O/T AntlerPoint Restriction Hearing

[duck doctor]

News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
Phone: (603) 271-3211
Email: [email protected]
For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildnh.com

* * * * * * *

CONTACT:
Steve Weber: 603-271-2461
Sandra Falicon: 603-271-3511
March 10, 2011


RULE HEARINGS ON ANTLER POINT RESTRICTION PROPOSAL: APRIL 7 - CONCORD; AND APRIL 8 - PITTSBURG

CONCORD, N.H. -- Proposed rules regarding antler point restrictions (APRs) in Wildlife Management Unit-A for deer hunters in New Hampshire will be discussed at two public hearings in April:

* Thursday, April 7, 2011, at 6:30 p.m., at the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, N.H. 03301; and

* Friday, April 8, 2011, at 6:30 p.m., at the Pittsburg School, 12 School Street, Pittsburg, N.H.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department is proposing to:

* readopt with amendment Fis 301.03 to restrict the taking of deer in wildlife management unit A (WMU A) during the bow and arrow season, the muzzleloader and the regular firearm seasons to a 3-point minimum antlered deer or antlerless deer.

* readopt with amendment Fis 301.01 to define “Three point minimum antlered deer” as a deer that has at least one antler 3 inches long measured from the tip of the main beam along the distal edge of the antler to the base of the antler burr at the skull, plus at least two antler points that branch from the main beam that are at least 1 inch from the tip to the confluence with the closest edge of the main beam.

"As part of the process of developing these proposals, Fish and Game received input from an unprecedented 7,870 hunters -- that's almost 12% of the nearly 66,000 hunters surveyed last fall," said Fish and Game Wildlife Division Director Steve Weber. "It was determined that most hunters supported implementing buck age structure management techniques if called for based on our current deer management plan." Based on the results of that survey, Fish and Game also determined that the best form of buck age structure management in this situation was to implement a 3-point APR in WMU-A only.

For more information on the complex issue of "buck age structure management" (the regulation of antlered buck harvest in an effort to reduce the harvest mortality rate of one or more buck age classes), visit http://www.huntnh.com/buckagestructure. The objective of such management is to try to provide a better opportunity for bucks to reach older ages.

“We understand this is a big change, and that there are a lot of hunters on both sides of the APR issue in New Hampshire,” said Weber. “At this point, we have not made a final decision on whether or not to implement the recommendation and will be seeking public input to help us make our final decision. We need folks to show up and voice their opinions or to submit written comments if we are going to make the best decision on this important issue.”

The complete rulemaking notice, with original and proposed rule language, can be viewed on the Fish and Game website. Go to http://www.wildnh.com/Legislative/Notices_summary.htm and click on “Deer Season Rules -- Antler Point Restriction (APR).”

Written comments must be received by April 18, 2011. Send to: [email protected] (put “Comments on Deer Season Rules - APR” in subject line; or write to Executive Director, N.H. Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301; or fax to (603) 271-1438.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department is the guardian of the state’s fish, wildlife and marine resources and their habitats. Visit http://www.wildnh.com.

[Swampdonkey]

So am I reading that correctly? They are only consedering a point restriction in WMU A?

[newfound]

There must have been too much negative feedback from returned surveys for other WMU areas to even discuss it..
I really don't think trying this like IOWA or Nebraska is gonna make hell of beans, as this state doesn't have the food plots the mid-western states have.  Let em put in place up in Pittsburgh for a few years to find it only hurts the local Autumn economy.  
I filled out this survey, and as I only horn hunt anyways 6points or more, I was in favor of seeing this all over the state, all the way down into L and K.
Picking only A means less hunters travelling to the 'Great North Woods'. Not good for campgrounds and other service based businesses.
I say make it like this across the state for a few years to see how it goes.  Leave M open  Or leave it alone... but don't pick on the Pittsburgh businesses.
Not in this economy.

