What would you guys have done???

[fishinjim]

WI DNR says it must be released, and yes they also check for the 1/16 inch short. And more then happy to fine you.

[empty hook]

I would have kept it.  I will save you a long rant but as a hunter and fisherman I feel responsible to what I kill.  I would hope the very nice DEC officer would understand.

Good luck

[iluvcrappie]

unfortunately you have to do the wrong thing here and throw it back....its a lot better than getting a ticket.....but on the other hand how many times is a person gonna get checked when they are ice fishing........i have been ice fishing for many years and have only been checked by the dnr 3 or 4 times but like i said its a toss up ticket if you get caught or no worries with no fish under the limit

[MnSportsman]

[
    If you are deer hunting and you shoot at a buck and you are sure that is the only deer around and it goes right down, and then you get over to it and it is a doe and you have no tag. what do you do then, leave it for nature to take care of. NO that animal died because of you, get it back to your house and take care of it. If you get caught
you get caught but that is the chance you have to take. You did not want to kill the doe but you did,now its time to be responsible. If you kill it take care of it accident or not.

If a person were to make such a crappy mistake,like the example you used above.That person should make a choice, just like any person might do by making a bad decision to shoot a target without knowing for sure what the target was. 1st choice, leave it lay, & walk away, nature will deal with it. Or ,  "fess up & call the DNR/DEC, & tell them you messed up & take your medicine... Or if that person is lucky & the law allows it, have someone with a doe tag , tag the deer & that is still in a gray area of the law
  That person should also invest in some time on ID'ing targets before  shooting. Otherwise , that person should pass on the shot. That person should wait until they know that it isn't possibly a doe..
    I want anyone reading this, to understand that I'm not a little kid, & have been hunting & fishing now  for 30 + years. Passed the Firearms safety course in 1974,& in addition, 6 years in the USMC. {<< I'm not "blowing my trumpet" by typing this info... I'm stating this so anyone can understand where I'm coming from.}          If a person doesn't know for sure who /what is the target, That person shouldn't shoot.     If  a person were in the service & shoot your own people , there' a significant price to pay... Even Law enforcement officials, go to a course that teaches them not to shoot the Mom & her little kid( innocent bystander), but the Bad guy that is the criminal.  To not be able to identify a target (buck or doe) & still take the shot, I believe is irresponsible.   It goes the same for  waterfowl hunting, Turkey hunting , etc....    If a person is bird hunting & can't tell the difference between a canvasback & a redhead, or tell if a turkey is a Tom,  jake or hen... Don't shoot, until knowing for sure of what your target is, & thats being a responsible hunter.    BTW , Your Buck & doe example will bring me back to fishing But one more thing... By using that Buck/doe example, is like telling me that taking a shot at A Buck that has a doe near it, & Then hitting the doe & even though  a person broke the law & Knew it.., And  they still take it home.. is OK. It's not.    Simply stated...That person shouldn't have taken the shot... Nuff said. But hunting & fishing are not the same..

    So getting back to fishing, If a person is targeting Lake trout & there are Musky in the lake & the Musky are protected, or are out of season & that person catches one & and some how the hook got into the gills as they were pulling it in. and since there is alot of damage done to the fish and it was bleeding profusely. Just like your below the Slot length trout situation, in your original post.  Should that person keep it? 

   No, they shouldn't , a person should put it back,  & feel bad, but It's the law & that person followed the law. & BTW, that person probably took the time to read & learn to ID the difference between a Musky & a Trout.  So , there's a fishing example of why I wrote my first reply.. Follow the law.
The right thing to do is follow the law... Like it or not. If a person doesn't follow the law they are not a sportsman, & They are a Poacher....
Simple as that...

I cannot see how anyone can take it upon themselves & knowingly break the law, & then say it's OK..

I believe that doing something like that is...crap.

That's My $1.00 worth, Gas is going up too...

