Glen lake/commercial fishing/white perch thread

[stubborn1]

Oh yes.  We certainly need more regulation and more government oversight!  That's ALWAYS a good idea.

The license idea has already been studied and rejected by the state in the past.  The study showed that the state would lose money, so they scrapped it.

You can't fish out Champlain with rods and reels.  The inland lakes already have limits in place. 

If I have to deal with the hang wringing and the whining about commercial fishing, the I might as well add my 2 cents.   

[TroutWhisperer]

Can somebody that's in favor of this change please explain why?  That's the part I don't understand.  Do we have a problem with the panfish population in Vermont?  Is that the issue?

[Panfish hauler]

  Now I have to chime in. If you have ever sold or traded a pound fish for anything you would labeled a Commercial Angler with the States proposal. I f you are  KID that doesn't need a license to fish you would still need a commercial angler tag to sell fish.

  Another thought I have on this is if you have fished any kind of a fishing tournament or derby like it or not you are a Commercial angler.

 The State has been receiving data from fish buyer's every since they put the buyer's license in place but has failed to do anything with that data.

 One thing I know for sure is ALL fishermen are liars except for you and me and I am nit so sure about you so for the state to think that they are going to get any accurate data from fishermen is ridiculous.

 The selling and trading of hook and line caught fishing goes back century's there are records of Ethan Allen trading Wagons Salmon for gun powder when he settled here the Champlain fishery is strong and healthy any biologist you talk to will tell you that we can not hurt the Yellow Perch population with hook and line fishing. There is no Biologic reason for any of these rule changes.

  As Sportsmen instead of fighting amongst each other over what we choose to fish or what we choose to do with them . We would be much better served to work together to clean up our Lakes and Ponds and get Cormorant control back on track study's have shown that they eat 1.5 to 5 million pounds of fish per year out of Lake Champlain and as much as 75% of that is Yellow Perch 3 to 10 time more than the Commercial harvest.

  I also saw the word Ethics used most Commercial anglers I know have plenty of Ethics it seems that there are a few bad apples ( Commercial and none Commercial anglers ) that don't have any Ethics. The greatest saying I hear is its a free Lake I can fish where ever I want. Well that doesn't make it right the State forest is free to hunt where ever you want but most people wouldn't walk up and sit down 10 feet from you while you where Deer Hunting and say its a free forest I'm going to sit right here and hunt.
 

[pokholes]

Oh yes.  We certainly need more regulation and more government oversight!  That's ALWAYS a good idea.

The license idea has already been studied and rejected by the state in the past.  The study showed that the state would lose money, so they scrapped it.

You can't fish out Champlain with rods and reels.  The inland lakes already have limits in place. 

If I have to deal with the hang wringing and the whining about commercial fishing, the I might as well add my 2 cents.   

Agree Xs 2  Enough with government regulation period!

[keithm87]

There is no data to support that humans can't fish out the lakes, the reality is that we have done that with species (Salmon, Sturgeon, Muskie, Sauger, Walleye, etc.) before on the lake, some of these were environmental, but fishing pressure did not help the problem. Saying that hook and line fishing cannot impact the population is just as false as trying to argue that humans don't play a role in our climate. We are apex predators with tools that give us the unique ability to effect change in our realm.

While it is possible that the level of fishing currently happening is not causing a negative impact, there is no data to make an informed decision. I have only sold fish one time, but fish with a person who sells his catch each time we fish, not large scale, or even enough to pay for the bait, but there is no question of where the fish were caught. There is no real data being gathered to enable a proper study. The proper management of our lakes and streams is multi-prong. Yes we need to control cormorants, and lamprey, yes we need to get runoff and water quality in check, but we also need to take responsibility for our own actions, and harvest as needed in a sustainable manner. This IMO could/should mean quotas/annual max commercial harvest on native fish, and bounties on non-native species.

I guess I don't see the harm in the state trying to at least get an idea of who is fishing commercially, but like I said I think it should be free and as a method to study the impact. And yes fisherman fib, that is why you would have the buyers and sellers both report.

[tench]

I almost forgot to mention driving on the ice, giving out spots, and bait laws in this thread! 

