A Rod Awakening!

[slipperybob]

The Original Premium Ice Rod

For the short time I've been ice fishing...for like twenty years or so of ice fishing.  I use to be of the opinion where, any cheap rod will catch just as much fish as any expensive rod.  While that opinion hasn't truly changed, what's changed was me from using any cheap rod to using that of a premium rod.  Yes, I did started with the cheapest of the cheap rods.  Your dowel with nails and tip section of a rod, but even before that it was the beverage can with some fishing line on it.  Yes the beverage can has rusted and has been tossed away since then.  I moved up to the telescoping travel rod and I only extended the first two top section.  That worked on a cumbersome way.

Finally moved onto the Ugly Stick ice fishing rods and St. Croix Premiere Ice rods.  Cheap and easily affordable considering they were on sale for about $10 a piece.  After using for a few seasons I find myself preferring a reel seat over that of the tennessee handles.  Yes the tennessee handles were lighter but bigger fish always puts that flex into the entire system that gives a slight detachment feeling.

There came a time when I finally decided that I needed a better rod.  This decision only came with the results from missed fish strikes, loss of fish just a few feet from pulling up the hole to even a few inches of just having fish at the surface.  I admit it was online, that I heard about Thorne Bros Rods.  After years of reading online testimonies I finally went to look into it.  Went to the The Fly Angler's Shop - Thorne Bros. and took a peak at their rods.  At the time ice rods were short and a 28" rod was considered long.  Still I wanted a longer rod, so I settled on one of the very few 32" rods out there.  It had to be a tennessee handle.  I got myself a set of Perch and Panfish Sweethearts.  Good price too at that time, I paid just above $50 each.

The first time I fish these rods, there was a complete change in my fishing techniques.  I actually had a jigging technique applied.  There was that much difference and that much control.  The first few fish I caught, there was a very definitive feel with a fish on.  I felt as if I had the extended feeling of knowing when to turn a fish or when the fish was running or being reeled in by me.  It was a complete game changer.  Yes, I still passed this on a a fluke.  There was again that obvious feeling of some disconnection when I caught bigger fish with the tennessee handles.  Even with an aggressive tape job, the cork will still compress and flex under some heavier load.

After a few seasons, I went back and order a set of rods.  One 32" Panfish Sweetheart and one 32" Deadstick, both of them requested with 4 inch handles and spinning reel seats.  On top of that, special request with added line guides.  These worked great and wonderful.  It eventually became that I used these two primarily as my go to rods.  It wasn't until a few more years later, did I finally made the transition over to using a bait casting reel.  The primary reason was I never liked the tip bounce from the rod tip while winching away fast.  It was less prevalent with big fish on, but little fish and easy winching was the distraction.

When I first attached a bait casting reel, it was actually on an Ugly Stick.  I paired it with a Shimano Coriolis 100E reel.  Somehow I came upon a Shimano Chronarch 50Mg reel on clearance at Gander Mountain and I took a chance on that displayed model.  I admit to putting thin 2# ice line on it at first.  Worked great but somehow when I'm not paying attention with cold stiff fingers, that line always sneaked beyond the lip of the spool and end up inside the spool shaft.  What a mess!  However when it was working great and fish bit on, it was almost too easy.  Properly set drag, proper positioned rod tip over hole, and winch away.  I never had fish come up the ice fishing hole so easy, so smooth.  No rod tip bounce induced from cranking a reel.  What is a true game changer was when I paired the Chronarch 50Mg reel with the Panfish Sweetheart.  I felt as if I've cheated on fishing.  It was almost too easy.  The jigging control.  The fish fighting control.  No matter how great a spinning rod set up I got, it is no where on par with the level of smoothness and refinement that comes with a bait casting set up.  This would never have happen, if it weren't for that customized Thorne Bros. Ice Rod.

It has been almost twenty years since that first Thorne Bros Ice Rod.  I have been on the hunt for a cheaper version from retail shelves that would replicate that rod but to no avail.  Thorne Bros. Ice Rods the Sweetheart series was the original premium ice rods and now I've come back full circle to them again.  With the rising price of many ice rods and the improved refinement of them to prices well over $100 a rod.  Going back to get a customized rod for less than $100 is really a no brainer. 

