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Author Topic: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process  (Read 1435 times)

Offline PerchAssault

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If I\'m not fishing, I\'m probably thinking about fishing...And if I\'m thinking about fishing, I\'m probably not getting much else done so, I might as well go fishing...Yeah, I just said that!

Offline needin2fish

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #1 on: Mar 07, 2012, 10:26 PM »
This whole thing was never about the fish.  It was about one of the richest tribes in America wanting some more coin $$$$$$!

Offline MatCat

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #2 on: Mar 08, 2012, 08:42 AM »
I always gotta shake my head when they talk about gill netting or trying to eradicate a fish, especially Lake trout in all of NW Montana.  If they want them gone why do they have a daily limit and then slot limits in some of the lakes?

Offline Cornbread

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #3 on: Mar 08, 2012, 09:07 AM »
I love fishing with friends on that lake during Mac Days. I hope they leave it as a lake trout fishery and their netting plan does not get the go ahead.

Offline HVFD14

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #4 on: Mar 08, 2012, 09:26 AM »
Open it to spearing too!!!
  BE THERE!

Offline Neptune

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #5 on: Mar 08, 2012, 10:40 AM »
I'm in complete agreement with Bob Orsua!  I've seen the Mack Days data and talked at length with Barry Hansen many times.  The basis for their over all population of Lake trout is extrapolation of a base number of the entire acreage of the lake.  This is flawed to start with.  Lake trout don't live in every square foot of that lake...at least not at the population that they are using.

The Charter captains logs are probably the most valuable and accurate data that exists and it is consistent and historical at that, but CSKT chooses to look the other way because it doesn't show what they want it to show.

Netting is bad end of story!  Ask FWP just how bad it can be...we don't get to keep Bulls out of Swan Lake any more because the by catch rate the last time they netted that lake was almost 4 times the suggested rate and ended up that almost 1 in 3 fish in the nets was a bull trout!!!   Bounty's on Fish is the most selective and productive method.  It potentially creates jobs and keeps money in our local economies where its needed.

This whole thing gets my blood boiling!!!

Offline sra61

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #6 on: Mar 08, 2012, 12:36 PM »
I can tell you for my part, that our personal catch rates are drastically reduced. We don't have the luxury of being out on the lake every day so we end up hunting and pecking when we do get to go. I'd say that we catch maybe 10% of the fish numbers we caught just 5 years ago. We don't fish Flathead any more. I used to love to fish that lake. Some of my best memories with my kids were on that lake catching lakers. What really irks me is that CSKT figured out a way to get the white guy to destroy the fishery themselves just by offering a few bucks. How stupid are we? When we were still fishing Flathead we noticed that the numbers of Bull Trout that we caught also drastically declined. Strangely enough it seemed to coincide with bigger kills during the Mack Days slaughter. I think they are also killing Bulls with the increased kill. Of course I'm just an average guy, and this is all just anecdotal. One thing I've learned over the years, my opinion don't mean squat when it comes to MDFWP!

Offline RobG

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #7 on: Mar 08, 2012, 01:27 PM »
I get a "service unavailable" message. Which agencies withdrew support and who is running the show now.

rg

Offline Batanga

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #8 on: Mar 08, 2012, 07:14 PM »
After all we went through with the collapse of the salmon population 20 years ago with the FWP's introduction of the mysis shrimp, I just wish we could just leave this poor lake alone!  We have macks now (I miss the bulls though) and they are a enjoyable fish to catch...I'm just trying to say that I'm ok with that.  Please, FWP, leave the lake alone.

Offline PerchAssault

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #9 on: Mar 08, 2012, 10:08 PM »
I get a "service unavailable" message. Which agencies withdrew support and who is running the show now.

rg

Just over a week after the Confederated Salish-Kootenai Tribes decided to expand an environmental review process for a controversial lake trout netting project on Flathead Lake, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has withdrawn its support for the process.

The conflict came up at a Flathead Reservation Fish and Wildlife Board meeting in Missoula that was teleconferenced to Fish, Wildlife and Parks offices in Kalispell and Helena Wednesday.


 


At the meeting, tribal officials announced that an environmental assessment process launched in 2010 will be converted to a more exhaustive environmental impact statement process under the National Environmental Policy Act.

Rose Leach, the tribes’ NEPA expert, said she recommended the change because models in the review are evaluating a lake trout suppression effort that could last for 50 years, much longer than the term originally being evaluated.

The suppression work, which would involve the use of gill or trap nets on the lake, is aimed at reducing the non-native lake trout population for the benefit of native bull trout and cutthroat trout.

But the expanded review also was announced as the tribes prepared to submit  documents to a special panel that evaluates projects seeking fish and wildlife mitigation funding from the Bonneville Power Administration.

The tribes were planning to submit those documents by today to meet deadlines required by BPA, which has more recently allowed an extension for project review.

But Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks officials concluded they cannot support the proposed environmental impact statement in its present form.

“Please remove our name from the document to be submitted to the Bonneville Power Administration’s Independent Scientific Review Panel,” stated Bruce Rich, the agency’s fisheries bureau chief, in a letter to the tribes on March 1. “Our staff believes that the draft EIS, in its present state, is incomplete in both content and process.”

The letter states that the tribes have yet to provide the state — a co-manager of the lake — with a full draft of the review documents, yet the tribes plan to submit those documents for funding review with the state listed as a full partner in the project.

Rich said there is concern that doing so will make Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks appear to have a “pre-decisional” commitment to the netting project before the public has a chance to adequately engage in the process.

At the Missoula meeting, Region One Supervisor Jim Satterfield further explained the state’s reservations.

Only three public meetings were held for environmental assessment scoping in 2010, and Satterfield said there are questions about the relevance of those meetings to the new impact-study process, considering how the process has evolved since then.

According to “A Citizens Guide to the NEPA Process,” if an environmental review is elevated to an full environmental impact study, the proposal must be published in the Federal Register, followed by another round of “public scoping and appropriate public involvement,” followed by a draft environmental impact study and another period of public comment.

Barry Hansen, a tribal fisheries biologist, said the tribes aim to release a draft EIS by June, and a final study by September.

Satterfield gave several examples of where state officials believe the environmental review comes up short. An economic analysis that is required with an environmental impact study hasn’t been conducted, he said, and the state is interested in how removing 140,000 lake trout per year (under one of the proposed alternatives) would impact sport fishing on Flathead Lake.

The lake is one of the state’s most popular fishing destinations and a “significant portion of the economic engine of the Flathead Valley,” he said.

The state also wants an analysis of the expected benefits or harm to native bull trout and cutthroat trout from lake trout removal efforts. Netting, for instance, can lead to “by-catch” bull trout mortalities.

Removing lake trout may cause another boon in the lake’s mysis shrimp population, which in turn could lead to impacts on zooplankton and increased algae blooms in the lake.

Those issues and others are being evaluated in the final stages of the EIS process, Hansen said.

“We didn’t want to see the document submitted to the ISRP until it’s complete, and it’s not complete,” Satterfield said.

Hansen responded by saying that the review panel does not expect a finalized document, and in fact may want to make suggestions for a more complete document.

In a letter responding to the state, tribal fish and wildlife manager Tom McDonald said the tribes’ intent “is to get the best technical review of the science amassed for the NEPA document to date. We purposely want to obtain such reviews early in the process so they can be incorporated and better inform our decision.”

But those critical of the project from the beginning now question the willingness to accept information that may undermine it.

“I’m accusing them of cherry-picking” data, said Bob Orsua, owner of the Mo’ Fisch fishing charter business.

Orsua said those involved in the process, which he has followed closely, have shown no interest in catch rates of the nine charter businesses that operate on the lake. The average catch rate for lake trout has dropped from 14 fish per charter in 1995 to three fish per charter in 2010.

Orsua attributes the declining rate to the aggressive “Mack Days” fishing events held in spring and fall, which give anglers financial incentives to remove and kill thousands of lake trout.

According to tribal officials, the events have been highly successful and popular, but they have not been adequate to reduce the lake trout population to a desirable level.

But Orsua challenges that position, saying that a “desirable” population hasn’t even been defined; that’s what the EIS process is supposed to determine.

Chuck Hunt, president of Flathead Wildlife Inc., said he believes the economic impacts of gill and trap netting lake trout from Flathead Lake are obvious.

“It will become a dead zone” for sport anglers, he said, because the lake trout population will be devastated, leaving threatened bull trout that can’t be legally caught and catch-and-release only rules for cutthroat trout.

At the end of the Missoula meeting, the chairwoman asked if there were any public comments and questions. She took one question from Orsua, and then closed the meeting even though there were more people with more questions at the Kalispell office.

“This is what we deal with,” Hunt said, accusing the tribes of avoiding public comment, scrutiny and information that casts doubt on the justification for netting on Flathead Lake.

“They’re just trying to get funding from BPA,” added Orsua.

According to a website listing all of BPA’s proposed fish and wildlife projects, the tribes are requesting more than $3 million over the next five years for the suppression project, along with a variety of related population monitoring and native species restoration work.

Reporter Jim Mann may be reached at 758-4407 or by email at [email protected].
If I\'m not fishing, I\'m probably thinking about fishing...And if I\'m thinking about fishing, I\'m probably not getting much else done so, I might as well go fishing...Yeah, I just said that!