NB

[Swampdonkey]

I don't belive in "Growing" deer. Shooting a big buck is an achivement that isn't easy nor is it supposed to be.

[newfound]

I don't belive in "Growing" deer. Shooting a big buck is an achivement that isn't easy nor is it supposed to be.

I can see an argument for the 3 points or more.
10 years ago, not many hunters used calls in this state.
Thanks to the internet and the hunter programs on TV and all the available products on the wall at the local sports shop.
Now, everyone has an arsenal of calls, etc.(not all know how to use).
It's fairly easy to call in the young/dumb ones..
I just can't see picking  on one community like this.
And forget about making these products illegal. These companies have lobbyist fighting to keep them available.

NB

[Worm Dangler]

Yes.  

They implimented it last year in WMU A but I think it's up in the air whether or not they're gonna keep the rule for this hunting season (duck doctor correct me if i'm wrong).

They put the rule in place to help get more mature bucks in the North Country.  They are under the impression that if you let the spikes walk they'll have a better chance to grow  into bigger deer.  However, this rule has created a lot of controversy...some say that putting this rule in place forces hunters to harvest bigger bucks thus hurting the good gene pool, and over time will result in bucks with smaller antlers. (the last thing we want!)

For example) Lets say there are two bucks that are 1 1/2years old, one's a spike horn and the other is a 4 pointer (because of different genes obviously)...if you are forced to shoot the 4 pointer you harvesting a buck of the same age that has better genetics rather than taking the smaller spike.

Just what I've heard from the opposing side.  I have lots of buddies that hunt NH and are not in favor of this restriction.  I'm still undecided but happy the state is putting a lot of interest into the topic.

Can't wait till this season starts!  I usually shoot a pig every other year

[Swampdonkey]

All I can say for sure is no matter what laws they add I still cant wait for the Bow opener!

[duck doctor]

The North Country Chamber of Commerce is up in arms already! When they initiated the origonal APR, the hunters traveling north were cut in almost half according to the local businesses. Growing up, I can remember Young's/Mountain View Cabins full of hunters with multiple deer hanging on the porches. Now, they are lucky to have half their camps filled for the entire season!

Make the entire state bucks only/APR and issue doe tags via lottery like they do the moose permits. It will help the budget and might reduce license fee increases in the future.

[newfound]

Excellent argument Worm Dangler.
I hadn't thought of that, but I'd agree with that point.

[Swampdonkey]

The North Country Chamber of Commerce is up in arms already! When they initiated the origonal APR, the hunters traveling north were cut in almost half according to the local businesses. Growing up, I can remember Young's/Mountain View Cabins full of hunters with multiple deer hanging on the porches. Now, they are lucky to have half their camps filled for the entire season!

Make the entire state bucks only/APR and issue doe tags via lottery like they do the moose permits. It will help the budget and might reduce license fee increases in the future.

I  like the doe days myself. When I lived in Maine everyone griped about the doe permit system and wanted it to be like N.H. Grass is always greener kinda thing.

[duck doctor]

Excellent argument Worm Dangler.
I hadn't thought of that, but I'd agree with that point.

That is the major beef with everyone. I can say I have been hunting the north country all my life and have seen less than 10 bucks in the woods deering deer season that I would call BIG BUCKS!  We have taken a few over 200 with the biggest being 225 with a muzzleloader (Longbeardking knocked that one over).  There are plenty of bucks up here. The thing I have seen most is that with the less hunters actually hunting up here, the deer kill is down. We don't see "road blocks" or "hunter check points" up here anymore either. I would like to see some road blocks again and data collected from hunters who are acutally spending time in the woods hunting, not arm chair/fair weather hunters that only get in the woods once or twice a season and then piss and moan because they did not see/get a deer.

[Worm Dangler]

Thanks Newfound.