PS, In Minnesota if you did what troutguy 1377 is talking about, by taking the doe home. You can lose your hunting rights in Minn. for something like 5 years, plus MN is a "partner state" with many other states in that, if you can't hunt here in Mn, you can't hunt in the other states. In addition to that, they can also take your weapon used to illegally take an animal, the vehicle & all equiptment used to commit the crime. This rule is also in effect here as for as fishing, they can give out the same punishment...
 
SO is it worth feeling good about breaking a regulation... You decide..

[troutguy1377]

If you were to make such a crappy mistake,like the example you used above.You should make a choice, just like you did by making a bad decision to shoot a target without knowing for sure what the target was. 1st choice, leave it lay, & walk away. Or ,  "fess up & call the DNR/DEC, & tell them you messed up & take your medicine... Or if you're lucky & the law allows it, have someone with a doe tag , tag the deer & that is still in a gray area of the law
  You should also invest in some time on ID'ing targets before you shoot. Otherwise , You pass on the shot. You wait until you know that it isn't possibly a doe..
    I want you to understand that I'm not a  little kid, & have been hunting & fishing now  for 30 + years. Passed the Firearms safety course in 1974,& in addition, 6 years in the USMC. {<< I'm not "blowing my trumpet" by typing this info... I'm stating this so you can understand where I'm coming from.}          If you don't know for sure who /what is the target, you don't shoot.     If you were in the service & shoot your own people , there' a significant price to pay... Even Law enforcement officials, go to a course that teaches them not to shoot the Mom & her little kid( innocent bystander), but the Bad guy that is the criminal.  To not be able to identify a target (buck or doe) & still take the shot, I believe is irresponsible.   It goes the same for  waterfowl hunting, Turkey hunting , etc....    If you are bird hunting & can't tell the difference between a canvasback & a redhead, or tell if a turkey is a Tom,  jake or hen... Don't shoot,until ya do, & that means being a responsible hunter.    BTW , Your Buck & doe example will bring me back to fishing But one more thing... By using that Buck/doe example, is like telling me that taking a shot at A Buck that has a doe near it, & Then hitting the doe & even though you broke the law & Knew it..,  you'd still take it home..  Simply stated...You shouldn't have taken the shot... Nuff said. But hunting & fishing are not the same..

    So getting back to fishing, If you are targeting Lake trout & there are Musky in the lake & the Musky are protected, or are out of season & you catch one & and some how the hook got into the gills as you were pulling it in. There is alot of damage done to the fish and it was bleeding profusely. Just like your below the Slot length trout in your original post.  You gonna keep it? 

   No, you shouldn't , you put it back, feel bad, but It's the law & you followed the law. & BTW, you probably took the time to read & learn to ID the difference between a Musky & a Trout.  So , there's a fishing example of why I wrote my first reply.. Follow the law.
The right thing to do is follow the law... Like it or not. If you don't follow the law you are not a sportsman, & Are a Poacher....
Simple as that...

I cannot see how anyone can take it upon themselves & knowingly break the law, & then say it's OK..

BS...

That's My $1.00 worth, Gas is going up too...




       Mnsportsman, If you would have read closer you would see that I stated '' you are sure there is no other deer around''
and take the shot. Things like this do happen in the deer woods every year even by guys that KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between a buck and doe. My intensions were not to ruffle your feathers, like on a canvasback, or turkey  Just trying to give an example. I release 99% of the fish I catch but if it is dead or very close to dying I will keep it. I just feel it is my responsibility and it is me getting the fine nobody else and I can live with that. As far as calling me a poacher you had me breathing fire. So I walked away before posting this to relax (that damn temper!) and figured you are entitled to your opinion. But I am the farthest thing from that I assure you sir. Hey Mnsportsman I do value your opinion and have read your
other posts in the past and they are great. No hard feelings and tight lines

[Art 53]

Here's my 2 cents  A fish even profusely bleeding has a better chance of survive under the ice than on top

[bearjohnson]

troutguy1377     some of them will tell you that you must follow the law. i hope they remember that when they are going 56 in a 55 zone.

