Author Topic: Anybody been out around Helena yet? (Read 10030 times)

missoulafish · « **Reply #90 on:** Dec 20, 2013, 03:55 PM »

The 20 walleye limit a few years ago was a direct attempt to prevent exactly what is happening right now to the perch. Walleye guys got what they wanted and now everyone is going to get a 10 perch limit or whatever it is.

HolePounder · « **Reply #91 on:** Dec 20, 2013, 05:07 PM »

The high walleye limit was enacted to quiet the F&G bios(TU members) and others(TU members) who were concerned about all the planter trout becoming walleye fodder.Now they are concerned that too many people are targeting perch,the alternative feed for walleye,less perch = more trout eaten.Their whole approach centers around it being a trout fishery,dont for a second think they are going to do anything that isnt geared that way,if they had a way they would eliminate all walleye and raise the perch limit back to 100.

spear1 · « **Reply #92 on:** Dec 20, 2013, 06:43 PM »

Well said hole pounder! You hit the nail on the head...

missoulafish · « **Reply #93 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 01:35 AM »

The high walleye limit was enacted to prevent exactly what is happening right now. They knew the perch population was going to crash once walleye became firmly established.

HolePounder · « **Reply #94 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 08:59 AM »

Sure it was,they used to have a 100 perch limit because "the perch compete with trout for food".Their whole plan revolves around keeping CF a trout fishery and doing whatever they can to wipe out the walleye.They didnt catch any walleye in their 'sample nets" this spring either (in comparison to past years) just like the perch,I didnt see any reduction in the walleye limit.....

missoulafish · « **Reply #95 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 10:10 AM »

Of course those CF is going to be managed as a trout fishery. Where have you ever seen any lake managed for an I legally introduced species? I'd love to see it managed
for eyes too. That being said, what are perch populations doing in all three reservoirs right now? What is the size of the walleye doing right now? What would the perch populations and perch limit be if the walleye had never shown up in CF?

HolePounder · « **Reply #96 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 12:23 PM »

The size of the perch in CF before the walleye explosion was dismal,there may have been more but most of them wernt worth filleting.Now 95% of the perch we catch are eaters,some closing in on the 2lb mark.Ill take todays perch over the 70/80s perch any day.Id say the perch in Cf are doing great,Ive never caught as many big perch while trolling as we did this year,not even close.They had one bad sample netting this spring,the numbers were off for ALL SPECIES,i didnt see them lower the walleye limit!Its the game they play,they cant get rid of the walleye so the do whatever they can to screw up a good fishery that isnt a trout fishery.We need some bios that can pull their heads out and realize not everyone has an orvis jacket and a filson hat,some people dont care for trout and want the F&G to support CF as a walleye fishery,we have enough lakes,rivers and streams in this state filled with NON NATIVE trout as it is.Ill take 10 jumbos over a bucket of dinks any day.

HolePounder · « **Reply #97 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 12:41 PM »

FYI missoula fish,F&G planted walleye in Lake Helena and Hauser in the late 40s-51,they were present when the finished the new Canyon Ferry dam,that was in 54....there was walleye in the water they were diverting around the new dam,from the new dam all the way to cemetery island.F&Gs theory of an "illegally introduced" species is full of holes.

missoulafish · « **Reply #98 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 01:05 PM »

All right dude. Your obviously the
Local expert arm chair biologist and conspiracy theory expert. Good luck.

spear1 · « **Reply #99 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 01:25 PM »

Awesome info holepounder!! Cheers to the walleye guys!

Catmaster5 · « **Reply #100 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 01:49 PM »

HolePounder · « **Reply #101 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 02:19 PM »

No conspiracy MF.I dont need luck,I researched the issue for a MT F&G commissioner who was trying to address the F&G's ignorance to the amount of people utilizing Cf as a walleye fishery.He even went walleye fishing with us to find out first hand what it was all about,they guy wanted to know what was going on and why the F*G was promoting the whole sale over fishing of walleye in the Missouri river system. He dug up the records on the planting the F&G did for me through the F&G fishery records.If you do some looking around of your own will find out the "facts" the TU guys are feeding you dont add up.
Its a fact the F&G planted walleye in Hauser prior to the new dam being built.If you can explain to me how they kept them all behind the new dam when it was built Im open to new ideas.if you ask me the "illegal introduction" theory is the conspiracy people ought to be addressing.The only reason they call it illegal is so they can rationalize their ridiculous walleye regs and netting operations.

