Panfish Limits

[Fishslayer81]

Redear are panfish but they have a 25/day limit.

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/fishing/fishing-regulations/

I am well aware of the limits and regulations and abide by those laws.

[sprkplug]

I think in many cases it comes down to deciding if you want to catch loads of average bluegills, or a few big bluegills. I don't see any way to have both in public water. At least not on a perpetual basis.

[High Tide]

Lol are you kidding me with that reply on the no contest? Slayers fish bigger and thicker only way the Michigan fish beats Indiana in weight would be from all the extra mercury in their bellies from Detroit lol! Outweighs.... I'm rolling still on that reply...

No not kidding you at all, when it comes "pure gill" no contest. His are much more round, and more of a pure strand of gill.

Unlike, you I fish south of Fort Wayne, Fort Wayne, north of Fort Wayne all the way to Belaire, Michigan, and hold licenses in Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Illinois, not because I need to travel to catch fish either... LOL My sample size includes lakes thorough out these states, and when you actually weigh the fish it's and eye opening experience. I'm not saying you and 81 don't put very nice fish on the ice on a normal basis, but its surprising to hear you make a statement like panfish limit will kill your lakes when you don't fishing much outside of Fort Wayne? So if it isn't good for you, it's not good for everyone?

Like I was telling a buddy the other day that loves to fill buckets every chance he gets, and is oppose to the limit. I said he reminded me of a drug addicted, because the state was taking something away... his ability to fill buckets (the drug), and there was NO way that there was a problem(drugs), because he could still fill buckets (function in everyday life). 

[High Tide]

Don't we do this every year?? 
Paul

Yes, because its fun!  and this time it looks like its gonna happen... So we're actually talking about something that has merit.

[sprkplug]

No not kidding you at all, when it comes "pure gill" no contest. His are much more round, and more of a pure strand of gill.

Unlike, you I fish south of Fort Wayne, Fort Wayne, north of Fort Wayne all the way to Belaire, Michigan, and hold licenses in Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Illinois, not because I need to travel to catch fish either... LOL My sample size includes lakes thorough out these states, and when you actually weigh the fish it's and eye opening experience. I'm not same you and 81 don't put very nice fish on the ice on a normal basis, but its surprising to hear you make a statement like panfish limit will kill your lakes when you don't fishing much outside of Fort Wayne? So if it isn't good for you, it's not good for everyone?



Like I was telling a buddy the other day that loves to fill buckets every chance he gets, and is oppose to the limit. I said he reminded me of a drug addicted, because the state was taking something away... his ability to fill buckets (the drug), and there was NO way that there was a problem(drugs), because he could still fill buckets (function in everyday life). 

I hear you on weighing the fish....you wouldn't believe the numbers of supposed one pound bluegills that I have weighed that never came close to that mark once an accurate scale was produced.

Those anglers soon discovered that "Big as my hand" was a poor substitute for a scale.

[High Tide]

I hear you on weighing the fish....you wouldn't believe the numbers of supposed one pound bluegills that I have weighed that never came close to that mark once an accurate scale was produced.

Those anglers soon discovered that "Big as my hand" was a poor substitute for a scale.

I remember the day when I found out I was a liar!

[sprkplug]

I remember the day when I found out I was a liar!

You too? I know I've choked down my share of humble pie!

[Gills-only]

Kinda like deer hunting, everyone wants to shoot a big one, but they take a smaller buck to eat, that's fine, but the smaller buck next year might be the big one next year, personal choice!!  The 6-7" fish will be the 9" in couple years, nothing wrong with either choice!

[Rabidgupy]

No not kidding you at all, when it comes "pure gill" no contest. His are much more round, and more of a pure strand of giull.

Unlike, you I fish south of Fort Wayne, Fort Wayne, north of Fort Wayne all the way to Belaire, Michigan, and hold licenses in Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Illinois, not because I need to travel to catch fish either... LOL My sample size includes lakes thorough out these states, and when you actually weigh the fish it's and eye opening experience. I'm not saying you and 81 don't put very nice fish on the ice on a normal basis, but its surprising to hear you make a statement like panfish limit will kill your lakes when you don't fishing much outside of Fort Wayne? So if it isn't good for you, it's not good for everyone?