[bearjohnson]

cut the fish in half,stomp flat and tell everyone you thought you had two 9" crappies

[MnSportsman]

troutguy1377, I want you to know that I also harbor no hard feeling towards you.

   If you will go up & look, I reread the reply I posted earlier, above yours... & changed the references that say "you" to "a person" or "the person" , etc..
  I did this, just so that hopefully, you personally, would not take offense, by what I wrote. My intention was not to offend, but to state my beliefs. The use of the word "you" was intended for "Any" reader, not directed at any one person.  As I said in my original reply, that there are young folks who come here to IS, & I wanted to try & persuade them to try to follow the rules & regulations set by their state, or province & Their Federal government. And that it would probably be in their best interest to do that. 
     I appreciate your intention to keep any fish or animal that you are unable to return, basically unharmed, is something that you feel is the "right thing to do". I think it is a "well-intentioned" thing to do also, but , I also think it is better to follow the rules.
     I, as you have read, interpret the rules & regulation(laws) that the states/provinces/Fed Gvnmt issue, as the ones I have to follow , at the time that I sign my name to  any license that I am issued. Regardless, of whether I think they are "good" & "well thought-out" rules/reg.s , or "bad" ones. I agree to those rules when I sign, and if I "break, or "bend" them, I feel I am not honoring them, & I am making my signature of agreement dishonorable . 
    As far as someone being a "poacher". If someone takes fish or game, by not following the rules for where they are fishing/hunting, isn't that the definition of a poacher? Taking fish/game by illegal means? That is what I understand "poaching" to be.. I do not know of any other definition... And as many know, ignorance of a law , is not an excuse. So , by intentionally breaking/bending a law, however "well-intentioned" the person(s) that do this are, it still doesn't make it the right thing to do..in the "eyes of the law".

    I agree to disagree with you on this. & I hope that you aren't faced with these dilemmas very much, even though I know they will happen to you & Me until we no longer hunt or fish. I just hope we all make the proper decisions.


& troutguy1377,
   You may want to look up at my "modified post , & read the "PS' at the bottom... Mn law is harsh sometimes..

[troutguy1377]

cut the fish in half,stomp flat and tell everyone you thought you had two 9" crappies



    If you cant laugh at that there is something wrong with you, good one bear!!!

[bearjohnson]

 i am just wondering if someone could help me. how do i tell a 5 year old that it is more ethical to stuff a dead fish back in a hole because i dont want to give the state money from a fine

[MnSportsman]

Don't you answer that question in your signature file , bearjohnson??

The same way you teach the 5 year old anything else, by explaining it in a way they would understand it as a 5 year old & the reinforce it as he/she gets older.

Teaching "Right from Wrong" is our job as parents/mentors. Right?

Try using a comparison that the child would understand.
Maybe, something like,
     " Everyone has to follow rules, even Moms & Dads. Everyone includes you too, (insert 5 yr olds' name). And one of the rules when everybody is fishing here , is that if the fish isn't the right size, or kind of fish, then we have to put it back where we got it from. Even if it is hurt and may not live, or is dead. We have to follow the rules because it's the right thing to do."
That would probably be the way I would try first..

& I realize that you are probably asking TIC, but I thought I'd reply to you anyway.

Go FIsh!

[bearjohnson]

that is easier said than done. we teach kids that hurting other people is wrong and will not be tolerated,but because of a law it is OK to kill an animal and if it doesn't measure up we can just leave it behind.

