Snowmobile industry faces financial crisis

[Mainehazmt]

Well then  lets start our own club  team  Maine iceshanty dues are free every year we can apply for a grant groom our access to the lake as we see fit  and get us one of them there welfare checks!

[blacktrap]

Clubs that maintain trails that by law are open to anyone riding a snowmobile.  Anyone, whether you belong to the club or not.  There are a lot of freeloaders that are usually the first ones to complain when they get a rough ride on the trail.

I understand there are some that never ride on a trail.  Thats the point of discussing it.  Maybe a better way of funding trail riding and keeping the registration for people that dont trail ride more reasonable can be found an work out.

[Mainehazmt]

I may pay if they put a 30 mph speed limit max on all trails

[Frozen__Nutts]

this is my snowmobile...I bought it together with my son to make our icefishing trips a little easier.......It has never been on a groomed trail.......I would oppose any such bill that would make me have to pay for trailgrooming

[pfd168]

I've got a tundra that is NOT a trail sled.....I would be against any extra fee. I with about everyone here we all just use our sleds for accessing lakes when the snow gets deep ..... kinda like now we have about 15 inches in Windham now. Why should I HAVE to join a club when I won't be using any trails. If they could put a fee on only trail sleds then go for it. It would be easy to do..... just have a different colored sticker. Enforcement would be up to everyone who is riding the trails... kinda like poachers hotline.

[blacktrap]

Those are the ideas that need to be communicated to the committe considering the changes.  Ideas that help everyone and dont just torpedo the whole thing without providing help for the clubs struggling to maintain the trails

[fiddlehead322]

What's a groomed trail look like? Didn't know there was such a thing. Can someone fill me in on this?

[dadstacklebox]

What's clout? Canit be taken away?? 

[JimP]

Here's How Snowmobile Reg. money is divided up. Notice the amounts going to the General Fund... Folks want a discussion and ideas, fine. Here is one, how about before we ask for more money we use the money we are paying for the intended purpose? Also what about all the gas tax money we pay that is actually a road use tax? What about all the tax money spent on lodging, food and booze. We need more cash, it is time for a bird watching stamp.

(MRS Title 12, Part 13, Chap. 903; Sec. 10206)

2. Snowmobile and trail-grooming equipment revenues. The Legislature shall appropriate to the department in each fiscal year an amount equal to the administrative costs incurred by the department in collecting revenue under this subsection. The department's administrative costs must be verified by the Department of Conservation and the Department of Administrative and Financial Services.

A. The snowmobile and trail-grooming equipment registration fee for residents collected under chapter 937 is credited as follows:

(1) Twenty-two percent is credited to the General Fund as undedicated revenue;

(2) Fifty-two percent is credited to the Snowmobile Trail Fund of the Department of Conservation, Bureau of Parks and Lands; and

(3) Twenty-six percent is annually distributed to the municipality of the owner's residence as shown on the owner's registration certificate, except that in unorganized territory, 26% is annually distributed to the county of the owner's residence as shown on the owner's registration certificate and credited to the unorganized territory fund of that county established in Title 30-A, section 7502.

B. The snowmobile registration fee for nonresidents collected under chapter 937 is credited as follows.

(1) Eighteen percent is credited to the General Fund as undedicated revenue.

(2) Seven percent is credited to the Snowmobile Enforcement Fund established under section 10258.

(3) The remainder is credited to the Snowmobile Trail Fund of the Department of Conservation, Bureau of Parks and Lands.

C. [2003, c. 614, §9 (aff); c. 655, Pt. B, §48 (rp); §422 (aff).]

D. The annual fee for each snowmobile dealer number plate issued pursuant to section 13109 is credited as follows:

(1) Thirty percent is credited to the General Fund as undedicated revenue; and

(2) Seventy percent is credited to the Snowmobile Trail Fund of the Department of Conservation, Bureau of Parks and Lands.

E. All money received under the provisions of this Part relating to snowmobiles, including chapter 937, other than that credited pursuant to paragraphs A to D, including snowmobile dealer license fees, is credited to the General Fund as undedicated revenue.

[Mainehazmt]

there is a hearing tommorrow in disgusta at 1:00  ya can listen to it on line   if ya cant go   fish and wildlife committee

[JimP]

Send in written comments

[keepah seekah]

i use my sled for trail riding and ice fishing, and i have to say, yes...im against this *censor* law. i do like billditrites idea, but at the same time, why should i have to pay extra to ride on these free trails that volunteers groom? i know tourist are a big part of the snowmobile season, so if they want more money to go to the clubs, why don't they charge the tourist instead of us? why don't they charge them 100 bux a sled if they are not with a club here in maine, and if they are with a club....keep the registration fee them same for em....the clubs gonna get money either way. i dunno....just a thought i guess.

