Author Topic: Air Bladders (Read 4320 times)

Special · « **on:** Jan 28, 2013, 09:59 AM »

Air Bladders in fish. I've seen it done on TV shows in the ocean. Bring up fish from up deep. Sticking a needle in the abdomen to releave the pressure. Can this be done on smaller fish like perch, crappies, walleye ect? Anyone know or tryed.

wyoutdoors · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 10:21 AM »

The Bends Mender might be something you're looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyoe0jrZWvQ

jopes · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 11:15 AM »

I just stay away from deep water while fishing for walleye, while ice fishing for perch I will head deeper, but simply don't release them due to them usually having a very low success rate of living.

wyopro · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 11:34 AM »

Cousin showed me how to do this on crappie and perch that we were catching in 35 fow...needle just to the right of the anus. Works really well...

jopes · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 11:54 AM »

Little old, but from Ontario, Canada.

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@letsfish/documents/document/228130.pdf

jopes · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 11:55 AM »

This would be a good question for fish and game.

Houligan · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 01:04 PM »

Retrieving fish slower can help some. Most set the hook and zoom the fish to the top on small fish when ice fishing.

I carry a pack of small syringe needles to deflate the bladder. Was showed this many years ago by a biologist during my tournament days. Though I do not recommend just anyone trying it unless properly instructed as per the procedure. The biggest problem I see with this is cross contamination if not properly cleaning or using a new needle on every instance.

But yes it can be done...

Cheers!

Dorado · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 01:22 PM »

Trout and some other species can "burp" to let the air out of their swim bladders. Walleye, perch, bass and others cannot. Using needles to puncture the swim bladder and other devices that lower the fish back down may let the fish live temporarily. However it is becoming more clear that these methods are not very effective for the long-term survival of the fish. The pressure that builds up as fish rises to the surface can damage the eyes and nerves, which ultimately leads to delayed mortality. Just because the fish swims off does not mean it will live.

The best practice is to keep the walleye, perch and bass you catch from deep water. Move to shallower water if you want to release the fish.

rbmchief · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 01:44 PM »

Agree with Jopes and dorado on this one, if your catchin 5" perch and 11" walleye in 40' of water you may as well keep them because there's a high probability they're not gonna make it even if they swim away

gemcityslayer · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 01:54 PM »

Yep I never really bought into all the "bladder popping" and "fizzing".

Maybe I'm crazy for thinking it but if I was a fish I wouldn't want any punctures in my air bladder!

wyoutdoors · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 04:13 PM »

Damage the nerves and eyes? I've hooked a few "one-eyed" perch in Healy, and it has nothing to do with their swim bladder being "fizzed'.

jopes · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 04:52 PM »

What I believe that damage is referring to is the same thing a scuba diver gets from coming up too fast. But the fish do not recover from it since they are unlikely to go back down for long.

Houligan · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 05:06 PM »

Well being none of us are educated in, nor are we experts on the subject all we are doing is speculating.

Though one would think a fish could recover from this easier than a human do to the fact they are conditioned for under water existence and the pressures water depths create. Comparing the human anatomy in regards of water depth and its pressures to fish species might be a bit off base. Not sure recovery rates or the effects would be the same on a fish.

rbmchief · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 05:13 PM »

But wht chance it i guess is my question, even if there's a fifty percent chance the fish is gonna die that's just a waste IMO, but it is just an opinion, I sure would like to see some real data on it, I've had to take some fish home I didn't want to kill because I pulled them up from to deep to fast.

rbmchief · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 05:25 PM »

Been googling it all afternoon, having a tough time finding any real data on it, and what I can find is relatively old and not really backed up by facts, dang google is letting me down.

onice2013 · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 05:32 PM »

I wouldn't punch a hole in a fish to release anytime of year, jmho.. eat it or feed it and stop fishing deep water if you feel like catch and releasing.. many deep water fish swim swallow during winter months. Another way to avoid bloating a game fish's bladder is to reel it up slow giving the fish a chance to release the pressure as it is played up slowly. hope this helped answer your question

wyoutdoors · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 06:16 PM »

So is this considered to be a Perch Pro-Life or Pro-Choice issue? Ironic how many Pro-Choice folks want to save baby seals, isn't it?

rbmchief · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 06:20 PM »

I think a lot of us would just like to know if we're doing right or wrong when were trying to release fish, you know so others can enjoy it to, that was a total DB statement, imo

Special · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 06:20 PM »

Quote from: onice2013 on Jan 28, 2013, 05:32 PM

I wouldn't punch a hole in a fish to release anytime of year, jmho.. eat it or feed it and stop fishing deep water if you feel like catch and releasing.. many deep water fish swim swallow during winter months. Another way to avoid bloating a game fish's bladder is to reel it up slow giving the fish a chance to release the pressure as it is played up slowly. hope this helped answer your question

I fish the dead sea and its a pain. I try to catch one fish atleast and if that means going deep well deep it is, and trying not to kill the fish makes it harder to make it a fun day.