[bearjohnson]

good luck to all and have a safe ending for the 2008 season

[MnSportsman]

Isn't that why we have to teach them & keep reinforcing that we sometimes learn from our mistakes.
Just like your signature statement, when you post.
good judgement comes from experience,  experience comes from bad judgement
 
   And sometimes everyone has to follow rules that don't make sense at the time. Until we, or someone changes them for the better.
 CHeck out this Post by one of the moderators on IS.
http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=80965.0

 It is a pretty good example of a rule that we all here should follow, even though it doesn't allow for true "freedom of expression/speech", as some members have stated after reading it. This is a rule that in one way makes sense as it is stated by the moderator, But doesn't make sense to some members.  You agreed to the rules when ya signed up here, just like you agree to the rules when you sign your license to fish/hunt. If you try & bend , or break the rules here on IS, you see the result at the bottom of that post. It seems the same as when you get caught trying to bend/break the fish & game rules..

That help?

"We're pullin for ya, we're all in this together", Red Green/Rick Smith/Canadian actor comedian.

I have to quit replying on this subject. I;'m gonna get "carpal tunnel" from typing.

[bearjohnson]

please don't take me wrong . i do teach my kids to do right. I'm just saying that i don't feel that state governments that make these laws are always right. if you don't believe me just look at our governor here in new york. he just got caught with a prostitute and please don't tell me that is ethical. these people are not always good role models.

[MnSportsman]

I don't take ya wrong. Just pointing out my views. Just like you. That's why we come here. right?

BTW, If you believe that a law/rule/reg. isn't appropriate, talk or write to the folks that implemented the rule & ask why that it is in place & what does it take to change it.
Those folks are usually your state representatives, and/or The commisioner of the dept. (IE- DNR, DEC, etc.)  If you really think something shuld be changed, go out & let them know..

& It looks as tho your governor got caught "red handed". I can't say a lot about state governors though. The people of the state of  MN, voted Jesse Ventura , the Wrestler, to be governor...
GO figure???

[Grumpyoldman]

When the country was still in the early days, there were plenty of fish and game. They harvested anything that came their way and ate it or sold it. At some point the stock got depleted. Then the rules came in to stop the depletion. We all wish there was the abundance of back then. You gotta throw it back. It is a legal issue now, and an ethical dilemna.   

[MnSportsman]

LOL Icemaniac.   No "rose colored glasses" for me, althought  that was a good country western song by John Conlee back in the late 70's .

I'm gonna borrow bearjohnsons Quote in his signature file.

good judgement comes from experience,  experience comes from bad judgement

That's why I have posted my opinions on this topic. Don't ya think I may have had a few "brushes" with the law? Of course I have, & I didn't like it much.

Folks, it's my opinion that as far as the Government having people on strings... Having read the Constitution of the U.S. & the Bill of Rights. We, the people, make the laws to follow, through our elected officials. & we can also change the laws through those elected officials. I can use Helmet laws as an example, of how laws can be changed from having to wear them, or not having to wear them. Here's another, Drinking age laws, They have been changed back & forth not only by State governments, but also by Congress, during Pres. Reagan's years. Prohibition in the US, was tried & then people got it changed.. As far as hunting & fishing goes(since this forum is about Fishing. This topic will eventually end up in the Off-Topic Forum if it continues as it has.), In my state of  Minn. We the sportspeople of  Minn. petitioned & got our Fishing & Hunting/Trapping practices, made into "Rights" of the State Constitution. It takes the majority of people to make the laws & it takes the same to change, or get rid of them. Our forefathers didn't like King Georges laws, so they tried to change them. That didn't work, so they rebelled & we became the Government by, of & for the people. SO, we the people make the laws & thus when we bend/break them , we are going against the majority of the people who live around us.  Is it OK, for people to come to the US, by bending/breaking the law, by entering illegally? No, it's not OK, Is it OK to let just a few? No, it is not. So the same goes with any law, including Fish & Game laws. Bending/Breaking the law is wrong, as long as it is "in  place", & if ya want to change it, get the majority of people working on it, & you'll most likely get it changed.
 