Like I was telling a buddy the other day that loves to fill buckets every chance he gets, and is oppose to the limit. I said he reminded me of a drug addicted, because the state was taking something away... his ability to fill buckets (the drug), and there was NO way that there was a problem(drugs), because he could still fill buckets (function in everyday life). 

.

HT READ my Jimmerson lake post. If you think that a limit will help every lake then you better go back to school and take Biology 101 over. You fish all over that's great I could care less about it. Sure there's monster gills in lakes in Minnesota for example cottages covered so thick in midge bug hatches their black on color gills eating themselves sick puking out hatches stunting in lakes with an abundance of food isn't going to EVER be an issue. There's trophy lakes in every state it all boils down to fishing pressure amount of food available and harvest which usually coincide with pressure but in a state where fishing pressure is on the DECLINE that's not an issue. Harvest to me also includes numbers eaten by predator fish. BOTH piles of fish are sweet FKs taken from a lake where limits supposedly help I'm betting it's not the limits but the mass amount of natural food source the gills are stuffing themselves with. So that being said in Indiana being a warmer state and fish being cold blooded their metabolism is greater in Indiana lakes than in Michigan lakes or any other northern state lake for that matter is basic 101 entry level thought process that surely you've ran across in some of the rags you read. With all the weed killer used in lakes where I fish the abundance of food supply is not anywhere close to that of Michigan and where there's lack of food with a lack of harvest I'll show you stunted fish over and over and over again. I can show you eye opening experiences an hour west or north of the fort. Call me when you get another 20 years under your belt of knowledge until then continue wasting your money and time driving around to the fifty some lakes you fish. I'd rethink your thoughts for sure though based on metabolism food source habitats weed killer ect... that's the problem when your fishing lakes with hot bites nothing to compare anything on where as Jimmerson lake I'm just stating factual proof of what happens from lack of harvest and lack of food source great formula for dink fest!

[wax_worm]

I hear you on weighing the fish....you wouldn't believe the numbers of supposed one pound bluegills that I have weighed that never came close to that mark once an accurate scale was produced.

Those anglers soon discovered that "Big as my hand" was a poor substitute for a scale.

We had some nice gills Saturday, 9.25 - 9.5 inch fish and weighed the top 5 and they were just shy of 2.5 lbs.  So they were each around 1/2 lb.  They were not skinny, but not thick either.  It takes a special gill in thickness and tallness to get any were near the 1lb., range.

[sprkplug]

Rabidgupy, I get where you're coming from, but there's a difference between a small bluegill and a stunted bluegill. You cannot ignore the effect that genetics has on a population of fish. If a Bluegill is mature at 5-6" and building nests, then the population is off kilter. And yes, food supply plays an important role...very important. But it is not the sole factor in deciding whether or not a BOW will stunt. If the big males are missing from the population, the younger fish will begin to mature at a younger, smaller size. And small but mature, equals stunting.

[wallydiven]

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HT READ my Jimmerson lake post. If you think that a limit will help every lake then you better go back to school and take Biology 101 over. You fish all over that's great I could care less about it. Sure there's monster gills in lakes in Minnesota for example cottages covered so thick in midge bug hatches their black on color gills eating themselves sick puking out hatches stunting in lakes with an abundance of food isn't going to EVER be an issue. There's trophy lakes in every state it all boils down to fishing pressure amount of food available and harvest which usually coincide with pressure but in a state where fishing pressure is on the DECLINE that's not an issue. Harvest to me also includes numbers eaten by predator fish. BOTH piles of fish are sweet FKs taken from a lake where limits supposedly help I'm betting it's not the limits but the mass amount of natural food source the gills are stuffing themselves with. So that being said in Indiana being a warmer state and fish being cold blooded their metabolism is greater in Indiana lakes than in Michigan lakes or any other northern state lake for that matter is basic 101 entry level thought process that surely you've ran across in some of the rags you read. With all the weed killer used in lakes where I fish the abundance of food supply is not anywhere close to that of Michigan and where there's lack of food with a lack of harvest I'll show you stunted fish over and over and over again. I can show you eye opening experiences an hour west or north of the fort. Call me when you get another 20 years under your belt of knowledge until then continue wasting your money and time driving around to the fifty some lakes you fish. I'd rethink your thoughts for sure though based on metabolism food source habitats weed killer ect... that's the problem when your fishing lakes with hot bites nothing to compare anything on where as Jimmerson lake I'm just stating factual proof of what happens from lack of harvest and lack of food source great formula for dink fest!