missoulafish · « **Reply #102 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 03:19 PM »

HP, I don't care if they are illegal or not. We both know what the walleye do for the economy there and that the FWP is not going to have a proactive management plan for them.
Of course the size of the perch was dismal prior to the walleye...nothing was eating them so like every other body of water in North America, they became stunted. Introduce the walleye, start eating the perch and now we have a lake with nice sized perch on average. But we also have a ton of walleye that the average size on has decreased over the past two decades because they did exactly what they do in every other lake...boom and bust. All I'm saying is if they had kept the walleye limit high, there would be less of them but they would be bigger and there would also be a healthy population of perch. Not just a bunch of jumbos that don't
Live forever. We need to be able to make baby perch in order to get big perch.

MTwalleyehunter · « **Reply #103 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 04:26 PM »

The carp need commercially harvested! Period!!! 24th year on the Ferry. 97/ 98 was an epic year with buckets of perch and ling and we culled for big ones. Steadily down hill since for numbers. But nice size now. But we got them just as big back then and a lot more ling. Emerald shiners would be cool too.

missoulafish · « **Reply #104 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 04:28 PM »

The eyes eat the baby carp but they are only a size they can eat for a short time correct?

HolePounder · « **Reply #105 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 04:39 PM »

The point is that it isnt an illegally introduced species,their whole platform is BS.They have fed the public this illegal introduction line and the TU militia(F&G bios included) uses it to promote the F&GS eradication plans.I dont know how much you fish CF but when walleye catching is slow in the summer many target the perch.Less walleye to catch = more people fishing for perch.The only positive maneuver they have made was the xmas tree program,they are using the tree piles and there has been an increase in the perch hatch(thats straight from the F&G),but guess what,that makes the perch way easier to find all summer.I havnt seen a decline in the perch numbers over the last five years,only an increase in the average size we catch,but Im sure their 3 week netting survey is much more accurate than someones observations that fish's it year round every year.If you want to see baby perch anchor next to one of the tree piles of the South end(morning) next summer and drop down a small hook with a tiny piece of crawler on it,you can catch them till you get tired of it.Until we get the TU bios who control the future of the lake replaced some some more level head,unbiased bios nothing is going to change.They provide the data to the guys who make the rules and it is always skewed from a trout fisherman's point of view.Just like they no limit on walleye move they made on the Missouri river below Holter,absolute BS! Yes the carp fry grow so fast they are only walleye fodder for about a year,if that.

HolePounder · « **Reply #106 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 04:57 PM »

Quote from: MTwalleyehunter on Dec 21, 2013, 04:26 PM

The carp need commercially harvested! Period!!! 24th year on the Ferry. 97/ 98 was an epic year with buckets of perch and ling and we culled for big ones. Steadily down hill since for numbers. But nice size now. But we got them just as big back then and a lot more ling. Emerald shiners would be cool too.

You do know culling is illegal?

GOOSE_EGG · « **Reply #107 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 05:50 PM »

Quote from: HolePounder on Dec 21, 2013, 04:57 PM

You do know culling is illegal?

And I think he is a guide.

Chilled Feet · « **Reply #108 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 06:06 PM »

6 Hours on Holding Res today and no bites. Marked very few. Tried 20 and 35' Talked to others that were having the same luck as me.

MTwalleyehunter · « **Reply #109 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 07:34 PM »

Hey ever heard of catch and release. I guess I should have worded that different. Little guy comes up through the hole. Little guy goes back through the hole. Catch and release. Get it. Nice bite on Causeway today by the way. Couple limits of spotted devils and 7 walleye at dark. Two were said keepers. The others catch and release of course.

Quote from: HolePounder on Dec 21, 2013, 04:57 PM

You do know culling is illegal?