On a positive note duck doctor I saw a monster 8 pointer in January cross Rt. 3 right in front of me at 2AM near Spruce Cones!  Gives me hope for this upcoming season 

I'll keep you posted this season on my sightings, I usually take a week or two and hunt the burgs...I go out no matter what the weather throws at me.  The rest of my season is spet in So. NH and MASS (probably the only good thing about MASS is the big bucks!)

Maybe we could drive the woods together...just a thought 

Love Pittsburg, going up again this weekend to check on the house and ice fish

[sweet lou]

dd is right they try ed the point system already up there but didn't leave in place long enough.to many lodge owners complained about the amount of hunters it pushed away. i have owned property in pittsburg for 11 years now have all kinds of deer running around my property.just not that many bucks.the doe tag system is the way to go.

[salmon stalker]

State wide they should implement this, about time. Yes it can hurt some places but as a whole, in a couple years it will make NH more attractive to travel to for hunting.

Also will give more chances for trophy bucks. My buddies camp in Stewartstown is 300 acres, they only allow 8pt bucks or larger to be taken, no does..PERIOD. The amount of large bucks they have is amazing because of this. I have seen first hand what it can do.

[Cub]

State wide they should implement this, about time. Yes it can hurt some places but as a whole, in a couple years it will make NH more attractive to travel to for hunting.

Also will give more chances for trophy bucks. My buddies camp in Stewartstown is 300 acres, they only allow 8pt bucks or larger to be taken, no does..PERIOD. The amount of large bucks they have is amazing because of this. I have seen first hand what it can do.

+1

[sweet lou]

the problem with that is you have to cull does out of the herd and it makes for a stronger herd.

[Cub]

the problem with that is you have to cull does out of the herd and it makes for a stronger herd.

Mother nature does the culling up there

[duck doctor]

Mother nature does the culling up there

Not really the case much anymore. The deer used to yard up on River Rd. Now that everyone and their brothers are feeding them, there is not that much winter kill. I know of over a dozen feed stations up there. I drove by one and counted over 100 deer at one time. If you take a small amount, even 20 deer per station....forget about 100....they don't really have it that bad up there anymore.  Two years ago, they had 50+ road kill in the 30mph zone in town alone in one month!  Last year, there was an 8pt that still had his horns in the 1st week of March hanging around the post office parking lot.

There is a place across from Lake Francis that has huge numbers. You have all the people in town that feed them. Then there is the half dozen feeders at Spruce Cone as well as the residents at The Tarns.......The deer don't have it that bad up there.

[whtmtniceman]

I could be wrong, but i dont remember there not being a 3-point minimum in wmu A, unless if it was only for a couple seasons at most. so all this work that they did just led them in a circle back to where they were before. They also had different seasons up there, and I remember all this because when I was younger i used to think to myself "I would hate to hunt up there b/c they have so many rules". also the whole no doe's till the after the first two weeks of bow season rule isnt going to do much, they will just get shot once its legal to shoot them. if they want does to not get shot then they need to use a quota system. 

[duck doctor]

Up until 2000 or a little later, we have had doe days and was very fun hunting. We use to see vehicles from ME, VT, and Canada every day! Now, because of all the changes (both at the boarder and within NH regs) we don't see 1/4 of the vehicles we use to.

When the instituted the antlerless or antlered only regs, they made spike horns illegal.  Well more than a half dozen spikes were shot and the new law was not enforced because the local C/O's did not like the wording.  I was unaware that spikes were illegal under this new rule and a friend shot a spike. He got his but chewed by the CO but was not fined.

The state is making it confusing for everyone.

The should just make it bucks only and issue doe permits for certain WMU's and make it easier for everyone throughout the state and our North Country economy!

[LT-taker]

I am glad they are putting the restriction back in place, I just hope they have a plan and leave it for atleast 5yrs, so we can see if it makes a difference. In my opion, it was. In the last two season, in two weeks @ the camp, my crew has managed deer that weigh 125,174,186,193,225.  And everyone saw more deer. I know the mild winters are helping, it just seemed like when you saw a buck, it had some bone on it's head.