[Out4Trout]

Clubs that maintain trails that by law are open to anyone riding a snowmobile. There are a lot of freeloaders.

So if the trails are open to anyone, then you really can't call any rider a freeloader. Even in a club, only 10 or 15% of the members actually donate their time to work on the trails, so does that make the rest of the members freeloaders? Any type of organization that depends on people to volunteer, there's only a small group of the same ones that do. That's just how it goes.

I have two lakes near my house and I can access them by trails groomed by the local club. I am a member and I think it's worth while to pay the $20 dues. I like riding on groomed trails, but I'm a freeloader because I don't have time to help.

There are many problems with this bill, one being that it is increasing the reg. fee by $45.00 - more than double! And even though I myself am a club member and get a break, I still have an increase. If you read why they are proposing the increase, it is to help the snowmobile clubs. The clubs may run on a shoestring, but this is the state forcing people to give $20 to a club to get a cut on their reg.   I know this point has been made a bunch of times, but it seems to get lost in some of the discussions.

It definitely needs to be shot down.

[Butch Moore]

The sticker idea may have merit, but I think it should be brought in again next year when the details have been worked out.  As some here have said already, and I've said elsewhere, why do the trails need to be "groomed" in the first place?  Before a new tax (oops...sorry, the new term is "fee") is passed, there should be justification for it.

Right now I'd have to be opposed to any increase, and I don't even own a sled.  This is nothing but a money grab, regardless of who's doing the grabbing.

And what's the "emergency" that got this bill into the "emergency" session of the legislature?  No emergency here that I can see, as this is recreation we're talking about, not necessity.

PS:  This is coming for ATVs as well folks. Take a look at my November Column for details.

[blacktrap]

Snowmobiling is a multi million dollar industry here in maine and alot of out of staters and mainers spend a lot of cash riding.  Groomed trails are a nesscitity to get people to come here and register their sleds and ride.

[keepah seekah]

i got a better idea. how bout they just drop this issue totally and worry about how to lower oil and gas cost in the state.

[Frozen__Nutts]

Snowmobiling is a multi million dollar industry here in maine and alot of out of staters and mainers spend a lot of cash riding.  Groomed trails are a nesscitity to get people to come here and register their sleds and ride.

there not a necessity(spelled properly)for me

[slt]

Blacktrap seems to know a lot about what the clubs do. I want to know who forces them to do it? If it costs so much and you can't keep up. STOP DOING IT. If your club is short of funds do what every other private organization has to do....Earn your money to fund your hobby. Open a soup and coffee stand on a trail, Hold a raffle, solicit donations but don't tell me I have to pay for your hobby.
   I hunt and I fish. I gladly pay for my licenses and permits so the state can stock some fish, pay the biologist and wardens and work on landowner relations. These resources I use and I am getting a return for my money. As far as I'm concerned the MSA can go fly a kite. I'll reiterate from my earlier post on this topic

A BUNCH OF CRY BABYS LOOKING FOR OTHERS TO PAY FOR THEIR FUN

Guess I'll go dig out my posted signs and close the trail

[robbfishing]

this is nuts the msa thinks its god or at least blacktrap thinks it is how do we regulate who uses what the attitude of some "club' members is what the real problem is i know a woman who was cross country skiing last week on property she had permission to be on and while on a club trail got harrased buy a "club"member telling her she was not allowed on his trail and asked if she pays dues well as amatter of fact her husband was going to join had his paperwork filled out and is now not joining     and yes she heard the sled comming 90 mph and got off the trail before the sled got near her so why did this guy think he could give her a hard time how would it have worked out if she was the land owner why does he think his trail is there the same land owner who gave this woman permission to ski also gave the club permission for the trail just because the club has a trail dosent mean they own it

[blacktrap]

there not a necessity(spelled properly)for me

Thanks for the spell check.  