Offline PerchAssault

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #10 on: Mar 09, 2012, 06:49 AM »
Wildlife Mitigation
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BPA is responsible under the Northwest Power Act for mitigating the impacts to wildlife caused by the development and operation of the dams of the Federal Columbia River Power System (FRCPS). For each dam these impacts were quantified by an Impact Assessment using a Habitat Evaluation Procedure (HEP) survey to determine the Habitat Units (HUs) lost due to the construction and inundation behind the dams. See our Mitigation Program Glossary for definitions of these and other terms by the program.

BPA accomplishes this mitigation by funding projects consistent with the fish and wildlife program developed by the Northwest Power and Conservation Council (Council) and responsive to the Council’s recommendations for projects. Project proposals are submitted to the Council from Tribal governments, state agencies, property owners, private conservation groups, and other Federal agencies. BPA supports a wide range of actions to achieve wildlife mitigation consistent with the Council's goals and priorities. BPA strongly emphasizes the achievement of biological objectives in the least costly manner and encourages projects with an ecosystem-based approach so both fish and wildlife are integrated simultaneously with habitat protection and improvement projects.
 
Just as HEP surveys were used by Impact Assessments to determine Habitat Units (HUs) lost, the Wildlife Mitigation program uses HEP surveys are to determine HUs gained by mitigation activities such as protecting habitat through acquisitions/easements and enhancing habitat through weed control, fencing, etc. Habitat Units are thus the "currency" of the program's Wildlife Crediting "ledger" which tracks debits (lost HUs) and credits (protected and enhanced HUs). Impact Assessment and HEP report publications are available on our Search Publications page.

As with any other type of project, BPA assesses the potential environmental impacts of its wildlife mitigation projects before work begins. In its Record of Decision for the Fish & Wildlife Implementation Plan Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), BPA decided to standardize the planning and implementation process for wildlife projects, while achieving balance among all decision factors: (1) meeting the biological objectives of wildlife mitigation projects, (2) achieving cost and administrative efficiency, (3) complying with all applicable laws and regulations, and (4) protecting and improving other environmental resources when such actions would support wildlife mitigation. The Fish & Wildlife Implementation Plan EIS covers wildlife mitigation actions with potential environmental impacts such as land acquisition and management, water rights acquisition and management, habitat restoration and improvement, weed control, riparian fencing, and similar wildlife conservation actions.


Maybe someone can explain to me how funding mack days tournaments and the gill and trap netting of lake trout in Flathead Lake, to the tune of three million dollars, has ANYTHING to do with the highlighted statement above?

Thats the question I am going to be asking them, when I inquire today about exactly how much of my power bill goes to this funding...

If I\'m not fishing, I\'m probably thinking about fishing...And if I\'m thinking about fishing, I\'m probably not getting much else done so, I might as well go fishing...Yeah, I just said that!

Offline Neptune

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #11 on: Mar 09, 2012, 10:03 AM »
Can't wait to hear that answer Mike!

also it would be interesting to hear how netting and the tournament provide a positive HU...there are no land or water use improvements associated with either....

Offline Cornbread

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #12 on: Mar 09, 2012, 10:15 AM »
Is this something we could get our representatives in Govt to take up and look into? It affects the entire economy of the Flathead Valley and if they are monkeying around it might be time for some people other than just FWP to step and say "hey this is load of ..... and it needs to stop".

Offline fortybelow

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #13 on: Mar 10, 2012, 01:34 PM »
Wildlife Mitigation
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BPA is responsible under the Northwest Power Act for mitigating the impacts to wildlife caused by the development and operation of the dams of the Federal Columbia River Power System (FRCPS). For each dam these impacts were quantified by an Impact Assessment using a Habitat Evaluation Procedure (HEP) survey to determine the Habitat Units (HUs) lost due to the construction and inundation behind the dams. See our Mitigation Program Glossary for definitions of these and other terms by the program.

BPA accomplishes this mitigation by funding projects consistent with the fish and wildlife program developed by the Northwest Power and Conservation Council (Council) and responsive to the Council’s recommendations for projects. Project proposals are submitted to the Council from Tribal governments, state agencies, property owners, private conservation groups, and other Federal agencies. BPA supports a wide range of actions to achieve wildlife mitigation consistent with the Council's goals and priorities. BPA strongly emphasizes the achievement of biological objectives in the least costly manner and encourages projects with an ecosystem-based approach so both fish and wildlife are integrated simultaneously with habitat protection and improvement projects.
 
Just as HEP surveys were used by Impact Assessments to determine Habitat Units (HUs) lost, the Wildlife Mitigation program uses HEP surveys are to determine HUs gained by mitigation activities such as protecting habitat through acquisitions/easements and enhancing habitat through weed control, fencing, etc. Habitat Units are thus the "currency" of the program's Wildlife Crediting "ledger" which tracks debits (lost HUs) and credits (protected and enhanced HUs). Impact Assessment and HEP report publications are available on our Search Publications page.