Do you not realize that over harvest can have the same effect on a lake as under harvest? Taking all the big fish out isn't automatically going to mean that all the little fish will get bigger just because there is more food for them to eat.

[High Tide]

 Call me when you get another 20 years under your belt of knowledge until then continue wasting your money and time driving around to the fifty some lakes you fish.

Okay, I'll report back when I get more experience... Sorry to waste your time.

[Rabidgupy]

Do you not realize that over harvest can have the same effect on a lake as under harvest? Taking all the big fish out isn't automatically going to mean that all the little fish will get bigger just because there is more food for them to eat.

There's plenty of good fish just the numbers of smalls are getting more plentiful the bedding areas are everywhere fish population is out of control and the food source is dwindling due to weed killer high boat traffic ect..... what don't you understand about lack of harvest and lack of food source hopefully I made that a little more clear in the Africa post it's not rocket science lol

[blackbear]

I think Rapidguy and fishslayer ought to put on fishing seminars. Maybe the rest of us that don't know how to fish can become more knowledgable. lol

[Rabidgupy]

Spark I already know all of that. I'm giving you 43 year history of a lake in northern Indiana. Started out a fishing lake like many northern Indiana lakes. As years  passed fishing shacks were bought side by side two at a time replaced by monster cottages. Fishing boats replaced by speed boats and giant cruising toons. Weed killer because their foot touched a weed. Nobody fishes at all. Lack of food from lack of weeds no more pad fields ect.. numbers of bedding locations growing in size it's crazy. There's many lakes north of the fort exact thing going on.

[wax_worm]

Spark I already know all of that. I'm giving you 43 year history of a lake in northern Indiana. Started out a fishing lake like many northern Indiana lakes. As years  passed fishing shacks were bought side by side two at a time replaced by monster cottages. Fishing boats replaced by speed boats and giant cruising toons. Weed killer because their foot touched a weed. Nobody fishes at all. Lack of food from lack of weeds no more pad fields ect.. numbers of bedding locations growing in size it's crazy. There's many lakes north of the fort exact thing going on.

You are saying the same thing, except you blame it on underharvest, but the real problem is the size structure went to crap due to too much spawning habitat, lack of food and NOT ENOUGH big fish.  The bigger gills were either caught out, starved out or died of old age.  That lake is a lost cause unless they kill it off and start over.  No regs are going to fix a lake with too much spawning area.  It is a self fullfilling prophecy there, to many small spawners creating too many offspring which hog the food and don't allow proper growth.  Even if the lake were killed off and started over it would repeat itself over time unless they reduce the number of spawn sites or protect the larger males so they can cover all those areas up and keep the smaller male focused on getting bigger.

On a side note lets try to keep this civil and fact based and not challenge others fishing credentials when they have proven themselves to be a tremendous fishemen.

[sprkplug]

Okay, you've got eyes on, I don't. You're going to have a much better feel for what's happening than I do, but I would like to suggest another possibility.

You blame the smaller bluegills on weed eradication, resulting in a reduced food supply, and a lack of fishing pressure. That is logical, but there's a flip side to weed eradication.....it reduces cover for younger, smaller fish. if a BOW has an adequate predator base, they should be hammering those smaller gills well before they reach spawning size.

The fact that the BG population is stunting makes me consider this:

1) There's a shortage of predators.....at least in some size ranges. Fished out when the lake was in it's heyday? Maybe. Once gone, genetics are gone until restocked.
2) There's a shortage of larger bluegills. If the BG population is maturing at a smaller size, it's a possible indication of over fishing of large specimens, also when the lake was in its heyday. Again, a population struggles to recover without an infusion of fresh genetics, and protection for those genetics. A Bluegill will not automatically grow larger if it's genetically predisposed NOT to....such as a case where there is no need to....no bigger fish to compete against.