Houligan · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 06:24 PM »

Yet we stick them with hooks and release them all the time. Even foul hooked fish that might have taken it in the body somewhere. What about tagging fish? big game fish get hit with basically a harpoon and its all done for the sake of studying and the survival of the fish.

@Special
It can be done with great success but probably wouldn't try it unless well versed on how to do it. Just bring them up slower and don't worry about it.

rbmchief · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 06:30 PM »

I really just enjoy learning new stuff I didn't know before, hence all the questions about this, I'm not real big on keeping fish, probably just to lazy to clean em, lol, seems to be more and more really knowledgable people on this site and I appreciate the heck out of a lot of you taking your time to answer questions and concerns from people

Skipper · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 06:40 PM »

Here is my take on it.... I've been pulling crappies out of 60+ fow, and perch and walleye from 30+ for years.

A) Reel them in much more slowly, then cut that in half. Savor the moment, C&R fishing is about quality, not quantity. You have a pretty good idea if you are fishing for the frying pan or not. If the fish is going to be released, bring it up as slow as you can. It is good practice anyway, easy does it with really big fish on light line. Learning patience when pulling fish up may very well help you land the fish of a lifetime some day.

B) If the eyes are bugging out, toss it on the ice and eat it.

C) If it floats belly up but it's eyes are in, blow in its mouth. It sounds stupid... I didn't believe in it at first. But blowing hard on it's throat pucker seems to do something for them. I have been using this season and have been seeing really good results.

D) Shake the fish like it is a glass katsup bottle, give it two or three good jolts like you are trying to get katsup out of it's mouth.

E) If it still won't go, you can try the toilet plunger action in the hole. I usually just toss them on the ice at that point.

F) If you need B,C,D, and E more than a few times per trip, go back and read A again more carefully.

Those tournament guys just want them to swim away. Fish floating next to the boat looks real bad.... They don't give a crap about what happens to them from there.

Your experiences may vary, but this is what I've seen and done myself.

jopes · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 07:08 PM »

http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Fishing/pdfs/FISH_CONTEST_REQUIREMENTS20130003607.pdf

this is for tournaments, and in my mind if it is good enough for them to say it is not allowed during a tournament I am going with the don't do it ever.

jopes · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 07:19 PM »

Quote

(c) Any fish caught that is not to be counted in the creel limit shall be
immediately released to the water with as little injury to the fish as possible. Any fish
placed on a stringer, in a container, in a live well, or not released immediately to the
water, shall be considered to be reduced to possession of the angler and shall be killed
prior to being transported from the water of origin. No fish that has been reduced to
possession of the angler shall be released alive without prior written approval from the
Department.

taken from http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/Regulations_Ch46_July2011.pdf

By reading that. Sticking a needle in them, to me is harming the fish.

DeadSeaFisher · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 07:23 PM »

Here we go......

wyoutdoors · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 07:28 PM »

Quote from: jopes on Jan 28, 2013, 07:19 PM

taken from http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/Regulations_Ch46_July2011.pdf

By reading that. Sticking a needle in them, to me is harming the fish.

Devils advocate speaking here, but I don't read it that way. Guess that's why there are attorney's. "as little injury to the fish as possible" = which is worse; a needle poke, or toss them back down to hole to swim off and possibly die?

EDIT: Of course if you keep short fish and mention it here, or post a pic, you run the chance of public humiliation tactics and lambasting!

rbmchief · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 07:35 PM »

Hmm I musta missed that, I've never seen anyone get harassed over fish size or keeping them, I'm the opposite, I hate seeing the pics of the big fish that were kept $:-\$

jopes · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 07:45 PM »

Quote from: wyoutdoors on Jan 28, 2013, 07:28 PM

EDIT: Of course if you keep short fish and mention it here, or post a pic, you run the chance of public humiliation tactics and lambasting!

If that was the case no one would have posted any picture of the healy perch they have caught over the years.

bbkyle35 · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 08:18 PM »

http://lakersaver.com/

All you need. You can make one at home easily also.

gemcityslayer · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 28, 2013, 08:49 PM »

Quote from: rbmchief on Jan 28, 2013, 06:20 PM

I think a lot of us would just like to know if we're doing right or wrong when were trying to release fish, you know so others can enjoy it to, that was a total DB statement, imo

+1

I think the regulations are pretty thorough. I am surprised that the regs don't mention this specifically "yay" or "nay". It doesn't seem to me like there is conclusive evidence either way so it does make you wonder...I think I side with Jopes... I think puncturing any fish's air bladder is probably a bad idea and harmful. We are fishermen not fish surgeons

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Author Topic: Air Bladders (Read 4320 times)

onice2013