I had put in a request for a set of Perch and Panfish Sweetheart Ice rods 32" length.  Special request with Alconite guides.  I wanted one step up from the basic Hardloy ceramics rings.  No I'm not casting but just lure dropping.  Even though at times, one can almost feel the smoothness of Alconite ceramic rings vs Hardloy ceramic rings.  Aside from that, Alconite guides looks better with it's dark hue vs the greyish Hardloy rings.  When I got my rods built, it wasn't quite right.  The line guides spacing and count was wrong and short of my original request.  There was only five line guides plus tip.  It was somewhat disappointing, yet promising.  These were actually some really good looking rods.  They made the originals look bland and boorish.  The Alconite guides really made these rods look premium over my original customized ones with the Hardloy ceramics.  These are definitely version 2.0 over that of what I had.

I made up my mind, I have to really get a set made for bait casting purpose.  Once again a second request and a definite have to have the extra line guide.  There had to be six line guides plus tip for a bait casting set up.  I did not want the double foot line guides that typically comes with a bait casting rod.  They are a bit over sized to say.  Staying with single food spinning guides was what's working, so gonna keep that set up.  Now that they're back, it was time to make the bait casting change over.  I did a quick rod tip shake, as I do with any rods.  There was a slight feel with the added line guides indicating more tip weight. (Updated: to note that the heavier feel I was due to the wrong blank being built upon.  The Panfish Sweetheart was actually the Perch Sweetheart blank and that's why it felt heavier.)  I threaded the line through the guides and did a flex load test.  No line rub on blank.  Version 3.0 finally, a Perch and Panfish Sweetheart set up for light bait casting rig.

Again the most amazing thing about the Thorne Bros. Ice Rods Sweetheart series is the rod's ability to resist torsion twists.  When I slightly turn the rod with a flex load on the tip with line pulling downwards, the entire rod rotates but it does not succumb to the torsion twist.  All of the line guides rolls as if one is dialing in on it, and not lust the upper line guides twisting on the blank.  Even these small minuscule advantages makes the difference with fish controlling, especially when that fish is flopping right there at the surface of the ice hole.   That's one the benefits I've acquired from using the Thorne Bros. Ice Rods that didn't have with various other retail rods.

Now I haven't had any field use of these sets of newly finished rods.  I am still wondering how much of a tip bounce I will experience with a spinning reel set up now as well.  I wonder how much smoothness if I could feel from having Alconite guides vs Hardloy guides.  I'm wondering how easy will the fish controlling be?  I have almost identical set ups in both spinning and bait casting versions now.  It's almost a fair comparison to make going forward.

[slipperybob]

The Standard to Grade All Other Rods

For as much as it's a want vs need desire, sometimes it's buying the name and sometimes it's buying the standard to grade all the other rods by.  St. Croix rods are something that  is most people have heard of as they have made a name for themselves in terms of rod blank manufacturing to finished product.  In my opinion there's one thing that St. Croix does better than most others is line guide spacing on their rods.  This brings us to their entry level rods, Premiere Ice rods.  I still remember the marketing on solid carbon ice blank.  This is coming after the rod industry has begun to perfect tubular rods.

Now the Premiere Ice rods has been around for a long time and had undergone changes here and there to currently no longer being produced.  Towards the few years before they became discontinued they started to be assembled with a reel seat.  This was well after they discontinued the Avid Ice models, which were the ice rods with reel seats.  The best value about these entry rods were their pricing.  For years they held a steady retail price of $20 and bargain deals on them during holiday shopping, ice shows, and end of year clearance got them down to basically half off.

Understandably St. Croix has always seemed to be a slight power up in comparison to most other manufacture's power rating.  If one is comfortable with that, it would seem that most other manufacture's seem to have a softer rod in comparison to St. Croix rods.  I personally find that the way how St. Croix choose to produce their rod lengths in specified lengths was to my liking.  If I wanted a set of various power rods in the same 28" length, it was there.  It helps my style of fishing with consistency in rod lengths as I'm changing tactics.  The days of throwing your rods in the bucket and they all lined up to the same length was a slight perception of being organized.  The oddity in St. Croix Premiere Ice rods was that the power rating that they provided was not available across the board.  In 28" length there was a UL, ML, and M power rated rod.  When they introduced the 36" length there was a L, M, and MH power rated rod.  Although I can't confirm, I had always suspected that the weird power rated choice was sort of due to using one blank and merely cutting it to fit.  When you get a moderate action in the UL and ML and then suddenly broom stick action on the M power rod it does appear rather odd.  Also if you measure the rods by blank diameter and apply a flex load onto it, all three blanks measures along that same rod bend curve at different lengths of the curvature.  Then again back then, ice rods were merely tip sections from full sized rods.

