Temperature this morning

[shantysitter]

Why don't most river's freeze solid? Current. Same reason lakes won't freeze with heavy winds.The H2O produces waves, waves break up any ice that's started and prevents ice from forming.

[Wizzofd69]

Why don't most river's freeze solid? Current. Same reason lakes won't freeze with heavy winds.The H2O produces waves, waves break up any ice that's started and prevents ice from forming.

If its cold enough anything will freeze 

[projoe]

i think more or less what he was trying to state was during a warm period the wind will prevent the water from warming up as fast as it would when the water is calm, which in theory would allow a body of water to freeze quicker when cold weather is in place. water that is 45 degress will freeze faster than water that is 50degress if that was the only differing variable. idk how true this is but is how i read his statement. might make sense since running waters such as streams are cooler than still or stagnant waters in the summer. just my .02 cents.

[saxmatt]

Water that is moving due to wind and current does cool down quicker than stagnant water which is why streams and rivers are colder than lakes and ponds in the summer. In the winter that same movement caused by wind and current PREVENTS the water from freezing unless it is ridiculously cold, which is why those cold streams and rivers rarely freeze, and the big lakes take longer than the small protected ponds (though deep water also has something to do with it)

[KneeDeepSteve]

A cold windchill will make the ice freeze faster? I didn't feel like reading all of the responses and im sure I am repeating this but wind is never good for ice making or ice fishing. I also have noticed that on really windy days I have far less luck and I have always wondered why. It could do with not being able to watch my line as well or it could be that I am miserable and just thinking about sitting on my warm couch. I do think that it has some affect on fishing though; maybe its the sounds produced by ice shifting due to the wind, who knows. Usually wind is accompanied with a front moving in and that could be what is shutting the fishing down, especially on those high pressure blue bird days.

[bayonne]

going down to lows in the 20s and teens next week might get out this season

[AJ Flag]

Now that's what I like to hear@!!!

[privateeyes]

I agree about not having much luck on windy days. It is always better ice fishing when it is calm or little wind.

[fishgalore]

Can someone please explain to me why ice has formed on my pool cover in the last 2 hrs? I'm really confused because it's very windy outside. In fact if sax is right it should be melting it and breaking it up!!  Oh yeah and don't tell me that it's because it's a small body of water.............caus e I'm gonna show you one much bigger tomorrow.......I hope.

More to come with proof................. you'll see. But I bet the naysayers will remain naysayers!! LMAO

[saxmatt]

Can someone please explain to me why ice has formed on my pool cover in the last 2 hrs? I'm really confused because it's very windy outside. In fact if sax is right it should be melting it and breaking it up!!  Oh yeah and don't tell me that it's because it's a small body of water.............caus e I'm gonna show you one much bigger tomorrow.......I hope.

More to come with proof................. you'll see. But I bet the naysayers will remain naysayers!! LMAO

I'm guessing ice is forming because it's 25 degrees and there are no giant waves on your pool cover...lol

[fishgalore]

I'm guessing ice is forming because it's 25 degrees and there are no giant waves on your pool cover...lol

How about 28 with a 16 degree wind chill on Mt. Hope? That's exactly what I've been saying you'll see. BTW it will be forming on the edges by the morning and getting thicker near shore before it starts to make its way, with wind, outward toward the center of Mt. Hope pond.

[saxmatt]

I hope some places flash over tonight. It's going to get down to 20 and the wind is supposed to die down under 10mph at 2am and be completely calm by tomorrow night. If you don't find ice there try looking for a smaller pond with trees around the shoreline. I'm going on a scouting trip tomorrow too. One of my first ice spots had 2-3" before the rain and if it held up it might be good to go on Friday 

[saxmatt]

I'm using the same one as you. We could be in business! Here is the wind from your weather site starting at 1am (3 hour increments)

11 mph WNW (300°) 8 mph WNW (290°) 7 mph WNW (290°) 7 mph West (270°) 7 mph WSW (250°) 6 mph SW (220°) 4 mph SSW (200°) 1 mph WSW(250°)

[fishgalore]

I'm using the same one as you. We could be in business! Here is the wind from your weather site starting at 1am (3 hour increments)

11 mph WNW (300°) 8 mph WNW (290°) 7 mph WNW (290°) 7 mph West (270°) 7 mph WSW (250°) 6 mph SW (220°) 4 mph SSW (200°) 1 mph WSW(250°)

I see that but don't forget about the gusts! At 10:59 tonight it was at 23 mph. So sustained winds thru til 4 pm tomorrow down to 6 mph may have gusts up to 10 +mph throughout the day.