As with any other type of project, BPA assesses the potential environmental impacts of its wildlife mitigation projects before work begins. In its Record of Decision for the Fish & Wildlife Implementation Plan Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), BPA decided to standardize the planning and implementation process for wildlife projects, while achieving balance among all decision factors: (1) meeting the biological objectives of wildlife mitigation projects, (2) achieving cost and administrative efficiency, (3) complying with all applicable laws and regulations, and (4) protecting and improving other environmental resources when such actions would support wildlife mitigation. The Fish & Wildlife Implementation Plan EIS covers wildlife mitigation actions with potential environmental impacts such as land acquisition and management, water rights acquisition and management, habitat restoration and improvement, weed control, riparian fencing, and similar wildlife conservation actions.


Maybe someone can explain to me how funding mack days tournaments and the gill and trap netting of lake trout in Flathead Lake, to the tune of three million dollars, has ANYTHING to do with the highlighted statement above?

Thats the question I am going to be asking them, when I inquire today about exactly how much of my power bill goes to this funding...


That's pretty simple. The BPA dams have cut off passage of native fish populations and that is what they are required to mitigate. Help bull trout / cutthroat trout. They are not trying to help invasive lake trout, just the opposite.

Why does everyone think that mack days has been the reason lake trout catch rates have declined? That's how an invasion works. Boom and bust. Ask pike anglers on Seeley Lake and perch fisherman on Canyon Ferry. The new fish species has an untapped food resource and the first residents have it made. Then they overpopulate and decimate the food source and their numbers shrink.

I too have been perplexed as to why FWP claims to want to eradicate bull trout, but has a slot limit. That doesn't make any sense.

Offline PerchAssault

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #14 on: Mar 11, 2012, 09:07 AM »
They aren't trying to eradicate BULL trout...(or Lake trout.)

Let me make this clear, this is a CSKT and USFWS program that our FWP has been FORCED to go along with.

Lake trout have been in the lake for over 100 years...it's the MYSIS SHRIMP that changed the lake forever. And if anything, that food source is expanding...I see them on my sonar everytime I hit 300' of water!

and that is my point exactly, the dams had nothing to do with what happened in Flathead Lake...so no mitigation money should be directed towards it...

PS-The slot limit is there so we can have a trophy fish potential.  Kill those 30-36" fish (that are 30-40 years old) and you will never get a 40" plus. (The "trophy" was defined, by public input, as 36" and up) Our FWP took a hard stance on that in 1998 and that is why we have a slot.

If I\'m not fishing, I\'m probably thinking about fishing...And if I\'m thinking about fishing, I\'m probably not getting much else done so, I might as well go fishing...Yeah, I just said that!

Offline RobG

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #15 on: Mar 11, 2012, 04:58 PM »
They aren't trying to eradicate BULL trout...(or Lake trout.)
Lake trout have been in the lake for over 100 years...it's the MYSIS SHRIMP that changed the lake forever. And if anything, that food source is expanding...I see them on my sonar everytime I hit 300' of water!

and that is my point exactly, the dams had nothing to do with what happened in Flathead Lake...so no mitigation money should be directed towards it...

I agree about the shrimp... they've been in the 30 years so you'd guess the boom/bust sequence is probably over if it was a factor at all.

Your second comment about the BPA mitigation money is incorrect. In some areas the damage BPA has done is impossible to fix so it must be mitigated by improving other areas. It is sort of a net-zero thing: you can mess up one place as long as you can fix another place, that way the total impact is reduced (i.e. mitigated).

I will agree in advance with your pending comments questioning whether their money is improving the situation or just being spent because they have too ;D, but it is definitely within the intent of the policy.

Offline PerchAssault

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #16 on: Mar 11, 2012, 07:38 PM »
Spot on with your second paragraph Rob, a point I hadn't yet considered...and your third as well...

my opinion is that we have a great fishery (one of the best for big fish, multiple opportunity and techniques, year round.  But not everyone will agree with me on that.

AND I felt that way before I invested over $150,000 in a career on that lake ;D
If I\'m not fishing, I\'m probably thinking about fishing...And if I\'m thinking about fishing, I\'m probably not getting much else done so, I might as well go fishing...Yeah, I just said that!

Offline RobG

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Re: Montana withdraws from Flathead Lake management process
« Reply #17 on: Mar 11, 2012, 09:50 PM »
The shrimp thing hits home for me. I miss the (non-native) Kokanee in the fall, but never fished the main lake much. I guess now the Lake Whitefish make a run so you lose one thing and gain another sometimes. A lot of friends used to fish the lake for Bulls and Lakers. One is still on the bottom somewhere after a storm caught him unprepared.  I'm sure it is a better Lake Trout lake than it ever was, but I'm sure you know it was always respected for LT. Well maybe you can take me for a boat ride this summer and explain all this to me in person ;)

 



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