The choice of light weight stainless steel line guides on them had always been in my opinion one of cheap cost of material.  I do like the larger size and the longer stems from their choice in assembly.  In a way that reduces the rod tip bounce while cranking the spinning reel.  Another benefit was better tip transmission since the line was more straight from line guide to tip.  I fished these rods for years and got the feel down.   In a manner of feeling, there are enough subtlety between a 24" UL and 28" UL rod in terms of my usage.  This helped me developed my jigging techniques.  When the L power rating model was introduce, it was the perfect step in between hat UL and ML.  Unfortunately it comes in only in the 36" length.  Again that oddity in how St. Croix chose that was very unconventional.  Yes, I had to fill that niche.  During field testing results, I came to the confirmation that longer rods, does affect the sensitivity of vibration detection.  I was slower to react to bite detection with the longer rod.  However I discovered for myself that the 36" and L power rod made for one of the best dead stick rods.

Now that these rods have been discontinued and essentially replaced with the Mojo Ice with a very different reel seat and a hefty price tag jump to $50.  The whole line up was replaced with the same power rating and lengths.  At the time of replacement there have been an expanded selection in more power ratings and lengths.  The best improvement that the Mojo Ice rods provided over that of the Premiere Ice rods were the two bait casting models.  The Mojo Ice rods reduced the handle length a bit and actually put ceramic rings on the line guides.  Still just two bait casting models with a very limited choice of MH or H power.

As of current, Okuma introduces their Cold Water Ice rods which are near duplicate of St. Croix Mojo Ice rods.  The almost similar reel seat and almost identical line guides is very complementary.  I will say that flexing the rods in retail yields one major difference.  The M power Okuma Cold Water Ice rod flexes and loads with very good function.  Again going back to the unspoken comparison how St. Croix rods are one up in power in comparison.

[Ice.rat]

SLIPPERYBOB I HAVE BEEN FISHING ST.CROIX LEGEND ELITE FOR ABOUT 7 YEARS IHAVE THEM IN ALL CONFIGURATIONS AND SIZES ABIT PRICEY BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THIS ROD IS THAT YOU CAN CHANGE THE SPRING ON THE END IN SECONDS WHEN CHANGING DIFFERENT BAITS.JUST MY OPINION BUT LOVE THEM.STEVE 

[slipperybob]

SLIPPERYBOB I HAVE BEEN FISHING ST.CROIX LEGEND ELITE FOR ABOUT 7 YEARS IHAVE THEM IN ALL CONFIGURATIONS AND SIZES ABIT PRICEY BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THIS ROD IS THAT YOU CAN CHANGE THE SPRING ON THE END IN SECONDS WHEN CHANGING DIFFERENT BAITS.JUST MY OPINION BUT LOVE THEM.STEVE

They are also great rods.  The best spring bobber tip set up.  I also fished the 24" UL model for a while.  The thing about them is, they're on average 3" short or so, because they're measuring the spring bobber as part of the entire rod length, as they labeled for information.

[slipperybob]

The Rod Awakening that makes one loses sleep

This is what happens when a requested customized rod gets built.  It was done to specified line guides, specified handle sized, a set of the best looking rods made yet so far.  Then come to find out, after pairing up with reels and line, just to get a slight off feeling.  The rod blank also looks slightly off, maybe just naked eyeing it wrong.  Add a weight to check the rod tip load flex and whoops.  It was built on the wrong blank.  The set of rods was built together and due to a slight distraction or something, it was then swapped between the two rods.  How terribly disappointed I am now.  I'm trying to sleep, but then find myself nerve wrecked losing sleep.

I need to go back and get these rods remade.  Already this was the second round and now I have yet to go back a third time to get it requested again.  Third time is the charm, maybe.