[fiddlehead322]

 

[blacktrap]

Blacktrap seems to know a lot about what the clubs do. I want to know who forces them to do it? If it costs so much and you can't keep up. STOP DOING IT. If your club is short of funds do what every other private organization has to do....Earn your money to fund your hobby. Open a soup and coffee stand on a trail, Hold a raffle, solicit donations but don't tell me I have to pay for your hobby.
   I hunt and I fish. I gladly pay for my licenses and permits so the state can stock some fish, pay the biologist and wardens and work on landowner relations. These resources I use and I am getting a return for my money. As far as I'm concerned the MSA can go fly a kite. I'll reiterate from my earlier post on this topic

A BUNCH OF CRY BABYS LOOKING FOR OTHERS TO PAY FOR THEIR FUN

Guess I'll go dig out my posted signs and close the trail

Most clubs do some or more than all of the fund raising things you mentioned.  If there  is a better way I'm all for it.  Not trying to get anyone mad or irritated.  Just discussing an issue that will affect anyone with a registered snowmobile.  If a workable trail pass could be done than I would support a reduced registration for ice fishing that takes away the money in the current registration for trail funds.

[pfd168]

Sounds to me that we are against this thing so I guess its time to talk to our legislature

[SLH]

Blacktrap seems to know a lot about what the clubs do. I want to know who forces them to do it? If it costs so much and you can't keep up. STOP DOING IT. If your club is short of funds do what every other private organization has to do....Earn your money to fund your hobby. Open a soup and coffee stand on a trail, Hold a raffle, solicit donations but don't tell me I have to pay for your hobby.
   I hunt and I fish. I gladly pay for my licenses and permits so the state can stock some fish, pay the biologist and wardens and work on landowner relations. These resources I use and I am getting a return for my money. As far as I'm concerned the MSA can go fly a kite. I'll reiterate from my earlier post on this topic

A BUNCH OF CRY BABYS LOOKING FOR OTHERS TO PAY FOR THEIR FUN

Guess I'll go dig out my posted signs and close the trail

This is why I got you the "Doesn't play well with others" T-shirt like Greg Loyd used to wear.

[Butch Moore]

An Act To Improve Funding for the State Snowmobile Trail System   

Committee of Reference:   Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, Thu Feb 8, 2007
Latest Committee Action:   Work Session, Tue Jan 8, 2008, Tabled, Ext. To 1/31

work session coming up soon

[slt]

Thanks for the info Butch. Until today I didn't really give a hoot one way or the other about snowmobiles but this seems to have gotten under my skin

[hawgzilla]

? Also what about all the gas tax money we pay that is actually a road use tax?

JimP

In case some of you don't know this, you can get all that tax money back at the end of the year....it's a separate tax form your accountant can fill out for you.  I keep all the gas receipts for gas used in my boat, lawnmower, auger, snowmobile, chainsaw and snowblower add up all the gallonage for the year that is used "OFF ROAD" .  AT .40 some-odd cents tax per gallon, it adds up quick especially when your running a decent size bassboat and all that other equipment.   The taxes on each gallon of gas are a road tax so whatever gas you use "off road" is NOT subject to the road tax.  The way I figure it, Augusta and the Feds piss away enough of my money so I want ALL of what's owed me.   

[pennreels]

Hawg,
 Whos your accountant?

Tom

[JimP]

Dude, Thanks for the tax tip. I will start saving receipts. Yes, it adds up. I bet you are a minority for taking the time to get your money back. I am guessing that they do pretty well in this area of undeserved funds. No more from me... 

I'm with you, they get enough from my paycheck, property taxes and the rest of the fees and add-ons. Then they have the nerve to waste way to much of my hard earned money. Just because I bust my arse, work OT, to have a boat and a wheeler and some fishing gear they have no right to ask me to pay more cause they know I love what I do and will pay more while lazy sob's suck the system for all its worth without giving it a thought.

Back to the issue. Look at all of the money the state takes for the general fund from snowmobile registration dollars. If they need more money for grooming, and I think that groomed trails are in everyones interest because snowmobiles mean big money, especially for northern Maine, they should give back THAT money. Afterall that is what it is supposed to go for.

[slt]

Snowmobiling is a multi million dollar industry here in maine and alot of out of staters and mainers spend a lot of cash riding.  Groomed trails are a nesscitity to get people to come here and register their sleds and ride.

If these people you speak of stayed home it would suit me fine. I was sentenced to a 3 year stint working in a "snowmobile town" a few years back. I've seen the caliber of people that show up. Most, not all ,but most are a bunch of drunken yahoo's with no respect for the trails, others, or towns they visit. Seem to think their tourist dollars are a license  to act any way they want.....no they can stay home....people survived before the snowmobile bussines and they will survive after