Oh, and addressing the "expressway" example that was used above. Sure I have seen people  speeding. By golly, I may have even done it also. {ya think?}
but , doesn't make it OK. & I wonder if that is a good example to use, when discussing a legal vs. ethical type discussion.

One last thought, Since I began responding to this topic in the last 24 hours, I have seen more replies that seem to think I am "out of line" by posting my views, on following the law; than I have seen supporting the "following of the law" until it is changed view.  This makes me curious as to why there are a few making what I am typing, the views of someone wearing "rose colored glasses". I'm gonna "chalk it up" to,
That I am willing to stand up to what I believe is right, & I am able to be "vocal" about it, without worrrying whether it makes me popular or not.

Well, there I go again, writing a book.
But, ya do what ya gotta do, to get what ya want to say across. At least, I am not "interrupting" someone. 

Go Fish...

[michianafisherman]

I"m with ya MnSportsman. I didn't think you needed any help!

[Wild-man]

up here it's law regardless of situation to relaes illegal fish...
and i WON'T go to waste. something will eat it.
i'd pit it back in the water tho...don't need to feed the damn 'yotes!!

[eyedoktr]

If I was the fisherman, I would have released it back in the water. If I was an officer of the law and saw someone keep it I would write a ticket and make sure they were fined as heavily as possible and had their license revoked.

[troutguy1377]

Since I started this I figure I should have some finale words. There are two different sides to this,some would have kept the DEAD fish, and believe me I tried everything to save the fish. And some would have thrown it away. Well I made my choice, some think it is right and some think it is wrong,if it happens again I will do the same thing because I believe it is the right thing.I wont try to hide the fish and if I get caught I get caught.
Either way I will be happy with my decision. So If this happens to anyone else just do what feels right to you
and be happy with your decision.

[bearjohnson]

 

[buddah]

Just tell the DEC you are taking the fish to the vet and you will release it when it gets better.I'm sure he'll understand.

[MnSportsman]

Since I started this I figure I should have some finale words. There are two different sides to this,some would have kept the DEAD fish, and believe me I tried everything to save the fish. And some would have thrown it away. Well I made my choice, some think it is right and some think it is wrong,if it happens again I will do the same thing because I believe it is the right thing.I wont try to hide the fish and if I get caught I get caught.
Either way I will be happy with my decision.

   Folks , troutguy1377, started this Thread/Topic, & has chose to End it. I understand & respect that choice. We agreed to disagree, both here & by PM. Take what you like, from what you have read.
He told us of his tough predicament, & by telling us his story, & his "take" on how it turned out, & what he has decided to do in the future..., And doing this knowing that he may get some "flak" from it, when he first started the Thread/Topic.That shows that he has the courage to stand up for his beliefs. I respect that effort.
 I , in turn , did the best I could to persuade him & others to not choose the same path He has chosen. In doing so. standing up for my beliefs. 

So,
In agreement with &  quoting troutguy1377,

"So If this happens to anyone else just do what feels right to you, and be happy with your decision.

Go fish...


I know that "I", learned something from this Thread/Topic. Hope that those of you that read it, did also.

[chummer16]

My mind has been changed.  I first said I would have kept the dead fish, but after all these posts I have changed my mind.  I certainly do not need that one fish to survive so down the hole with it. 

[miket.]

how did it taste?

[panfishman13]

be an honest guy, keep the fish and take it to the local f&g office and tell them, "I'm sorry, this fish was hooked in the gills, i know it's under size limit, but i am not going to waste a fish, if you want me to pay a fine i will." they're pretty forgiving if you report yourself, and, the fish isn't wasted.

[empty hook]

be an honest guy, keep the fish and take it to the local f&g office and tell them, "I'm sorry, this fish was hooked in the gills, i know it's under size limit, but i am not going to waste a fish, if you want me to pay a fine i will." they're pretty forgiving if you report yourself, and, the fish isn't wasted.

I don't believe the Michigan DNR or the F&G would let you keep a ileagal fish no mater what the story would be.