[slipperybob]

The Rod Awakening Version 3.1 remake

So I did get my set of rods back.  This time there is more attention to details and they look wonderful.  As a spinning rod these are worth it.  However it is my intention to mount bait casting reels on the rods.  This was a complete remake and not just a repair.  And this is where it sort of gets me on the load flex, there is now just ever a slight line rub with the blank just in one spot on both rods.  That's for a 90 degree load bend.  Still not enough to affect actual fishing and only would truly rub if I really load the rod with a big fish.  These are just for perch and crappie fishing so they will handle that duty very well.  Honestly I would've been happy if the repair could be done, as the line check on those two sets of rod were flawless with the load flex.  I would also be ecstatic if these new remade would've gotten the same results too.   Weird though as these new remakes did not have that slight heavy feel.  They feel just as light as the other two sets on the first request.

Now I sort of understand why there was a mistake in the rod makes on Version 3.0 and that slightly heavier feel that led to that.  As it goes even though the blanks are made to the specified action and weight, there is just sometimes a slight difference in flex feel.  The mistaken makes did have a slight crispness edge to them.  Well that will never be truly tested out now, those are gone.  I suspect...rods being built on the spline.  These current 3.1 have that slight softer forgiveness and that slight line rub on blank.  There is ever just a slight more flex forgiveness.

[slipperybob]

The question(s) to be answered.

I asked myself the question so if I'm asked that question, I would at least have a answer to it.  So the question is....

Why would one want a bait casting reel on a spinning rod?

Getting a light bait casting set up is nonexistent.  So light set ups generally comes only in spinning rods.  To make a spinning rod into a bait casting set up is also not ideal.  First is bait casting line guides are generally double foot.  Second getting to the single foot line guides generally also puts line close to the blank.  Hence there's potential for line rub along the blank that is not ideal.  Also as it seems that bait casting reel seats in general have added weights, weight in also the form of finding a filler blank to match up with the reel seat.  I am not casting with these, so there is no need for a trigger finger real seat.  As a matter of fact when I ice fish, all I'm merely doing is palming the real.

We are on the verge of new reel seats that are lighter and more choices nowadays.  Perhaps going forward, the market for light bait casting set up will become available.

[slipperybob]

It was an almost last minute decision anyway and I did a preliminary field test on at least the Panfish Sweethearts.  Version 2.0 and Version 3.1 got a few hours of testing.  My intention was also to test the Perch Sweethearts but the fish were on the small side.

Both are wonderful and I still used the original prototype sort of Version 1.0 to make the comparison.  It may just be a fluke or all in my head with any actual scientific measurements.  So I find that surprisingly the line drop from these rods with the Alconite guides were just smooth.  The slight impression of it's smoother than my original.

As so far as hooking up with fish, it was every bit wonderful just like the old original Version 1.0.  There were pronounced fish strikes and one could really feel the initial strike thump very clearly.  There were the silent strike and then one could feel the vibration of fish chewing or minor head shakes on the bait within a moment of the bite.

Again these were merely just small crappies and perch all about 8" in length pulled from deep water at about 35' zone.  I'm actually impressed with the sensitivity.

Now I wasn't working with light biter fish, so I didn't need to watch my rod tip for light biters.  I will still say, I don't miss the tennessee handles at all.

[slipperybob]

Is there really an advantage to a high dollar rod?

While in respect that would be a yes.  We all know when it comes to tools, the precision of the tool and the quality of the material used to make that tool is what it is all about.  There is a point of diminishing return, whereas it becomes cost ineffective.  There is also the point of pure extra detailing that functions only in appearance rather then function.  How then does one truly justify the dollar cost of a rod and it's functional merit in terms of performance?  The answer is not so definitive as it is variable with personal preference as well as personal experience.  How then is this applicable to me?

A little research into the quality of the materials and the components of a rod build is what we all need to educate ourselves on.  Stainless steel guides and inserts are economical and durable.  Line guide inserts made of ceramics comes with a cost as well as weight if it's of a heavy ring insert.  Reel seats comes with components that are added weight as well as the assembly of that rod handle. 

Despite all of that, the reel has more weight influence than that of the rod.  It becomes a balance aspect and personal preference.  The whole light weight of a Tennessee handle is basically lost after I attach a reel onto the rod.  Now I've got added weight and surface differentiation with different tape job.  Furthermore cork, will compress some while under heavy pressure.  I fished many years with the Tennessee handles and could not adapt nor adopt that slight off feeling.  I had to absolutely have a reel seat to secure comfort of my hand.