[saxmatt]

Single digit winds aren't too bad. Usually there are some breaks in the wind and when it's this cold skim ice can form quick. A 10-15mph gust is nothing to worry about once things are skimmed over. It's the 10-30mph + constant winds that really mess things up.

[saxmatt]

Just realized that pic was a link to a video...classic! My buddies are going to get a kick out of it.

[Wizzofd69]

........you two are out of your minds lol. There's def no safe ice in jersey this weekend especially with fri, sat and sunday being around 50 with some rain. Start praying that next weeks forecast just holds up, and mother nature does its job, then we will all be in business.

[fishgalore]

........you two are out of your minds lol. There's def no safe ice in jersey this weekend especially with fri, sat and sunday being around 50 with some rain. Start praying that next weeks forecast just holds up, and mother nature does its job, then we will all be in business.

I don't think we will have safe ice this weekend I'm just trying to prove my point.............whic h is that ice forms in spite of the wind! The only person that seems to have remotely come close to understanding what I said is projoe..........everyo ne else thinks I believe that wind is the cause for ice forming..........not exactly........but it contributes (an effect) which makes conditions helpful by removing water surface warmth and thus lowers the surface temp of the water making it more likely to freeze with the wind than without it. Especially when the wind then dies down for a period and the temps remain at or below 32 degrees. But that need not be the case........and if I see ice on Mt. Hope this morning then my point is valid. It has remained windy through to now. NO ONE argued against my point using temperature as a significant factor just WIND as the factor. If ice formed overnight in any way, shape or form on Mt. Hope then my theory is correct. Since it has remained windy all night and was all day yesterday. In the words of HT.................end of story!!  LOL

[saxmatt]

I'm standing outside right now and it's calm and less that 20 degrees, perfect conditions to make ice! Go out there and find some to prove me right. I definitely don't think there will be safe ice in Jersey this weekend. The ice I'm going to check today is a few hundred miles north 

[tonyrad]

OK, one more opinion that will just add to this jungle warfare.

The lake needs to turn over to cool the topmost layer to 32 or slightly less. Actually the warmest water is at the deepest point in a lake in winter due to the physics of weight of water and current temp. Even though heat rises, the warmest water is at the bottom. There can be a 1 - 2 degree difference down deeper. OTHERWISE ... the entire body of water from top to bottom would freeze at 32 or a hair less.

Wind as "Galore" says contributes to ice making / forming, but ice can not form if the water is moving or rippling, thats why you need to pay attention to signs on docks that say thin ice / open water, when bubblers are in use. Bubblers cause water movement and ripples on a timed schedule to keep docks from being frozen and damaged in winter.

Wind can help cool the water to make ice formation less ardoudous and also keep it from setting up if it is to strong. Ever notice how water can freeze after being sprayed onto something while its still moving, like a snow gun.

I'll bet this helped as much as throwing throwing gas on a fire when it's out of control.

[bmxrider11976]

well it was 14 at my house this morning. idk what in the world you guys or talking about, but ill let you keep bickering!!! i'm going ice scouting!   

[saxmatt]

This thread has been very entertaining and has helped pass some time while waiting for ice. The bad news is the wind was worse than I thought last night. I just drove around and found some very small ponds that were completely locked, but anything bigger than 5 acres was open water with a little skim around the wind protected shorelines, including some placed that I thought would lock up. Can't wait for next weekend!

[fishgalore]

This thread has been very entertaining and has helped pass some time while waiting for ice. The bad news is the wind was worse than I thought last night. I just drove around and found some very small ponds that were completely locked, but anything bigger than 5 acres was open water with a little skim around the wind protected shorelines, including some placed that I thought would lock up. Can't wait for next weekend!

I agree and fun too! Well I have a video to upload but I regret that at 6:10 am today there was no ice forming at Mt. Hope pond. Just ice on the beach layering from the waves blowing up on the shoreline. So right now I have not proven my point. However, I did go back up after work and took a video of calmer conditions and ran into another fisherman. When walking the dog near the southeast shoreline there was some ice in a protected area that had formed to about 10' away from the shore but a miniscule area for sure. I will try to post the video later if I can otherwise, soon.

[fishgalore]

OK, one more opinion that will just add to this jungle warfare.

The lake needs to turn over to cool the topmost layer to 32 or slightly less. Actually the warmest water is at the deepest point in a lake in winter due to the physics of weight of water and current temp. Even though heat rises, the warmest water is at the bottom. There can be a 1 - 2 degree difference down deeper. OTHERWISE ... the entire body of water from top to bottom would freeze at 32 or a hair less.

Wind as "Galore" says contributes to ice making / forming, but ice can not form if the water is moving or rippling, thats why you need to pay attention to signs on docks that say thin ice / open water, when bubblers are in use. Bubblers cause water movement and ripples on a timed schedule to keep docks from being frozen and damaged in winter.

