PSC----> 2-6-05 ----> Kokanee Salmon

[PSCHARDWATERBOYS]

Here's a Kokanee Salmon that appeared to be spawning...but in february??? We figured that it was spawning based on its colors and how beat up the tail is. Also, we figured that if these salmon are actually spawning, its the only reason why 5-10lb browns would come into 3-8 feet of water; either to eat the salmon or eat the eggs. If anybody  has any other info on kokanees, i would like to hear it. Thanks



The same kokanee again

[PGKris]

I wouldn't touch that fish again if I were you! You didn't eat it did you?? Kokanee spawn in may, not february! It looks pretty beat up so I'm gonna guess that it was dying or diseased in some way. Kokanne are the same as rainbows, they spawn in the spring then go back to the lakes. They're essentially land-locked sockeye salmon. They don't die after they spawn, if that's what you're thinking. They don't take any more beating during spawning than a rainbow. If you're sure it's a kokanee (lloks like a rainbow to me, and I've seen a lot of kokanee), and you catch more that look like that, go talk to whatever fisheries management branch you have over there. That can't be good and if it IS  diseased, you don't want the rest of the population to get it. Good luck
KRIS

[PGKris]

Actually I took another closer look at it and it is a kokanee. You should go talk to someone in power. There's no reason for a kokanee to be in that bad of shape in the middle  of winter!
KRIS

[bigredonice]

the kokanees that are stocked by new york state spawn in october and november...that fish is simply a post spawn fish that hasnt died yet...its days were numbered when you caught it. pretty fish though i definetly wouldnt eat it at this stage in its life.

[Pasquatch]

Yeah that Kokanee is rotting internally, all its organs are shrinking. Its going back to mother nature if you get my drift...

[PGKris]

OK, maybe I wasn't clear before - KOKANEE DO NOT DIE AFTER THEY SPAWN. PSCHARDWATERBOYS - that fish is nothing to fool around with. Report it to whomever your local fisheries wardens/CO's are. That's a disease and should be reported and if they already know about it, you're fine, but if they don't, or know of it but not in that lake, you're saving yourselves a lot of grief in the future. I'll say it again: Kokanee salmon are land-locked sockeye salmon that spawn in the spring and do not die after they spawn. I don't care where they are; do rainbows spawn in the spring in New York? I didn't think so. Trust me on this one, I've had more experience with kokanee and their habits than you can dream of
KRIS

[panfish_guru]

Kokanee salmon spawn in the Fall in New York.  You can check it out here.....www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/fish/fishspecs/salmntxt.html#kokaneesalmon

[bigredonice]

hey PGKris, our NY kokanee strain (Oncorhynchus nerka) spawns in the fall, and they all die after spawning.  i know, i have personally handled spawning kokanees, and have seen the post spawn mortality, and have personally cared for them at every stage in their life cycle...maybe your kokes are different, i just know NY kokanees, not any others from any other region (alltough all my research says they all spawn in the fall and die)

As for our rainbows, some spawn in the spring and YES, some do spawn in the fall...it depends on the strain (there are many)

 a quick google search
http://www.dto.com/fwfishing/species/generalprofile.jsp?speciesid=314
http://ndis.nrel.colostate.edu/fishingspx.asp?SpCode=010005
http://www.scn.org/earth/savelake/Kokanee%20Identification.htm

[Pasquatch]

I agree with BigRed, our kokanees die...

[PGKris]

OK, you convinced me. I really want to see it though. You guys must have some weird kokanee! I have never heard of any species of trout that spawn in the fall. The kokanee here spawn in the spring right after or before the rainbows, depending on how far norht you are. The only fall spawners we have are the char family: brookies, lakers, bull trout etc you get the drift. Thats nuts, fall spawner kokanee. Heh, learn somethin new every day. Thanks guys
KRIS

[ChenBassHead]

Of course a Kokanee is going to die after it spawns...it's considered a Pacific Salmon, is it not? Pacific Salmon die after spawning, Atlantics don't necessarily die. And that fish was DEFINITELY on it's way to the bottom of the pond! No way in hell would I have eaten that thing!

-Zach

[APU GARCIA]

There is a lake in Sask. that was stocked with Kokanee's. We would catch them in March and they would be full of eggs.

[bigredonice]

brown trout and atlantic salmon also spawn in the fall, as do some domesticated rainbow trout, and also all our pacific salmon transplanted to the great lakes...our only spring spawners are some of our other rainbow trout strains (steelhead, and some other 'bow strains).  interestingly enough, our spring spawning steelhead have are full of immature eggs in the fall, and some of our browns display immature eggs as early as may (they typically spawn in october and november)

[dwayne]

I can vouch for the browns having immature eggs in May.  I primarily trout fish in May and every now and then throuw one in the frying pan.  It is not uncommon in NYS to catch a 16 to 18 inch brown trout and find teh start to the egg sac in May.