[slipperybob]

The Noodle Rod Experience

There really must be something to using a noodle rod the whole time fishing.  This is where I just don't get it.  I personally don't reach for the noodle rod as my first choice. Tools are tools.  They will work wonderful for the right situation.  As in noodle rods will work for those fish that are light biters that happen to just lip the lure/bait for a long period of time before taking it in where the hook has a point to something for a hook up.  This is where it's kind of a gamble, set the hook or wait for more of a pull with weight on it.

Now there is sometimes this expensive cost to some rods, while there are some very low budget build that accomplishes the job.  I only dived into the noodle rod after all the hype and I discovered that there were merits to it.  I started with the Shakespeare Cajun UL rod.  It was very cheap with oversized line guides and a synthetic foam tennesee handle.  I remember the combo sale came in at $10 and quite a plastic reel it came with.  Get it on sale for like $8 afterwards.  If it fails, that's not much of a cost for the experience.

I fished the rod mostly during the middle of winter where fish tend to be tight lip or rather have very soft bites.  It was something where one will see the nibble or possibly feel a change to the line or no longer feel the movement of a lure while jigging.  That's usually when I set the hook to either pull the fish a few inches or maybe a foot before they let go of the bait or find that a fish is stuck on the end of the line.  I'd say my success rate was something like 50/50 with hook up ratio. 

I am amazed at how small of a tiny fish I can catch with this set up.  Catching fish down to the size of a fishing lure, tiny small three inches perch can sometimes be a surprise.  There were also times where I am surprised at how big a crappie would bite onto lure and not move.  I could tell obviously when the rod loads up with weight and stays flexed with no bounce back.  Essentially I decided that I would put the rod onto a reel seat.  Pulling in big fish with an UL noodle has it's own merits.  I decided that I want a slightly longer rod length and the fix was to utilized an extension from another rod blank.  I had those old telescopic rods that I started out with, perfect project fix.  The finished project essentially got me a sort of backbone to the rod and a longer length.  It worked out wonderful.  There was nothing premium about it, nothing but plain practical function.

There is this movement towards soft noodle rod tips and going towards a quick backbone to a rod that I find a bit too much hyped up.  The movement away from spring bobbers as the alternative.  There is the niche of wanting to see the bite and wanting to feel the bite.  Something that spring bobber rods builds provide, yet without the mess that sometimes comes with the line twist wrapping up all of that while fighting a fish and sometimes happens right there at the top of the ice hole.  Not all fish that bite light are going to be slothful.  This brings me right back to the premium dollar ice fishing rods.  Those power noodle type, with the titanium recoil guides, even the rod with the titanium recoil SiC ring inserts.  Funny how I was told that wasn't necessary when I once asked about using better line guides and now years later they're promoting it.  I get, it's just an ice fishing rod when the market was still in the practical use era of ice fishing.

Now at present when the premium rods with premium components are making hype, the question of the advantage comes back to my mind.  I am seeing rods pushing that $100 zone.  Did I miss something in the process there when I was told it wasn't necessary to now it's the hype now?  I understand advantages, trade offs, personal preferences, and practical function.  There in is that personal preference that also comes with practical function that differs among all of us.  By now, I've already adapted to my method and found the practical function in how I do it.  I didn't see how the market for it became so hyped over it all.  There was a niche market that I didn't know was happening and it was there for a long time.  The days of fishing shows of booth presentation was easily out paced by the information of the internet.  Only then did I hear about terminology of power noodles and quick tips.  There are differences among the manufactures but I found out that the retail version from Jason Mitchell's Meat Stick was where the hype was spreading more so than ever.  I found myself obtaining one of the first run production rods.  I fished with the rod and altered my set up between spinning reel and fly reel set up.  I can't get use to the short handle that was just the reel attachment in function.

Overall I found the rod did what it was designed to do and perform for what it was designed for.  Although the rod itself didn't survive it's first season or was it second season of use.  The tip broke during transport while in protection too.  Perhaps the rough vibration from transport did it in, but the tip section was still just too fine. There was just something about having a noodle tip rod in function and a back bone with power in function that contrasted itself.  Nothing wrong but it was something to do with personally utilizing one's hold method.  People talk about rod balance as in full sized rod balancing.  People have pictures about how the rod balance and where the balance point of the rod was with reel.  There is something very convincing about what we all learn as the term of bro science.  In terms of real scientific proof is that all of that matters not, as soon as you put a lure onto the end of the line.  The entire physics and function of bro science balance is no longer applicable in a live balance that changing with input and output.  This comes right back to personal preference or rather personal input and output.

