wanahoo

[IceDoc]

Upland..... I couldn't agree with you more!!!

[Uplandhuntr]

Upland..... I couldn't agree with you more!!!

Thanks for the note, not trying to get too off-topic, but if this was on the popular local Nebraska forum, it would have been deleted.  Why can't people ask educated questions without someone getting their hackles up?  Guess their 15 members are pretty sensitive.

Sorry if it is a little extra work to trap and transfer a few fishes (other than trout that have to be fed special food to make their flesh the 'right' color....how can I opt out of my license $$ going for that project?) to create some fisheries that are more attractive to those of us that buy fishing licenses.

Funny that the NRD's, power coops,  and private landowners create a TON more fishing opportunities than the state of Nebraska, but the state biologists take credit for all of it, until the water disappears and then the NGPC folks blame it on all those evil people.

But make sure you buy your license to fish it all!!

[teehjaeh57]

TJ,
Why so appologetic about your opinion?  I would rather have someone with practical experience be honest than blow smoke up someone's donkey.

I appreciate all that folks do as well, but is it so wrong to ask that those in charge of the state's fisheries be more PRO-ACTIVE than RE-ACTIVE? 

I can tell you this, the hunting opportunities in NE are getting fewer (not NGPC's fault, no habitat equals no critters) and thus less $$ from hunting licenses in the near future.

Better start focusing on maximizing fishing opportunities.  There is a brand new reservoir in northeast NE that is filling as we speak that is flooding hundreds of acres of 'habitat' for species such as northern pike and yellow perch.  I guarantee that the yellow perch and northerns will last longer than stocked rainbow trout that will die in less than 8 months, and would draw a ton of folks that usually travel out of state for those same opportunities.

Some states even manage water levels to promote plant growth in the 'off' season for spawning habitat in the spring.

When Nebraska NGPS quits catering to the Mahoney State Park, private water fishing, stocked trout fishing, camping with a 3 slide-out with dual ac camping, 'sportspeople'.....they might again start connecting with the average Joe that will pay the bills.

Until then, the NGPC will continue to 'react'.

Yes, lots of great people work for NGPC, but that doesn't mean we can't ask some hard questions about their continued philosophy that is resulting in fewer opportunities.

Thanks for the give and take, that is how adults can have discussions regarding important issues without getting all crabby.

Tell us more about this Northeast NE reservoir.  Any clue on the proposed fishery?  What's the primary source of irrigation?  Size? 

[krkazebeer]

So now that we have the world of fish management figured out can we use this thread to talk about CATCHING these fish at Wanahoo.  Has anybody iced a freakin Northern out of there or is it a big waist of time?

[Ionbling]

thats what im saying. i want to know if i should even take the time.

[12ICEFISH]

Sorry about my comment not having to do anything with Wahahoo, but just want to chine in on the fisheries discussion. I support our state, by buying licences, and park stickers etc. And yes i even have one of those fifth wheels with slide outs, but I also pull a boat behind it, and spend as much time as I can on the water. Now I have licences from neighboring states in my billfold as well, and believe me they are more important to me than the Ne one. That is just too bad! You'd think the G&P could get some pointers from those neighbors, and use what's been successful to create something to keep guys like me home?

Now, in their defense, we have to have sportsmen and maybe more importantly land owners that will support favorable habitat practices. We have a ton of farmers, that really don't care if there's game, and fish for us to harvest, and how can you blame them with the $$ they get for every ounce of grain they produce.

I've been a Pheasants Forever committee member for over 20 years, and am seeing our efforts go by the wayside where I'm at, basically because of conservation programs being phased out. I'm lucky to be part of a group that cares more for the hunting and fishing, than the $$, and therefore do have successful hunting, and fishing close to home. That being said, and what I've been reading in this posting, I have to believe there can be a turn around. People, this is just like a retirement fund. You have to contribute, so that you will have plenty to draw from down the road, and also be drawing as you contribute. It's all a mindset! We need support in Washington, as well as in Lincoln. Kudos to those on board, and hope maybe some will think again next time asked to support a conservation group.