Wind can help cool the water to make ice formation less ardoudous and also keep it from setting up if it is to strong. Ever notice how water can freeze after being sprayed onto something while its still moving, like a snow gun.

I'll bet this helped as much as throwing throwing gas on a fire when it's out of control.

Good post Tony...........thanks for the contribution!

[shantysitter]

I agree and fun too! Well I have a video to upload but I regret that at 6:10 am today there was no ice forming at Mt. Hope pond. Just ice on the beach layering from the waves blowing up on the shoreline. So right now I have not proven my point. However, I did go back up after work and took a video of calmer conditions and ran into another fisherman. When walking the dog near the southeast shoreline there was some ice in a protected area that had formed to about 10' away from the shore but a miniscule area for sure. I will try to post the video later if I can otherwise, soon.

Anyone have any popcorn? Why would there be any ice in a protected area? By protected do you mean no wind? I think that you just proved my point. Hopefully there will be ice soon enough then I don't think any of us will care how it got there.

[saxmatt]

I shot my own video today that completely DEBUNKS you're whole theory. Maybe you'll man up and actually admit you're wrong after watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5TajZYW6Y

[bmxrider11976]

i just got rick rolled  anywayssssss. both arguments have validity. fishgalore, your hypothesis that the surface water temp is kept colder by the wind is correct. sax matt, your point that wind destroys ice and keeps it from forming is also true. the ice can not form if the water is moving with the wind rippin across it. it is the same thing as a river at that point (and we all know how well ice forms on river). there is a magical moment though when that wind that has been keeping the water cold, finally stops, and then the water is calm. at that moment, AND ONLY THEN, can ice form. (temperature permitting)

[fishgalore]

I shot my own video today that completely DEBUNKS you're whole theory. Maybe you'll man up and actually admit you're wrong after watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5TajZYW6Y

That's great.........classic as you said...............I think I already partly manned up but I'm not ready to completely man up yet.

[fishgalore]

i just got rick rolled  anywayssssss. both arguments have validity. fishgalore, your hypothesis that the surface water temp is kept colder by the wind is correct. sax matt, your point that wind destroys ice and keeps it from forming is also true. the ice can not form if the water is moving with the wind rippin across it. it is the same thing as a river at that point (and we all know how well ice forms on river). there is a magical moment though when that wind that has been keeping the water cold, finally stops, and then the water is calm. at that moment, AND ONLY THEN, can ice form. (temperature permitting)

Does the Niagara constitute a river? I ask because in April of 1985 we did a 2nd honeymoon there at the Falls and the chunks of ice at the base of the falls were about 8' (not inches) thick and covered the whole area at the base of the falls (ie no open water whatsoever but it would have been very clumsy to walk on those discombobulated giant ice cubes). If you wanted to fish there no auger was long enough to penetrate and make you a hole. Of course you could have hired a well drilling company to drill for you. LMAO................mo reover I believe that skihunter fishes the Delaware river when it freezes (I know only sections that aren't moving as fast is what he's saying) but sometimes we don't think through all the POSSIBILITIES. I do though!! I can't help myself. hehe

Shantysitter.........i f I'm wrong I will admit it. Right now it's only partly wrong. I have to convince myself. LOL

[saxmatt]

If you're really serious about seeing how wind affects water temps you're going to have to go about what you are doing in a more scientific manner. You'll need years of sample data and you need to take into account all the conditions. At the very least you need to take surface temperature readings at different areas of the lake bofore the wind starts, during the wind, and after the wind stops. You also need to take air temperature readings, log wind speeds, and note how sunny it is and how many hours the sun is hitting the water. I wouldn't bother with the wind chill factors because those are calculated in realtion to what your 98 degree body feels. This time of year surface temperatures of lakes are already around freezing temps (mid 30s-low 40s depending on the lake) and if you have a 45-50 degree windy day and the water is in the 30s the combination of the warmer wind and the sun beating down on the water and bottom will actually warm up the surface (even though the wind chill might be below freezing.) If you get a windy day in the 20s then the wind will help the water cool down faster but at the same time it will prevent it from freezing. River ice is a different story and forms in a bunch of different ways. I fish coves of rivers where the water is calm enough to make ice. Ice also forms in curent breaks created by rocks, trees, shorelines etc...During the day the sun heats those pieces of structure causing the edges to melt allowing the current to sweep the ice downstream away from the structure. These chunks of ice congregate in areas like deep pools and at the base of waterfalls. The mist thrown off by the falls also freezes almost instantly on cold days when it reaches any surface (just like freezing rain) and this can cause feet of ice to build up.