Lots of good conversation happening though! 

[thefishingweatherman]

Of course humans have an impact on the waters they fish... On Champlain, probably the biggest impact currently comes from all the dams blocking spawning habitat, and poor water quality. This is why it's almost impossible to find a brook trout in Champlain, and salmon are pretty much all stocked these days. Pan fish on the other hand are far more resilient. When the salmon population crashed, it was pretty obvious to anyone with a fishing pole. With perch however, they have been fished continuously since the white man came, and probably before that too, and there's no evidence that their populations are crashing. There's just so many of them out there that hook and line "commercial" fishing barely makes a dent in the population. I don't think we need to tag every perch in the lake to know that. Harvests are robust, year after year. Maybe when I can't consistently fill a bucket in shallow water in April each day, I will start to worry, but we are miles away from that. There's a reason the state doesn't stock perch... It's not necessary. As for paying for requiring a "commercial" license to fish, I think that's a solution in search of a problem at this point. We already pay the state for the right to fish at all, through a "fishing license", and much of that money goes to stocking more sensitive species. I'm open to changing my mind should a problem arise, but there's no evidence that we're even close to that point. Oh, and what about the invasive white perch? Should you need a special permit to catch and sell those?

[shadylane]

Seems though I read somewhere about someone saying white perch stock up in the bays late winter and then follow the walleye up the rivers and eat all the eggs?  Wonder what would happen if we put regulations on commercially fishing champlain and cut the people targeting and selling these fish in half?  What would happen to the white perch population, AND THEN IN TURN what would happen to other more sensitive fish in the lake?  I bet an exploding white perch population would decimate other fish species numbers in the lake faster then commercial fishing would.

Also if the state were to institute some sort of commercial fishing and actually enforce it, and every commercial fisherman would have to fill out yearly paper work, licensed sent out, buyers reporting back to the state on who's selling, back checking those people.  Jeesh this state would have to add another division to the Vermont fish and wildlife, probably have to employee 30-40 additional people.  Guess who'll pay for that additional 1.6 million dollars in salary?  Yep just increase our taxes again

[Lavman]

The amount of fish the cormorants eat (mainly yellow perch) is astounding. I fully support cormorant hunting for population control.

[bootstrap]

my arms hurt from hauling a those white perch yesterday. I think I have a case of "perch elbow" going to have to file a claim with my workers comp.

[Lavman]

my arms hurt from hauling a those white perch yesterday. I think I have a case of "perch elbow" going to have to file a claim with my workers comp.

Have you seen the "Smitty Sled" thread in the equipment section? A man like you ought to have at least one of these capable of carrying a half dozen buckets or totes 

[flagfishon]

The Smitty Sled is the best thing ever.  I just made one the other day. I couldn't believe the difference.  Here is a picture of my girlfriend pulling my 180 lb. sled. http://https://goo.gl/photos/kHgd7SjBqQKSZ4zAA  She pulled it with no effort for 1/3 of a mile. 

[Lavman]

The Smitty Sled is the best thing ever.  I just made one the other day. I couldn't believe the difference.  Here is a picture of my girlfriend pulling my 180 lb. sled. http://https://goo.gl/photos/kHgd7SjBqQKSZ4zAA  She pulled it with no effort for 1/3 of a mile.

Whew! Making me feel a lot better about the weight of the box I just built for my Smitty....I think I came in less than 180#, loaded, but not by much! 

image upload no limit

Tench: How we doing with adding some more variety to your thread?? 

[dave b.]

If things slow down , I remember a few other threads from past years that got people fired up! 😎  how about we organize an Ice Shanty White Perch event. Bootstrap Guide Service can get us in a good spot and we can reduce the population of white perch and have a good time. Fill a few Smitty Sleds with perch and everyone goes home happy.

[Lavman]

If things slow down , I remember a few other threads from past years that got people fired up! 😎  how about we organize an Ice Shanty White Perch event. Bootstrap Guide Service can get us in a good spot and we can reduce the population of white perch and have a good time. Fill a few Smitty Sleds with perch and everyone goes home happy.

And don't forget the ice crawlers!! 