[BojiHawk]

My 2cents:  stocking of fry is a joke.   Relying on sheer mortality ratios isn't working.  WillowCreek is one example.  That lake is teaming with crappie.  Number one meal for crappie?  Lil minnows  Where do fry head when released...to cover.  Cover = trees =crappies house.  I imagine a6" crappie could eat 15-20  .5" fish of any kind in a day.  Then throw in cats and bass.  Stocking 1500 6" walleye makes more sense to me...even make the lake catch and release until its established.   2004 saw a great walleye population.  UNfortunately.....ther e were 50 boats a day there for a month....limits for all.  3 anglers times 4 fish - 12 fish per boat.  50 boats is 600 15"+ walleyes.  Assuming only weekend + 1 day....that is over 5000 walleye in a month.   Lakes need emergency, immediate limit reduction or catch and release only.  By the time the regs. go through all that red tape...the lake is dead.  Upper Red lake and Mille Lacs in MN are prime examples of what overharvest does to a lake.  Pretty simple to take 1 walleye and a handful of crappie home for a nice dinner.   Walleye taste good...I agree...but they are not as "renewable" as crappie, yellow bass, gills. etc.

[alpinistmp]

Caught a 32" northeren last saturaday with my wife out at wanahoo, dont ask where. Was immediately release so I know they are in there. Funniest part of the whole deal is he smashed a perch colored bluegill pill jig with two waxies on it. Thought I layed into a large bass when he hit.

Mark

[hillbill]

Heading there agin in the am, maybe I will get a pike upthis time.  White/rust F150 Clam Nanook stop and say hi.  I will have a rookie with me so it could be entertaining when the ice starts popping!! 

[Uplandhuntr]

Tell us more about this Northeast NE reservoir.  Any clue on the proposed fishery?  What's the primary source of irrigation?  Size? 

Google search Pigeon Jones near Hubbard.  NGPC has had it listed in their handbook of available fishing waters for at least two years even though the dam wasn't even built until this last summer, and probably won't be open for fishing for a while.

It is actually a NRD body of water, but the NGPC lists it and will likely require a park sticker to access it.  NGPC doesn't patrol NRD waters, but requires stickers in a lot of cases because it 'manages' it.

The entire system is jacked up in my opinion.  In my opinion, the NRD's do the heavy lifting initially, the NGPC takes over the 'management' of said waters without really monitoring them for park stickers, the sheriff and highway patrol folks are put off because they get the calls when there is a complaint....it is a messy system.

Good luck on Wanahoo for those that can get out to enjoy it!!

[okcableguy]

I'M GOING TO THE EASTERN GTG!  YAY! 

[Clunk]

Headed out to wannahoo early am.....will get a feel for the fish......and let u know......

[jordy1380]

I wanna head out to wannahoo in the am to try my luck. You guys been having most luck along the.tree edges or open water. I might be out there all.day so might just try both. I think I'll set up some tip ups to give it a try to!

[Clunk]

Fish wannahoo this morning.....arrived right before sun up and every hole I drilled had some fish in it...caught 7 good crappie right away and then they shut off.....trolled through the trees and caught some gills..no real big ones.....most people were fishing east of the trees...I stuck to the middle anywhere from 8 to 15 fow....

[whitetips]

Wow, I've learned a lot more than I ever thought I would in this thread.

When Nebraska NGPS quits catering to the Mahoney State Park, private water fishing, stocked trout fishing, camping with a 3 slide-out with dual ac camping, 'sportspeople'.....they might again start connecting with the average Joe that will pay the bills.

Until then, the NGPC will continue to 'react'.

Still will not produce yellow perch fisheries where the habitat will not support them or will only marginally support them.

The new reservoir in northeast NE would be a great place for some yellow perch as well.  Maybe we can talk the NRD into it before the NGPC gets their claws into it.

Um, how many fisheries biologists work for Nebraska Natural Resource Districts?

Funny that the NRD's, power coops,  and private landowners create a TON more fishing opportunities than the state of Nebraska, but the state biologists take credit for all of it, until the water disappears and then the NGPC folks blame it on all those evil people.