MTwalleyehunter · « **Reply #110 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 07:39 PM »

Ohh and I do know two things that will never happen on these resevoirs no matter how hard we try. Live minnows is one, and stocking of walleye is another. The trout contingency will never ever allow it. But deleting a million plus carp who eat everything in site. Could be a common goal between parties.

fishinwithbrittanies · « **Reply #111 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 08:54 PM »

Quote from: MTwalleyehunter on Dec 21, 2013, 07:34 PM

Hey ever heard of catch and release. I guess I should have worded that different. Little guy comes up through the hole. Little guy goes back through the hole. Catch and release. Get it.

Really not trying to get in the fight here at all.... I'll start there.

I have fished CF a fair bit and catch and release with perch in that reservoir is just about impossible during the winter with exception to areas of shallow water under at least 30 fow which, from my limited experience doesn't happen a whole lot. I'll go ahead and let the whole ice shanty community yell at me for this one but I was contently perching one day in about 35 fow on clear ice and when I walked to another hole I saw perch right below the ice that had gone belly up stuck against the ice. Now before everyone gets all crazy I wasn't ripping treble hooks out of fish that had hooks buried past the gills and chuckin them to be an a#$. This happened many years ago and I was unaware that when a fish comes up from to deep of water their air bladders expand and the fish cant go back down. ***yes I realize I am going to take lots of criticism for this but I was naive to this at the time and if I'm fishing in these situations now I catch a dinners worth and call it good***

What I'm getting at is that most perch fishing in the winter on CF ***from my personal experience, other experts with weigh in I'm sure***takes place in areas of at least 40 fow or deeper. Unless non conventional ways of releasing fish i.e. the hook sinker line method to drop the fish back down to the bottom ***(look it up) and lets not forget the puncturing the air bladder method** takes place the fishes mortality rate in a catch and release scenario has to be incredibly high. In that instance they might as well have limits back at a hundred because the fish won't survive.

HolePounder · « **Reply #112 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 09:00 PM »

Yep.little guy comes out the hole,little guy goes back in and dies a slow death.

missoulafish · « **Reply #113 on:** Dec 21, 2013, 09:38 PM »

There is a couple places I know that I can catch jumbo perch up to 14+ everytime. I don't fish them anymore because it is almost impossible to release them.

MTwalleyehunter · « **Reply #114 on:** Dec 22, 2013, 01:09 AM »

Complete nonsense. If you think 35 feet of water is deep you dont get out of Montana much do you. So here is a little trick. Ive used this on everything from Black Rock Bass, Macs, Grouper in the Bahamas and of course trout and perch here. So pay attention Hole Pounder I know its hard to get past your Canyon Ferry mastery, but listen grasshopper and you just might learn a little something. I use a little bodkin but the reef captains in Florida and Alaska use the actual tool or make there own. They swim away like happy little fishes back to happy little world.
Heres said link.
https://www.flseagrant.org/fisheries/venting/

missoulafish · « **Reply #115 on:** Dec 22, 2013, 06:54 AM »

Here we go again.....

They don't swim away like happy little fishes. They swim away with a hole poked in who knows what internal organ. Not the thing to promote if your a guide.

shawdawg · « **Reply #116 on:** Dec 22, 2013, 09:45 AM »

How about instead of sitting on the internet all day arguing lets get together on CF and catch some perch and walleye.

mt.perchman · « **Reply #117 on:** Dec 22, 2013, 10:20 AM »

Ok shawdog I'm in for a C F DAY. anytime after xmas.. oh I might know a spot or two...
Sure miss those tasty fillets.

.just got to get my wheeler ready !!!!!

I'm heading to kalispel for x mas. My daughter told me its visit time dad no fishing

.so I will be ready after that.

I will check on the swan on my way up. Looking forward to the jan. 25 fish and meet day.

lundin-loading · « **Reply #118 on:** Dec 22, 2013, 10:57 AM »

I've started to type a reply several times to the canyon ferry debate going on here, but each time I just delete them and move on, its such a dead horse topic that we have no control over that at this point I don't think its worth discussing...

Perchman! I'm headed up kalispell way Monday for a week...its for family Christmas but ill be damned if I don't get out fishing while up there!!

missoulafish · « **Reply #119 on:** Dec 22, 2013, 10:59 AM »

Anyone have any ideas on a spot to gather if we end up without safe ice on Swan?

News:

Author Topic: Anybody been out around Helena yet? (Read 10030 times)