People went through ice on Budd Lake

[onice2013]

Every lake freezes and thaws at different due to road salt runoff, under ground springs the regional weather , depth/volume current/moving water/wind  and a few other factors like septic s  .. Basically, if a community records too many such accidents , rules must be made to serve and protect that community. The town of Budd lake could monitor the ice and use the red /green flag rule as the palisades state parks and sterling forest use in NY . We are only at our best when we have to be.

[delawareriver]

What happens when there is an accident on a green flag day? Sounds like a can of worms to me. Its the same reason ill never tell some one on shore is safe. Then ill be responsible if something happens. Ice recreation should be at your risk simple as that.

[onice2013]

It would be safer to use the green/red flag rule on Budd lake after such a tragedy. The lower New York state parks enforce such rules and they were not opened this season . But when they do open, they require no open water and at least 6 inches of solid ice before the Park rangers put out the green flag sign. Obviously the winters have been too warm and as much as it bothers me to have to drive further north in search of safer ice, I respect the green/red flag rule.

[Evil Tom]

So the green flag would make it safe and then if there was a accident the town or community whoever posted the flag is liable.Sounds like opening the door for lawsuits galore.Monksville and most other large lakes would never be open because of open water.Think about that if u believe a red / green flag is the answer.If people payed more attention most accidents wouldn't happen.A little common sense can go a long way,but you can't fix stupid.

[onice2013]

I am not in favor of it but, it might be a good idea to protect kids lives, perhaps every town district can work it out so ice fishermen who wear safety gear and use a spud have special permission, like they do on ny city reservoirs with special access permits for the sportsmen. I do not think underaged children should have access in anycase on any iced over ponds, lakes etc. without at least one adult guardian. This is an easy fix and what town officials are hired to figure out. Suppose it happens again? Will you agree after it happens again or blame it on irresponsible parents?

[bmxrider11976]

I am not in favor of it but, it might be a good idea to protect kids lives, perhaps every town district can work it out so ice fishermen who wear safety gear and use a spud have special permission, like they do on ny city reservoirs with special access permits for the sportsmen. I do not think underaged children should have access in anycase on any iced over ponds, lakes etc. without at least one adult guardian. This is an easy fix and what town officials are hired to figure out. Suppose it happens again? Will you agree after it happens again or blame it on irresponsible parents?

thats not a bad idea to have the kid have to have a guardian, but where do you make the age cutoff? 16? those kids were what, 15? it still is a responsibility of the kids issue. i was more than responsible enough at 16 to go out and be very safe on the ice. but other kids that dont know better may not be. i would have been ticked off if i had to pay for a fishing license at the age of 16 and i had to be escorted out to the ice by someone and couldnt go at my free will.  i just think it is one of those deals where either you shut it down and piss off a lot of people, or you dont shut it down and piss off a lot of people. there are way too many variables that come into play when dealing with ice and the only thing that can keep people more safe is education.

[Fishndude75]

There are peaple that fall down and die all the time,maybe we should outlaw gravity.Or maybe we should make it illegal to swim in the ocean because you can get attacked by a shark and better yet let's outlaw stairs because peaple fall down them and die too.I was allways under the impression that you went on the ice at your own risk.It was a terrible thing that happened to those boys that night.But why should we have our liberty's taken away as ice fisherman to do something that we have enjoyed all our lives because of what happened that night.Peaple have fallen through the ice since the begining of time.Maybe it is time that peaple take responsibility for their own actions and then maybe we wouldn't live in a world that the government has to play big brother because we can't take care of ourselves.It's easy for everyone to point the finger at someone else but it seams like nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions.

[LoneWolf]

It all boils down to a liability concern if someone has to state a body of water's ice is safe. If it is posted as safe they can be sued .. who would want to post it as safe then ? Simply leave it as is .. go out at your own risk.
As far as children are concerned it could be as I previously posted .. under 18 must be accompanied by an adult. That would hopefully prevent any similar tragedies and leave the ice open to ice fisherman.
I like the KISS principle.

[projoe]

some very interesting points have been made in this thread. I have not fished Budd Lake and have only seen it while driving to the pequest.  From my understanding the water along 46 does not freeze uniform to the rest of the lake. Is there an explaination such as a spring or some other underwater current? Or is it as simple as run off containing rocksalt from the highway?

[saxmatt]

Areas are kept open by wind, rocks and weeds under the water and the geese.

[staggerin]

You should be ashamed of yourselves for calling these dead children dumb. Yes it was an ignorant move that lead to their demise ,  but think about the family and friend who are most closely related to this terrible ordeal.

[onice2013]

Really, all I read so far are dumb excuses to allow (ignorant) adventurers risking unsafe activity on unsafe ice. Why are rules enforced anyway? Rules are made to serve and protect.. might as well allow drinking and driving or smoking weed and partying on the ice for those that know it all seriously, what will you say if it happened again this season or the next? UUMM, change the lakes name Budd lake to "Dumb lake" 

[Evil Tom]

Dumb excuses,really...now I'm ignorant...That's funny.The last time I checked this is the USA the land of the free.I just read an article outlawing,skydiving,motorcycling,surfing,skiing,bull riding,NASCAR,drag racing,atving,rock crawling,sailing,football,ice fishing,ice skating,alchol,and gun ownership....All too dangerous.Welcome to Russia enjoy.

[onice2013]

But this Budd lake tragedy must be a reminder that venturing on the ice lake is dangerous. So there should be more signs posted and perhaps a few more restrictions ONLY during warmer winters... no big deal .. colder winters  not many signs are needed, just during open water and obviously weaker thin ice

[delawareriver]

Signs are fine and should be posted no matter what kind of winter we are having but they wouldn't have prevented this accident.

[Gilawanna]

One of the kids who died last week in budd lake was one of my students.  I had him class up until last monday.  He was a real smart kid and extremely courteous. I went to his wake yesterday.  It's really hard to see a 14 yr old in a coffin.  RIP Clyde.

[onice2013]

It plain suxs, is all I'm saying, if at all post signs and educate the children. For those who been ice fishing many years to know better, I wish us all freedom under this "administration" My we all enjoy our Great American outdoors

[Ski Hunter]

I once had a guy ride across a small private lake on an ATV, only to ask me how thick the ice was. There happened to be five in. but I was still checking everywhere with my spud in front.  Basic education and awareness of danger (and, as mentioned above, common sense) would prevent most of these tragedies.

guys on snowmobiles do it on Lake Wallenpaupack here in PA as well as Hopatcong in NJ ALL THE TIME     My bet is most of the people who do it have NO CLUE as to what ice thicknesses can support what weights but have no problems going out on it without having the slightest clue as to if it can support them and their vehicle 

[acabtp]

budd lake does not need red and green flags or restrictions, just like with everything else in this world, people just need to use common sense and realize that ultimately they are the ones who are responsible for themselves.

it's sickening that the most common answer to everything these days is "there should be rules and a system in place to prevent this in the future!"... what ever happened to personal responsibility?

everyone remembers the "good old days"... remember why they were good?  there weren't a million people telling you what to do and people acted responsibly and when they didn't they were held responsible for their own actions