If said rod was lightly gripped and balanced in hand with lure and line, almost any fish bite no matter how light would be detected by either a visual acuity or a vibration sensation.  The noodle rod actually absorbs a lot of that and power noodle functions in much the same way.  Personal input and output with such a combo changes it all and varies between users.  We can all learn another person's style and apply it to ourselves, or we can teach another person how to use our style and apply it.  Personal preference and habits will overshadow and at times we always come back to our base or normal routines. 

When one finds something that works for oneself and it makes it all too practical, then it should be as it is to make full use of that.  At the same time the dichotomy of finding something that doesn't work for oneself, then why invest more time than necessary to find a use for it.  There is the experiencing part.  There is the hype of experience not withstanding.  There is the rod awakening...journey.  Does one find something that suits oneself in the end?  Does one settle for something after all?  Does one come back to something from early on after broadening one's experiences?  We can always change our mind.

[WALL E GATOR]

Awesome Awakening. Lots of good information on this thread. I have just gotten into Ice Fishing in the last few years and have went the cheap-o rod route n found I got what I paid for. Have been investing in better rods and they are so much better. I think I will probably get a Thorne Bros custom rod and/or a Tuned Up Custom Rod before long so all your information on your builds has been most informative. I have a couple bait casters on some big game ice rods, had not thought of putting one on a panfish setup. I have several of the Dropper inline reels on my panfish setups and they are not perfect but they work good for me. Again thanks for all the good information.

[slipperybob]

Awesome Awakening. Lots of good information on this thread. I have just gotten into Ice Fishing in the last few years and have went the cheap-o rod route n found I got what I paid for. Have been investing in better rods and they are so much better. I think I will probably get a Thorne Bros custom rod and/or a Tuned Up Custom Rod before long so all your information on your builds has been most informative. I have a couple bait casters on some big game ice rods, had not thought of putting one on a panfish setup. I have several of the Dropper inline reels on my panfish setups and they are not perfect but they work good for me. Again thanks for all the good information.

Thanks for your kind words.  I am just retelling how I came about to learning and discovering what has worked for me.  Everyone is different with their preferences.  I know one of my preference is Ugly Sticks.  I just like how the blanks work.  They're tough enough for a variety of fishes.  Best bang for the buck.

I'm also a sucker for St. Croix rods, but I ain't paying full retail price if I can avoid it.  I always look for the year end closeout deals.

[WALL E GATOR]

Thanks for your kind words.  I am just retelling how I came about to learning and discovering what has worked for me.  Everyone is different with their preferences.  I know one of my preference is Ugly Sticks.  I just like how the blanks work.  They're tough enough for a variety of fishes.  Best bang for the buck.

I'm also a sucker for St. Croix rods, but I ain't paying full retail price if I can avoid it.  I always look for the year end closeout deals.

Agreed on the Ugly Stick. I have one I use on my JawJacker n it works well. Have several open water ugly sticks to, can't really go wrong with them. I have a couple St. Croix rods Mojo Ice in a couple different weights. Nice rods and the UL one is good for panfish. Haven't got to a lake with big game fish yet so one hasn't even seen any action. Again great information.
Thanks

[slipperybob]

After fishing version 2.0 on the Panfish and Perch Sweetheart on the Stradic Ci4+ 1000HGFB reels, I guess I have found life for spinning rods again.  I sure don't miss the cork Tennessee rod handles nor taping.   Also it was for testing different lines as Gamma Touch 5# fluorocarbon and that Diawa J-Briad Grand x8 in 6# with Stroft GTM 5# mono as leader.  Knowing full well the difficulties with fluorocarbon on spinning reels as well as braids with ice fishing, I still gave it a whirl again.  Comparatively the 1000HGFB Ci4+ reels have a slightly larger spool that measured out to 42mm at the spool lip, it makes for a slight increase in a more robust feel for the reel overall.  If compared to a Stradic 1000MgFbB with a shaved spool that measured to 39mm at the spool lip, it gives a slight more finesse feel to it.