[lowaccord66]

good idea 

If you do that for too many years the IRS will operate you at a loss.  I know a few rod and reel commercial striper guys that were hemmed up after several years of operation at a net loss...

[tench]

Don't use a net you can't lose it! 

[Lavman]

Don't use a net you can't lose it! 

This here is one of the brighter bulbs on the string, ayup and we're proud of him 

[Panfish hauler]

  One thing that amazes me is that the commercial fishermen don't complain about there catches and if they thought there was a problem with the fish population they would be complaining but they don't when they have a bad day they just get up the next day and keep trying new spots until they find fish that want to bite it seems work pretty good for us instead of getting on the computer and complaining there no fish we go fishing all the time (SOME OF YOU SHOULD TRY IT)

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

Panfish hauler,

You make some excellent points...I could not agree more with your posts.

[keithm87]

From a historical perspective I would say that panfish hauler is completely wrong. Commercial fishers and hunters are the last to admit there is a problem, they will continue to exploit a resource until it is gone, less people will do it as the hauls decrease, but they won't be the first ones lining up asking the state to shut them down for sure. It happened with the passenger pigeon, it happened with the buffalo, beavers, and many other species. That said I work 5-6 days a week, and don't have the opportunity to fish every day to find the fish, I fish almost every day i have off and get on the ice by sun up and am the last car in the lot most days that I fish, but if I strike out I don't complain about the lack of fish. I don't perch fish for the most part as I don't eat fish and perch jerking doesn't really interest me, but the fishery as a whole is dependent all the species, and perch are an important part of the ecosystem. I don't think that there is any reason to oppose a law or regulation that hasn't been announced or explained yet. Disagreeing with something that no-one has seen yet is just not very logical.

[spot]

The way to keep commercial fishing off bodies of water that can't support it is by setting tighter limits on those water bodies so the commercial guys will go to better spots.

I don't sell fish I catch, but I have no problem with doing so as long as it's done in a sustainable way.

[keithm87]

I fully agree, if it is sustainable I am all for it, but you can't say something is sustainable without data and study. Show the studies that say that it doesn't have an impact, and set some rules to keep it that way. I say have at it at that point.

[VTMatt]

If there were population issues I think the best thing would be to have open and close dates on selling certain species with invasives not having a season or limit.  Closing the sale of panfish close to Spring would not only save a ton of fish, but a ton of spawners. The guys catching 150 lbs of gills and sunnies before ice out are taking pre-spawn fish that are staging.

I dont even like to fish panfish in smaller bodies of water for the fact that I just feel better not adding to the pressure on those fish.  Im not for or against commercial guys, but the people making the REAL money off the fish are the buyers.

[bootstrap]

Have you seen the "Smitty Sled" thread in the equipment section? A man like you ought to have at least one of these capable of carrying a half dozen buckets or totes 

I have to travel light, small vehicle.

[thefishingweatherman]

I fully agree, if it is sustainable I am all for it, but you can't say something is sustainable without data and study. Show the studies that say that it doesn't have an impact, and set some rules to keep it that way. I say have at it at that point.

You can't really say something is unsustainable without any evidence either...

[stubborn1]

That's like saying we need to take tax payer dollars to prove a negative.  That's our state government.  They LOOOVE to do a study.  I'm not sure how you figure there's a problem Keith.  I mean, you worry about the perch, which are ridiculously prolific spawners, but you don't fish for them?  That's like me saying I'm worried about the Canadian geese, but I don't hunt for them.  I don't get it. 

[mudchuck]

As a reminder, laws always have unintended consequences...
In this day and age, not enough thought is put into this when a law is passed, hence the reason to think things thru long & hard before enacting something that'll wind up having ill effects once passed.

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

As a reminder, laws always have unintended consequences...
In this day and age, not enough thought is put into this when a law is passed, hence the reason to think things thru long & hard before enacting something that'll wind up having ill effects once passed.

You're right. Look at the bait laws.

[keithm87]

I agree but everyone here is opposing something that is speculation. There has been no public proposal of a change. There is talk of a possibility but we haven't seen it at all. IMO there is NO reason to oppose a change if it is to increase the tracking and reporting of catches. If the change is just a new charge with no plans to study sustainability then I would oppose that.