Flathead lake trout article

[missoulafish]

Thanks Mike!

[Quantoson]

I received yesterday the comments submitted to the CSKT from the FWP in regard to the proposed netting.  It is clear the FWP does not endorse the proposed actions of netting.  It is 3 letters and I have been told by FWP that I may share these without any restrictions.  I will try to load them on the Facebook page and if that does not work I will email them to Andy to be posted on the site.

There have been individual offers to help from Ohio and New Hampshire.  If we can keep the momentum going, and with the help of other states affected by these actions this might prove to be fruitful for the general public as a whole.

I am awaiting contact from Rich Lindsey this morning concerning the meeting last night on Priest Lake Netting. 

Oh yeah, former F&G personnel now work for Hickey Brothers, the firm that gets all the contracts for the gill netting in these instances.  I don't think it ever goes out to real bid.

[Cornbread]

I received yesterday the comments submitted to the CSKT from the FWP in regard to the proposed netting.  It is clear the FWP does not endorse the proposed actions of netting.  It is 3 letters and I have been told by FWP that I may share these without any restrictions.  I will try to load them on the Facebook page and if that does not work I will email them to Andy to be posted on the site.

There have been individual offers to help from Ohio and New Hampshire.  If we can keep the momentum going, and with the help of other states affected by these actions this might prove to be fruitful for the general public as a whole.

I am awaiting contact from Rich Lindsey this morning concerning the meeting last night on Priest Lake Netting. 

Oh yeah, former F&G personnel now work for Hickey Brothers, the firm that gets all the contracts for the gill netting in these instances.  I don't think it ever goes out to real bid.

Sounds great! I have the code now to do a scrolling feed of your blog's atom feed on the main page of the site whenever you are ready to do that. I am traveling for work later today, and will be gone until Sunday possibly longer as I may need to go over to ND and MN this coming week but if you get me a link to your feed I will have it show like the five or ten newest articles on your blog that way the minute you post we get fresh content on the site and Google crawls Blogger pages as they own Blogger so the more content you post the more traffic we should see coming in off Google etc.

[Quantoson]

I am uploading today all the docs, should have the google site ready this evening.

[missoulafish]

Is there anything else the minions need to do in the mean time?

[Quantoson]

missoulafish
Standby and if you non-monetary resources available to you that we may garner and utilize please PM me.

Thank You for offering.

[Stephan_K]

Is there anything else the minions need to do in the mean time?

SPREAD THE WORD !  Talk to everyone about it possible.  Make it water cooler talk....... The more exposure this gets the more that will get involved.  I think that's the largest problem with these kind of (political) issues, they hanging on the ends of the political spectrum and are rarely seen or heard until it's too late.  It never makes it to the main stream.  And the masses are not out there looking for it.  So the more we can inject these issues into casual conversation creating productive discussion on the matters the more people will want to get involved. 

[missoulafish]

Priest lake article and survey results....
http://www.cbbulletin.com/425278.aspx

[wingnutty]

Personally, if it were a possibility that a viable kokanee fishery could be vastly improved by managing lake trout via gill netting, etc., then I wouldn't dismiss it.  The reason I say this is because we are having a frighteningly large number of lakes convert to lake trout fisheries to the detriment of other fisheries; I'd hate to be sitting here in 50 years and complaining because the only species worth fishing for is lake trout and that might not be too far fetched of a possibility if things continue as they have over the past 50 years.  Please read below and don't assume I am a proponent of gill netting flathead as a result of these statements....

Saving a kokanee fishery is partly what MTFWP is trying to do in the swan (although the primary fish for targeted improvement is bulls, kokanee should also benefit if macs are reduced....let's also remember that the swan project is very much a research project in its own right to see if results can be shown).

Problem with flathead is that there won't be a viable kokanee fishery ever again.  Any increase in bulls will have negligable benefits to the recreating public.  We might see an improvement in perch fishing, but that is a big unknown and really hasn't been discussed much.  I am 100% unsupportive of the lake trout removal from Flathead, as I don't believe there will be any benefits for the public and that, instead, a prime fishery will be sacrificed. 

[Jim F]

What I don't understand is, How the think they can run blatant over the entire lake when their waters are only aprox 1/2? IF they destroy the south
half of the lake they will have a severe impact on the north end which isn't in there territory. There has to be a joint effort here between the CSK and FWP.
If FWP bows out, they are relinquishing control  of non tribal waters to tribal powers. This is unacceptable, an likely illegal. FWP cannot pull out of this.
If they want to rid the south half of the lake of non native species, I say a underwater fence needs to be constructed east to west on the boundary line, at the tribes expense.

[Quantoson]

Jim F

Unfortunately when they signed the FY2001 4(e)-Conditions submittal and the CSKT took over operation of the Kerr dam, this somehow gave the tribe control of the complete dtrainage area and Flathead Lake.

Here is the link, http://www.cskt.org/tr/docs/kerr_4submittals.pdf this is 75MB with 205 pages.  What makes this so large is the high resolution maps it contains.  I will have this posted on the web page as well.

[PerchAssault]

NOTHING will ever be the same on Flathead due to the migration of the Mysis shrimp downstream from the lakes that FWP put them in in the 60's.

I don't get the comments about "we are having a frighteningly large number of lakes convert to lake trout fisheries to the detriment of other fisheries". Yes there are lake trout in lakes in the Flathead drainage, and have been since lake trout were introduced into Flathead Lake. 