Adequate forage is fundamental to growing big fish. But it does not guarantee success.

[Fishslayer81]

I think Rapidguy and fishslayer ought to put on fishing seminars. Maybe the rest of us that don't know how to fish can become more knowledgable. lol

It is silly comments like this that ruin forums...I am not claiming to be a expert. all I am saying is there is great fishing in Indiana waters...the pics were to show proof. I do not think a 25 panfish limit will do anything. however implementing catch and release during the spawn could easily make a difference. panfish need to be harvested... taking all the males off of beds is what does the destruction, not keeping a 100 fish thru the ice.

[High Tide]

81, call me crazy but gupy comes off like he knows he's a superior fisherman and the rest of us are blessed with his presences. He does make some great post, don't get me wrong and I appreciate his opinion, and it's a good thread.

I know I shouldn't be replying based on my lack of experience on panfish, but SPLUG hit the nail on the head. Hopefully when they put the limit in place they also start restocking some improved genetics at the same time that would be a perfect world!

[Mrwiggler]

81, call me crazy but gupy comes off like he knows he's a superior fisherman and the rest of us are blessed with his presents. He does make some great post, don't get me wrong and I appreciate his opinion, and it's a good thread.

I know I shouldn't be replying based on my lack of experience on panfish, but SPLUG hit the nail on the head. Hopefully when they put the limit in place they also start restocking some improved genetics at the same time that would be a perfect world!

 ^^^^^^  X2

[Gills-only]

Implementing a 25 fish limit, if done would be a law, however implementing a catch and release off beds could never be enforced!

[Fishslayer81]

Implementing a 25 fish limit, if done would be a law, however implementing a catch and release off beds could never be enforced!

How is that so? the DNR checks you and if you have a bluegill in the livewell your busted...its not that difficult. It would be easier to enforce since the regulation would be seasonal instead of 12mo a year.

[Gills-only]

So I'm setting on the break casting into deep water with a bluegill I caught another part of the lake, it can never be proved it was caught on or in a bed!!  Limit it to 25 Done Deal!!  The only ones that would benefit from this would be lawyers, even if they filmed you doing it they cant prove that fish was on the beds!  Only way stop all fishing from April - June, which would be insane!!

[wax_worm]

81, call me crazy but gupy comes off like he knows he's a superior fisherman and the rest of us are blessed with his presences. He does make some great post, don't get me wrong and I appreciate his opinion, and it's a good thread.

I know I shouldn't be replying based on my lack of experience on panfish, but SPLUG hit the nail on the head. Hopefully when they put the limit in place they also start restocking some improved genetics at the same time that would be a perfect world!

I have fished with all 3 of you and you are all super good guys.  Things got a bit heated here because people are passionate about the sport which is a good thing.  If we can all get that passion to be directed in the same direction instead of opposite ones we would be in great shape.  Some how the whole topic got swayed to thinking the panfish limit would 'fix' lakes are already in bad shape.  It won't and no one will tell you it will.  But for those lakes that have good fishing now, it likely will maintain that fishing for years to come or impove the size structure in some.  Should the limit pass, nothing prevents you from catching 100's a day, you just have to throw some back like when on a hot crappie or red ear bite. 

[wax_worm]

So I'm setting on the break casting into deep water with a bluegill I caught another part of the lake, it can never be proved it was caught on or in a bed!!  Limit it to 25 Done Deal!!  The only ones that would benefit from this would be lawyers, even if they filmed you doing it they cant prove that fish was on the beds!  Only way stop all fishing from April - June, which would be insane!!

Would not be insane for them to close bluegill from april 15th to June 30th.  Plenty of other fish to target and if you catch a gill it has to go back in the lake.  If in possession of a gill in that time frame you are breaking the law.  It will never get to that point and even if the limit is imposed, they won't have enough man power to enforce it and there are ton's of law breakers out there that will flip the bird at any regs in place and do what they want.