[duck doctor]

I am glad they are putting the restriction back in place, I just hope they have a plan and leave it for atleast 5yrs, so we can see if it makes a difference. In my opion, it was. In the last two season, in two weeks @ the camp, my crew has managed deer that weigh 125,174,186,193,225.  And everyone saw more deer. I know the mild winters are helping, it just seemed like when you saw a buck, it had some bone on it's head.

There is much more to this than just an antler restriction. Our local economy depends on tourists. Since the antler restriction has been put in place, our economy has been cut 1/4. It really has hurt us up here.  I wish there was a way that they could help the economy AND the deer herd at the same time.

[LT-taker]

I hear ya... It is very suprising to see Judy's cabin's (Young's) not full during rifle season..Or many others for that fact..  Best of luck to the North Country, You will be getting my dollars in November..

[duck doctor]

My aunt owns The Glen. Last year she went 3 weeks without one single paying customer!  The state needs to drive people to come up here, not drive them away.

[CJiceaddict]

It always seems to come down to more deer or bigger deer. I hunt for food, I enjoy eating deer, so I personally want to see more shootable deer. I don't want to shoot 70lb skippers or anything like that but healthy 115+ lb spikes make great freezer fare. If the state impements a statewide antler restriction then I think that is fine, but just putting it in coos is crazy. That kills their economy and while hunters who just want a big deer will go there, there are many people who will go elsewhere just to see more shooter deer.

[deerme]

i can understand trophy hunter's opinions and their desire to see bigger bucks in NH, but i'm a meat hunter.  i LOVE venison and eat it 3 to 5 times a week, whether it's burger, steak, sausage, or what have you.  that being said, i want to see more deer, not bigger deer.  seems like i'm the minority though...

brown is down!!!!!!!!!!!!

[duck doctor]

i'm a meat hunter.  i LOVE venison, i want to see more deer, not bigger deer.  seems like i'm the minority though...

brown is down!!!!!!!!!!!!

x2 buddy!  I shot a small bear this past fall. I have never had a bear that tasted so good!  No more "hunting for big'uns" for me. I will take any bear around 100lbs in a heart beat now!

[Swampdonkey]

People shoot what they feel good about shooting. Me personally I wont shoot skippers,jakes,cubs, or sow with cubs. With that being said bring on hunting season!

[Swampdonkey]

DD wernt refering to your bear as a cub at all.

[newfound]

It always seems to come down to more deer or bigger deer. I hunt for food, I enjoy eating deer, so I personally want to see more shootable deer. I don't want to shoot 70lb skippers or anything like that but healthy 115+ lb spikes make great freezer fare. If the state impements a statewide antler restriction then I think that is fine, but just putting it in coos is crazy. That kills their economy and while hunters who just want a big deer will go there, there are many people who will go elsewhere just to see more shooter deer.

There's plenty of BIG deer in the southern part of the state.  I hunt in and around Clough where there are many deer 200+ and some 250+.
Biggest NH deer I ever saw I was 10yrs old,  33 years ago.  It probably was taken illegally and story was it dressed out just over 300# If memory serves me correctly it was 312#.(Not on the record books).
Head was on the wall of a taxidermist barn my dad used for his first bear.(Rumor has it the Taxidermist moved out west, or was chased out west).
(COs, it was 33 years ago, I was 10 years old, but I know what I saw and heard.  I have no idea who the taxidermist was or where they'd be now.)
What I remember at that age is all the grown men in the room could not hug this mount around the neck and touch their fingers, and it had 2 Oak Trees for a rack.(you just don't forget something like that)
This deer was said to have be taken out of Weare, NH.  I've also seen plenty of big deer come out of Auburn, NH and other southern/seacoast communities.
That's why singling out one northern community becuase the state thinks people are going to drive 4 hours for bigger deer is a farse..

NB