[bigredonice]

i found an obscure reference that states that rarely some kokanees survive to spawn again, but i can't find any references to kokanees actually spawning any later than january, other than making some non-spawning runs up the streams in spring.

http://www.fiskeriverket.se/publikationer/avslutade_serier/fivso_inf1996_2_eng.htm

i would really like to learn more about your kokanees, can anyone provide a link explaining the spring spawning of some kokanees?

[Robb]

We have a strain of rainbow in our pond that spawn in the spring. Usually they are spewing eggs and milt when you bring them in.

Robb

[Pasquatch]

i found an obscure reference that states that rarely some kokanees survive to spawn again, but i can't find any references to kokanees actually spawning any later than january, other than making some non-spawning runs up the streams in spring.

http://www.fiskeriverket.se/publikationer/avslutade_serier/fivso_inf1996_2_eng.htm

i would really like to learn more about your kokanees, can anyone provide a link explaining the spring spawning of some kokanees?

Never heard of spring spawners.... I know that AI is done with Kokanees in New Mexico, they put them in High elevation lakes and they grow quite large and are stocked for angler's enjoyment!

[TJC]

Kokes spawn from August through February depending on location. Also Kokes die after spawning just like other Pacific Salmon. They generally  reach sexual maturity at 3-4yrs of age. It seems the further west you go the earlier they spawn but it is dependent on the lakes and streams makeup.

[PSCHARDWATERBOYS]

Thanks everybody for all the info. I knew kokanee were a landlocked socki, and that they were a pacific salmon...so being a di-hard king salmon fisherman, i assumed they did die. I agree that because of the mild winter, the kokanee up here in franklin county may have spawned late and a few are still around.  I know that when the kings run, the dont eat once they are in the river, this causting them to all die. If this kokanee , being a pacific salmon just like the king, why are they still eating after they have spawned. When the kings stop eating they suffer from malnutrition and thats why they turn black and die. Im not disagreeing with anyone, but some things just dont make sence. I gave the fish to our fisheries bioligist on camopus who teaches many classes form introduction to fisheris, fisheris management and icthiology. He was excited to add it to the collection and study it this week in a couple of his classes. Glad to say i DIDN'T eat it. THANKS AGAIN ALL!!

[PSCHARDWATERBOYS]

P.S. some of you might be interested in knowing that when i pulled it out of the hole, there was milk coming out of him , and i ended up noticing 2 individual eggs in the snow when i picked it up when we left. Im guessing he may have ate them....? I know the kings dont actually their eggs, but they do pick them up to move them sometimes. some ppl fish for them like that in sowego in the deep pools in front of the shoots. So many similarities, yet so many  differences at the same time.

[Carp1]

What ever it is, it was slimmy and ugly and looked like a dead fish.  Go wash your hands young man!!

[flags a flyin]

http://photobucket.com/albums/v638/l_resseguie/?action=view&current=Malekokanee.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v638/l_resseguie/?action=view&current=Leswithkokanee.jpg

here are two pictures of male kokanee from Deer Pond in the Adirondacks.  these are what they are supposed to look like.  caught a lot of these while sampling for round whitefish.  I can't figure out how to post pictures so you have to go to this site, sorry.  any help would be appreciated on posting pics.

[MikePike]

? this may or may not work

[flags a flyin]

all right i figured it out here are those pictures.  they really are cool fish.  these fish we caught in a pond with no spawing habitat.  just a little kettle pond.  i don't think that there is any successful spawning.  the DEC just stocks the pond every couple years.

[bigredonice]

there ya go! i had some friends that collected them this november with the DEC in a spawning tributary to glass lake in rennselear county, ny.

[Hood]

Which deer pond is that? there are quite a few deer ponds in the adks.... I know there is good fishing in the one by upper saranac, and theres one near long lake

[flags a flyin]

its the one near saranac.  it is on the massawipi (sp?) boy scout camp.  we caught about 2 doz that day.  they tooth up in gill nets well.

[TroutFishingBear]

Alright, kokanee spawn in october to november usually, and die after they spawn. (this is in colorado)

A fish spawns not necessarily on time of year, but on water temperature and the time since their last spawn. A fish spawns as frequently as possible, but usually we attest to fish spawning certian times of year, but that is only because they gain the strength and are healthy enough to do so, and the conditions (primarily water temperature, quality) are proper. Here in colorado, in the colorado river in glenwood, the brown trout are late fall-winter spawners. They don't start until early november and end in early-mid january. Of course, in the gunnison river they are your typical october to mid november spawners. Of course the colorado river has natural causes in which the browns spawn in winter more than fall. (murky water conditions, natural hot springs in the area that warm up the water temperature, etc.) So, as you can see in some areas fish spawn patterns are very different. I've even experience fall run rainbow trout and spring run browns in the colorado river. (although they are much more rare than the typical)

[archbishop]

im glad i clicked on this post i got schooled i had no idea of any of this 
i could go to cobbleskill but i would rather sit here for 4 years and get my bigred degree