You are partly right, for the most part the Nebraska Game & Parks Commission is NOT in the business of building reservoirs.  Seems as though the only justification to build a reservoir in Nebraska is for things like flood control, power generation and let's not forget irrigation.  And then we are asked to produce fish & wildlife and recreational benefits from those waters with no control over water levels whatsoever.  Call it blame if you want, it is my reality.

Sorry if it is a little extra work to trap and transfer a few fishes (other than trout that have to be fed special food to make their flesh the 'right' color....how can I opt out of my license $$ going for that project?) to create some fisheries that are more attractive to those of us that buy fishing licenses.

We use a lot of stocking strategies depending on the species and situation.  In some cases, for example where we want an immediate presence of adult predator fish, we have "trapped and transferred" adult fish.  But, most of the time it is more effective, and less expensive, to use fish produced in our state fish hatcheries.

You seem to have a problem with the put & take trout we stock in heavily-used parks and urban waters across the state.  If you do not want to fish for those, don't.  I hardly spend any time pursuing them myself.  But understand the objectives behind that management strategy:  We stock those catchable-size trout in heavily used park and urban waters because we want to provide easy fishing opportunities in areas where a lot of beginners, kids especially, can catch a 10-inch trout and GET HOOKED ON FISHING.  Rainbow trout have been domesticated for a long, long time and are real easy and inexpensive to raise to the 10-inch size when they are stocked.  We believe that is a good investment because it is exposing more folks to angling.  Once we get them hooked they can move on to bigger and better fish like yourself, and they will be additional anglers who support the management of all of our fisheries in the state.

My 2cents:  stocking of fry is a joke.   

Yes, it is. . . . In some cases.  In other cases stocking of fingerlings, advanced fingerlings or even adult fish is a joke.  There is no one stocking strategy for any species of fish that is THE BEST in all situations.  For example, we have some waters in the state where fry stocking of walleyes is VERY successful (Willow Creek Reservoir has been one of those places), but in other cases we have had better success with fingerling stocking or even advanced fingerlings.  The point is we will tailor stocking strategies to what works best and if we are not having the success we hope for we often try something else.  Keep in mind that the larger fish are raised before stocking the more hatchery space they take and the more they cost.  Fish stocking can become a "numbers game" where stocking larger fish may produce better survival, but we can obtain the same results by stocking even more smaller fish for less cost.  It all depends and as I said, there is NO stocking strategy that is magic.

Lakes need emergency, immediate limit reduction or catch and release only.  By the time the regs. go through all that red tape...the lake is dead.  Upper Red lake and Mille Lacs in MN are prime examples of what overharvest does to a lake. 

We have the ability to do that and at times we have implemented emergency regulations.  However, there needs to be some darned good reasons for doing that.  Fisheries are dynamic, always changing.  Hot bites come and go, and there will always be good years and bad years even on the best of fisheries.  It is better to use good fisheries science to come up with sustainable, long-term management objectives including harvest restrictions and then evaluate those over a period of years rather than managing by knee-jerk reactions.

Oh, I believe Upper Red Lake and Mille Lacs in Minnesota both have the added challenge of having tribal claims and harvest rights that must be met.  As a result the fisheries in those waters are monitored very closely and heavily regulated.  When the subsistence harvest has been determined then regulations are set for the sport fish harvest.  Minnesota fisheries biologists put a lot of time into monitoring and managing those fisheries, and the tribal claims ratchet that up a whole 'nother level.  If we do not have to go there, we do not want to.

Now, back to fishing . . .

Daryl Bauer
Fisheries Outreach Program Manager
Nebraska Game & Parks Commission
[email protected]
http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/blogs/category/barbs-and-backlashes/


 

[Uplandhuntr]

Daryl,

You can roll your eyes, I can take it without being offended.  I am not much of a politician so I tend to say what I think, and I don't  think it hurts for the NGPC to hear logical, experience-based comments from their consumers.