At first the line jump with fluorocarbon gave me trouble and using Gamma Touch once again reminded me of such requirement to feather the spool on a spinning reel.  Yeah after I got re-acquainted with that technique everything started to work again.  The benefit of a sinking line really helped out with that tiny Flu Flu jig again.  It was either 1/64th or 1/80th oz.  I wasn't fishing deep water, just at the threshold of 20' so I didn't really get to see the results where that 30' depth starts to create the effect of drag resistance slow down and make delays on fish jigging presentation.

The braid is braid and there again was always the initial water bubble sonar return.  Since I was fishing a more stiff mono line Stroft GTM, I kind of expected the results were less favorable.  However to my surprise the fish were much more willing to bite and it seemed non affected.  I hole hopped and the braid results were just as expected, ice formation came easy. 

To my surprise I'm finding myself giving a bigger hook set once again.  I realize that I've gone away from PE lines and using more nylon fluorocarbon copolymer type lines.  Without using Tennessee cork handles, there is a more solid feel and that may also contribute to it.  Maybe it was just the fish and they were more willing to be participations in this season.  Maybe it's time to bring back more use on the Walleye Sweetheart rods.

[slipperybob]

While by chance just talking about rod designs and mainly about why most of the high dollar priced ice rods have no reel seats, the conversation got back to who being the lightest rods.  While this makes sense from a consumer's standpoint of which manufacture makes the lightest rods, it's goes to actual weight in hand.  Sure smaller cork handles will weigh less than a longer cork handle.  Sure smaller rod blank will weigh less than a larger rod blank.  Sure a shorter rod will weigh less than a longer rod.  Wire frame line guides will weigh less than a ceramic insert line guide.  Smaller line guides will weigh less than larger line guides.  It all comes down to the final finished weight.

While comparing my minimal rod of two similar type, my old Tennessee handle 32" ice rods of Perch and Panfish type rods weighed in about 1.5 oz. to my finished 32" custom rods with reel seats and added line guides weighed in just shy of 2 oz. is hardly a difference.  Pairing with an ultralight spinning reel that may weigh in about 6 oz. weight nowadays, compared to about a decade ago they were in the 7 oz. or more in total weight.  Even using line on a fully spooled reel, there may have as much as .1 oz. difference in weight from a PE type line to nylon type lines. 

With recent minimal reel seat designs, like those from St. Croix Mojo updated in 2020-21 and using lighter weight EVA foam handles, they feel much lighter than ever before.  Gone are even the painted rod and showcasing a natural grey graphite appearance.  Not that I have bothered to weigh those rods, but I'm sure they will weigh in very light.  By chance I weighed in a Fenwick Techna Ice Rod 28" ML with the reel seat.  I took the reel seat locking nut bottom portion off and it weighed in 1.5 oz. while the remaining top portion of the rod weight in about 1.75 oz. to have the entire rod weighing in about 3.25 oz.  That's a rather heavy rod and it's mostly due to the larger bottom portion of the rod blank and all of the reel seat and handle portion.  There were a lot of metal parts used and decal butt cap that's made of metal that contains a lot of weight.  The specs on that rod is wonderful, but the entire finished rod is like holding lead weights in hand.  The updated Fenwick Elite Tech Ice rods of 2020-21 made huge improvements with lighter weight reel seats.  However they have different designs and limited those reel seats to the heavier powered rods while the light powered rods showcase only Tennessee cork handles.  The Elite Tech sure would weight much lighter than the more expensive Techna Ice rods to include the lighter reel seats on the Elite Tech ice rods.  Almost same thing with the World Class ice rods with only the long 42" rods in Medium Heavy power having a reel seat while the shorter lengths are plain cork handles. 

There seems to be a change coming and a lot of it are like just a foot in the doorway changes.  Again is this like marketing where they only want to bring about slow profitable changes?  Should we as consumers demand for the better spec changes now?  I wonder sometimes as I look past recent years of how much the development of ice rods have come.  Although I fished primarily with a bait casting reel on a inverted spinning rod, the form and function actually can be reproduced easily.  I'm still waiting for St. Croix to basically scale down their full sized rods into ice rods.  Just cut the length of some of their short panfish rods.  All the components are there already.  It's been a few months since I sent them an inquiry letter and they just probably glossed over it.  No response.  I sort of did so with Shimano and they came out with ice fishing rods in recent years.  Now who is going to really be the change?