Are they present? Yes. Can something be done about them in these smaller lakes? Yes. List these lakes please so I can start fishing them as I would LOVE to help be a solution and remove some of them. And if you mention Swan, please explain why, if it is such and issue, why there is still a 10 fish limit on Lakers on any of these lakes where they are such a problem.

When you get to see the EIS, or read the ISRP comments to the CSKT project, there will be no benefit to the yellow perch fishery so to even suggest "We might see an improvement in perch fishing, but that is a big unknown and really hasn't been discussed much". I would like some basis for this comment.

I ain't picking on anyone, and this is not personal, I am debating the comments made and that is all, thats why we are here, right?

[Quantoson]

Jim,

The FWP has tried on several occasions to prevent the gill netting.  Here are 3 letters they sent to the tribe.  The second one really states it how they see it going as far as to say the CSKT Boilogist is using deceptive practices in reporting..
https://sites.google.com/site/gillnettingflatheadlakethewest/documents/fwp-letter-to-cskt-march-1-2012fwp-not-joining-cskt-on-nepa-process-1

https://sites.google.com/site/gillnettingflatheadlakethewest/documents/fwp-letter-to-cskt-september-7-2012stating-deceptive-practices

https://sites.google.com/site/gillnettingflatheadlakethewest/documents/fwp-letter-to-csktfwp-does-not-support-lake-trout-suppression

The petition will be modified to reflect our or my endorsement of the FWP recommendations and comments.

[wingnutty]

NOTHING will ever be the same on Flathead due to the migration of the Mysis shrimp downstream from the lakes that FWP put them in in the 60's.

I don't get the comments about "we are having a frighteningly large number of lakes convert to lake trout fisheries to the detriment of other fisheries". Yes there are lake trout in lakes in the Flathead drainage, and have been since lake trout were introduced into Flathead Lake. 

Are they present? Yes. Can something be done about them in these smaller lakes? Yes. List these lakes please so I can start fishing them as I would LOVE to help be a solution and remove some of them. And if you mention Swan, please explain why, if it is such and issue, why there is still a 10 fish limit on Lakers on any of these lakes where they are such a problem.

When you get to see the EIS, or read the ISRP comments to the CSKT project, there will be no benefit to the yellow perch fishery so to even suggest "We might see an improvement in perch fishing, but that is a big unknown and really hasn't been discussed much". I would like some basis for this comment.

I ain't picking on anyone, and this is not personal, I am debating the comments made and that is all, thats why we are here, right?

First, believe I specifically stated that any lake trout mgt in flathead will likely not provide the fishing public any benefit and that I am against it, so don't take my comments so personally. 

Regarding a potential improvement in the perch fishery, yeah, there might be, there might not be???  NOBODY KNOWS, including you!  Nobody knows what would happen to the lake ecosystems and food webs if lake trout are reduced, not the scientists, not the tribe, not FWP, not you and not me !  I was speculating, just like you are, just like everyone is. , I did not say "hey, perch fishing will improve, so let's net the lakers!" It's all a big gamble, and a gamble not worth taking, imo.  But to summarily dismiss that a decrease in lake trout numbers won't have the potential to improve the perch fishery is short-sighted.  Can you say, with 100% certainty that the perch fishery won't possibly see improvements...because if you do say so, I'd like to see your research to back up the statement.  It is all a big unknown and nobody really knows for certain how removing lake trout will affect the lake and if someone tells me they do know, then I say BS.  IMO, it is most likely that gill netting the lake trout will have no measurable benefits to the lake's other fisheries, other than depleting the lake trout fishery, but NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE.

In regards to lake trout expansion, absolutely it is/has occurred.  No question about it.  I don't think there are any fisheries biologists who would disagree that lake trout generally have negative impacts on other fisheries.  So yes, lake trout expansion IS something to be concerned about, without doubt.  What to do about it?  Well, that is the million dollar question.  That is why it is important to watch the management actions being take on the Swan and on lakes in adjacent states; keeping in mind that each individual fishery is unique and will likely respond differently.  But, I so not summarily dismiss actively researching control methods on a small scale, such as in the Swan. I DO NOT support large-scale, "willy-nilly" approaches to fisheries mgt such as a massive gill netting effort on Flathead Lake.

Regarding limits, regs, etc...I don't know, I don't set limits, I'm not a fisheries biologist.  I can't help that sometimes regulations don't make sense and they have no bearing on the points that I have made.  If I could set the limits, regs, etc., they would be different for sure.  If I had a magic wand I would also set FWP's primary emphasis on managing fisheries for the fishing public (I think there are a good number of FWP folks who would do the same, but their hands are tied politically and legally).

[Jim F]

I would support a "no limit" on fish under say 24 inches, keep the slot limit and the rest, as they are.
There are IMO, too many small fish in the lake as evidence by the numbers of slot fish that I have caught that
have huge heads and skinny, snake like bodies. They are undernourished. There are some fatties that eat well though.
I dont understand that part of the biology. Lake trout are prolific breeders. If they want to reduce the numbers
why not remove limits on smaller fish, or go to a bounty systems like other states have done.

[PerchAssault]

Jim F

Unfortunately when they signed the FY2001 4(e)-Conditions submittal and the CSKT took over operation of the Kerr dam, this somehow gave the tribe control of the complete dtrainage area and Flathead Lake.

Here is the link, http://www.cskt.org/tr/docs/kerr_4submittals.pdf this is 75MB with 205 pages.  What makes this so large is the high resolution maps it contains.  I will have this posted on the web page as well.

Herb, great job on your page, we all need to share this with everyone we know.  The report by the ISRP on the revision to the draft EIS is a MUST read.

Mike
www.aablefishing.com