[Rabidgupy]

81, call me crazy but gupy comes off like he knows he's a superior fisherman and the rest of us are blessed with his presences. He does make some great post, don't get me wrong and I appreciate his opinion, and it's a good thread.

I know I shouldn't be replying based on my lack of experience on panfish, but SPLUG hit the nail on the head. Hopefully when they put the limit in place they also start restocking some improved genetics at the same time that would be a perfect world!

I'm not trying to come off like a superior anything HT I ran your vex28 up to PTO from my shop to help you out. I respect everyone's input not trying to disrespect anyone's ideas all I can report on is what I see going on in the lakes in my bodies of water that for the most part are under attack as weed beds continue to get destroyed so does the food source and habitat. I only have 43 years of my knowledge that I'm sharing about those bodies of water and how in most of those lakes a limit would hurt. In other spots it would greatly help I'm not a public speaker like you HT so like I said I mean no harm and not dissing anyone on the site or the way they fish. I'm just saying you can't lump Indiana lakes in as a whole due to the diminishing habitat and food source with the lack of harvest I'd going to be devastating IMO if you feel different about it that's fine too. It's great to see the younger guys like yourself to have the same passion for the sport. I learn from some of your thoughts as well. About the only time our opinions have clashed not a big deal to me but apparently it is to you.

[Fishslayer81]

81, call me crazy but gupy comes off like he knows he's a superior fisherman and the rest of us are blessed with his presences. He does make some great post, don't get me wrong and I appreciate his opinion, and it's a good thread.

I know I shouldn't be replying based on my lack of experience on panfish, but SPLUG hit the nail on the head. Hopefully when they put the limit in place they also start restocking some improved genetics at the same time that would be a perfect world!

I think Scott is pretty knowledgeable and a good fisherman. he may be coming off that way because he is being put on blast by a few here. I also think you and Sparkplug are very knowledgeable and I enjoy reading your posts. I believe we can all agree that something should be done but we do not share the same viewpoints on how it should be done and that is ok. Either way I will still go fishing no matter what the regulations are. If I can only keep 25, well that just means the Ol' retired folk that can not get out any longer will not be receiving the fish they use too.

  I guess I do not look at bluegills the same as others do. They are just table fare, I do not care about catching monster gills...the 7.5-9" are perfect eaters. If I want to go fishing for trophies, I make a trip to Florida fishing the saltwater flats for Reds and Snook. We all have our opinions here...what I do not like is the jabs a few insist on throwing in this thread. Saying the majority of the fish we catch are 5-6", or we should put on seminars because we think that we are experts is complete nonsense. I do not claim to be a expert and I never insisted once that I was...however I do agree with Rabidgupy that there are quite a few lakes that have BIG gills in Indiana. I know for a fact I could go out during the spawn and catch a mess of 9.5-10" gills around here when the Bull Males are easy pickens. However I do not really care to do that. I take my fish thru the ice then I am done for the year.

[Fishslayer81]

So I'm setting on the break casting into deep water with a bluegill I caught another part of the lake, it can never be proved it was caught on or in a bed!!  Limit it to 25 Done Deal!!  The only ones that would benefit from this would be lawyers, even if they filmed you doing it they cant prove that fish was on the beds!  Only way stop all fishing from April - June, which would be insane!!

I am saying you can not keep any bluegill during the Spawn, just like Michigan does for bass. Gillz do not spawn in April... From Memorial weekend to July 4th would be a good time to limit gillz to catch and release.

[Fishslayer81]

I have fished with all 3 of you and you are all super good guys.  Things got a bit heated here because people are passionate about the sport which is a good thing.  If we can all get that passion to be directed in the same direction instead of opposite ones we would be in great shape.  Some how the whole topic got swayed to thinking the panfish limit would 'fix' lakes are already in bad shape.  It won't and no one will tell you it will.  But for those lakes that have good fishing now, it likely will maintain that fishing for years to come or impove the size structure in some.  Should the limit pass, nothing prevents you from catching 100's a day, you just have to throw some back like when on a hot crappie or red ear bite.

Agreed!! Good post Wax!!!