Please clarify one point for me.  You say NRD's don't have biologists on staff.  I do remember a post regarding Wanahoo's original specie list of stocked fish, and maybe this is the part I don't recall correctly.  I thought for sure that I read where the NRD did some of the stocking of species, and the impression I got was that the species were not 'ideal' for that body of water.

Maybe I am not remembering it correctly (I can admit when I am wrong without shame or ego). 

So my question is, did the NRD stock fish in Wanahoo in addition to any stocking that the NGPC did.  Also, who put the pike in Wanahoo?

Thanks, in advance.  I do appreciate the give and take, and it clears up a lot of coffee shop rumors when you participate.

[Uplandhuntr]

You seem to have a problem with the put & take trout we stock in heavily-used parks and urban waters across the state.  If you do not want to fish for those, don't.  I hardly spend any time pursuing them myself.  But understand the objectives behind that management strategy:  We stock those catchable-size trout in heavily used park and urban waters because we want to provide easy fishing opportunities in areas where a lot of beginners, kids especially, can catch a 10-inch trout and GET HOOKED ON FISHING.  Rainbow trout have been domesticated for a long, long time and are real easy and inexpensive to raise to the 10-inch size when they are stocked.  We believe that is a good investment because it is exposing more folks to angling.  Once we get them hooked they can move on to bigger and better fish like yourself, and they will be additional anglers who support the management of all of our fisheries in the state.
Now, back to fishing . . .

Daryl Bauer
Fisheries Outreach Program Manager
Nebraska Game & Parks Commission
[email protected]
http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/blogs/category/barbs-and-backlashes/

Isn't stocking trout as a put and take species, admittedly to get more people fishing (revenue)?  Little panfish provide good action and will survive winter.  The only thing little panfish doesn't offer is the ability to TAKE SOMETHING HOME TO EAT.  Doesn't encouraging youth to keep every trout they catch counter-intuitive to your stance on selective harvest?  Teaching a child to keep every trout they catch is not breaking the cycle.

I have found with my Wee One that tossing some fish back from the very first time I took her out has prevented the mentality that we need to keep every fish we catch.  To be honest, she never learned to keep every fish til we got our limit.  Putting fish back is 'normal'.

In my opinion, money used to raise, transport and stock rainbow trout into waters unsuitable for the species to survive is also in stark contrast to your opinion about not stocking species of game fish into waters won't sustain them, in the NGPC's opinion.  But yet, you have no problem endlessly promoting the trout stocking program?

I am confused on these two points, specifically. 

Good conversation, thanks for indulging me.

[GRIZZ08]

So my question is, did the NRD stock fish in Wanahoo in addition to any stocking that the NGPC did.  Also, who put the pike in Wanahoo?

my guess is the NRD did no stocking of fish in wanahoo as i work along side the PMR-NRD in a different agency and i know on all of there lakes the NGPC does all of the stocking and what fish to put in it and we dont really have much say in it at all.  i would love to see the NGPC try and get some cool water species started in the the pigon-jones watershed project (new dam in NE nebraska) as the PMR-NRD is going to keep control of the park and not the NGPC.

[okcableguy]

Is it Friday night yet?  I'm ready to go fishin!

[whitetips]

Some additional comments. . . .

First of all, I am all about discussions and communication with anglers--that is my job, that is just about all I do.  I absolutely want to hear your comments and questions, even complaints.  I will try to listen to the best of my ability, but keep in mind that I cannot keep my mouth shut.  I am going to reply too.  Hopefully we all learn something from the discussion, from the give and take of ideas!

Nebraska's Natural Resource Districts (NRD's) have been and will continue to build a few reservoirs mostly for flood-control purposes.  If those reservoirs subsequently will be open to public recreation, regardless of ownership or maintenance of the area, Nebraska Game & Parks Commission fisheries biologists are almost always involved with planning, construction and fisheries management of those reservoirs.  Nebraska Game & Parks fisheries biologists were involved with the planning and construction of Lake Wanahoo and much of that work started years ago.  That is why many of the features of that reservoir were placed there with water quality and fish habitat in mind.

