen pitted against D&IFW and SAM.

That is exactly what I am saying, I may have lost that part of your message burried in the barbs aimed at Butch Moore. For that I apologize. To clarify, I am not against DIF&W. Jeez, most of the time I am accused of being a apologist for the department. As to SAM? I think they may be the ones pushing for this ban?

I admit that has me perplexed.  I can't figure out for the life of me why SAM - FIC would be a part of this...

Icetime I would be interested to hear your thoughts after you have had time to review the list.

Merry Christmas to ALL!!!

[msh]

There are in fact at least 3 lists of B waters.  It appears that the list of waters now being considered in the legislation is List B, Appendix 2.  This is the list that was cobbled together from other previous B lists and it is the one that was used in the creation of LD 1131, also known as the Heritage Fish bill.  This list was created by a Committee of 5 persons:  they are John Boland,  Dennis McNeish, Chandler Woodcock, Jeff Levesque, and Greg Ponte.  From what I see in this committee, we have 2 IFW Bios and 3 TU members.  IMHO, I have serious concerns about this entire process and think that General law open water fishermen and ice fishermen were excluded from the decision making process. 

That is my largest concern and the fact that this committee was created by a Legislative act and the Standing Committee for IFW, IFW, SAM, and other activist groups failed to consider representation from other large groups of sportsmen (that would take the brunt of the changes) is disturbing. 

There is serious problems with this entire Heritage Bill and the big losers are Icefishers and Regular fishermen.

[fshnfool]

revised on 12/19/06....new list of waters where live bait is illegal   

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/pdf/nobaitstoratewaters.pdf

[oldfox]

revised on 12/19/06....new list of waters where live bait is illegal   

"TO STORE OR HOLD LIVEBAIT AT ANY TIME" .......I don't believe this is the same as "fishing with"   

[JimP]

I can't get that link to open fshnfool

[fshnfool]

 

"TO STORE OR HOLD LIVEBAIT AT ANY TIME" .......I don't believe this is the same as "fishing with"  

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/fishing/bait.htm

  

this was copied from that same page.....

H. Possession of live bait. It is illegal to store or hold live bait in any water where the use or possession of live bait is prohibited during either the entire ice fishing or the entire open water fishing season. This also includes waters restricted to the use of artificial lures only during the ice fishing season and waters restricted to fly fishing only or artificial lures only during the open water fishing season.

See list of waters where it is illegal to store or hold live bait at any time. (PDF)
http://www.maine.gov/ifw/pdf/nobaitstoratewaters.pdf