We are involved in the planning and construction of the new Pigeon-Jones project in northeast Nebraska.  Who ultimately manages the recreation area there may not be known for sure, yet, but from a fisheries management standpoint it makes no difference--Game & Parks fisheries biologists will be involved in the planning and construction of the reservoir and will be responsible for all fisheries management activities.

All fish stocking at Lake Wanahoo and all fish stocking on all public waters in the state is done by the Nebraska Game & Parks Commission.  No NRD stocked any fish in Lake Wanahoo.  Keep in mind that all fisheries management is a blend of fisheries science and yes, politics.  Fisheries management decisions are made as much as possible based on sound science, but at times other opinions enter the mix.  I ain't saying that is good or bad; that is the system of fish and wildlife management we have in this country and it is the best in the world.

Most of the waters where we stock the catchable, put & take rainbow trout also offer other species for folks to catch.  The beginners and kids can and do go there to catch bluegills, bass, catfish, whatever other species are found there.  Again I am going to say it, the trout are easy to raise to a catchable size, can be raised to that size in a short amount of time and are very inexpensive to produce.  We are NOT investing large portions of our fisheries management budget in that program and there is no stocking for any other species of fish that is being denied or minimized because we are producing and stocking put & take rainbow trout.  Those hatchery trout are not the sharpest tacks in the box and are relatively easy to catch especially during the cool and cold-water portions of the year when they are stocked.  I do not know what it is about trout, but folks go nuts over the opportunity to catch those put & take fish in the urban and parks waters where they are stocked. 

You guys will take offense at my sarcasm, but let me use some to again make a point:  I would love the opportunity to catch blue marlin in eastern Nebraska, so why doesn't the Game & Parks stock blue marlin?  There are many things to consider when deciding which fish to stock, but one of the most important is HABITAT.  "Habitat is where it's at"!  New reservoirs in eastern Nebraska may initially provide some habitat conditions capable of supporting cool-water fish like northern pike and yellow perch.  However, habitat conditions in man-made reservoirs change over time, and they especially change in the early years after they are first filled with water.  Should we stock species that will thrive for a short period of time and then decline as habitat conditions change?  Or should we stock species that will be most successful over the long-term life of the reservoir?  Should we give anglers opportunities to catch species that they might not normally have the chance to catch and then spend the next several decades explaining why there is more to it than just stocking more of those fish?

Daryl Bauer
Fisheries Outreach Program Manager
Nebraska Game & Parks Commission
[email protected]
http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/blogs/category/barbs-and-backlashes/

[BojiHawk]

I agree with your posts Daryl.  I do trust the people hired and appointed to be trustees and maintainers of our fisheries.  (And yes....tribal limits in Upper Red and Mille Lacs is 100% the reason for the collapse of those lakes due to politics of rights.  But....what are you going to do?   Think we took enough from them to begin with)

One thing Nebraskans fail to key on is that these are NOT GLACIAL LAKES. Therer is little to no natural reproduction of walleye due to lack of stoney and gravel bottoms.  Hence the somtimes flakey spring bite.   Lakes such as the Iowa great Lakes and other northern GLACIAL lakes are mostly interconnected and thousands of years old.  They bloom...and then collapse...look at Big Spirit this year....prime example. 

That being said...it is very difficult to maintain northern "species" (yellow perch, walleyes, pike, etc.)  Crappies, gills, bass....yes, they are easy to maintain with selective harvest and aren't as sensitive to water levels, temps, drawdown, etc.  So....trying to grow tomatoes in Nome, Alaska is not going to work.   The NGPC is nearly trying to do something along those lines in some lakes just to appease the masses screaming to turn a lake like Wagontrain into Waubay....it's not going to happen.  Some pike, big cats, pannies, and some walleyes will thrive.  I've seen some of the walleyes from those waters down there....they look brown and beat up compared to Oahe and glacial lake fish.  So....change your target species.   Like to eat em?  Grab some crappies and eater sized cats.  But looking for limits of walleye and perch and such within an hour of Omaha is unrealistic.  I'm sure I'll hear some tales of guys than limit every time at ____lake and so on....but it's just not feasible.   Might as well start stocking Dahl Sheep around Crofton.