Vex, etc flashers, bah, humbug!

[hollis]

 OK, calm down all you flasher lovers, unclench yer fists,  just joking BUT seriously I can't see the big attraction. I have  a Colorpoint  flasher and tried other people's  vexilars, but I don't see ANY advantage over a good LCD sonar.

The old arguments about them freezing in cold weather, well,... it depends on the model. Mine is rated down to -20. And the Old saw that  they are "not real time" isn't true anymore either. (I dare ya to react any faster than what the screen shows.)
I have mine set up so its very portable, yea, maybe slightly less so than the flashers but not much more and so much more readable. You can see with its very wide angle (I use a matrix with a quad head gives a 90 degree sweep.) I can see the jig that shows up as a moving echocardiograph like display and what level the fish are.
I notice misinterpretations  in guys saying about flashers that "you can see fish coming up from the bottom"  when in reality they are usually coming in from the side etc.  Here you can see fish that are farther away and bring your bait to that level. In watching cam videos, it seems like often you have to do that more in the winter.
I wonder if its a psychological thing (no offense on this) like the colors ARE attractive in the bleak setting in winter on the ice and a red spot becomes exciting. I do have a color graph but its a bit pricey to bang around on the ice. I haven't looked up how it likes the cold.
I know guys that say things that they would rather leave without their pants than their Vexilars or other flashers but
Am I missing something?   

[jig-jig THUMP]

Hollis,
Whatever works for you.  I myself like the flasher units (have an FL-8 but am thinking of giving that to my budding ice-fisher 10 yr old and upgrading to an 18 or 20 but am also looking at the Marcums).  I like the flshers because you turn them on and they read right away.  I don't have to wait for the warmup screen (s) before I start getting the readings I want.  Maybe yours doesn't go through all of that. 
And I do move around alot (when in "Search Mode") so I am constantly turning the thing on and off between moves.
One thing I'll say that is a plus for the LCD's is that they track history so if you happended to be distracted when a fish approached your bait then you'd still be able to see that on your LCD screen (a few seconds after he's come and gone).

But hey, we're in the land of the free (Thanks to our current military and veterans of the past) so do what you want.

jjT

[AirManCam]

Hollis, you don't know what you have just started..I'll give it by the end of the day before this thread gets locked!

[hollis]

Good points Jig-jig,..Air man, I hope they keep it civil, the heading was a Christmas season joke to attract a bit of attention, I'm trying and willin to learn,..

[reubenpa]

I will buy ur fl 8 !!!!!!!!!!!!  I want one and am gonna buy one in a week or two if I can find one for a reasonable price

[Corporal Punishment]

I bought a humminbird 400tx that has the tri beam last year,but the transducer broke on me when I must of hit it on a rock under the boat.

I used it at my Dads pond last year through the ice with a Lawn Mower battery,and it worked great IMO!!!There was no delay in seeing the fish.The fish were just sraight lines,But was easy to figure out.....

[stumper]

All I got to say is that the statment about them coming up from the bottom when they are actually coming from the side is dead wrong. You may be able to seee them further out than us,but I only care whats happening right under my hole,which my flasher tells me. Otherwise,Hey if you like it,good for you,keep on ,keepen on.

[KingFisher1]

I like using a flasher because you can check the depth and check for fish without even drilling a hole. All you do is wet the ice and place the transducer right on the wet spot. It works great for finding structure or the edges of weed beds. It takes the guess work out of where to drill. Also the colors are cool.

[Scott Steil]

There are several major differences between an LCD graph and a flasher.  The biggest you will notice is the processor delay.  To the human eye a flasher is considered "real time".  As you lift your bait, it rises instantly on your flasher.  With an LCD there will be a processor delay as the unit has to process what it is recieving back.  In addition, if you fish where it actually gets cold, you will not be happy with the LCD performance in most cases.

The second issue would be Interference Rejection.  Most LCD graphs do not offer IR and the interference from other units is really bad with all the reflection you get from Hard Water.

I am not saying an LCD graph does not have its place, just that there are much better options out there for ice fishing.

[Thor]

There are several major differences between an LCD graph and a flasher.  The biggest you will notice is the processor delay.  To the human eye a flasher is considered "real time".  As you lift your bait, it rises instantly on your flasher.  With an LCD there will be a processor delay as the unit has to process what it is recieving back.  In addition, if you fish where it actually gets cold, you will not be happy with the LCD performance in most cases.

The second issue would be Interference Rejection.  Most LCD graphs do not offer IR and the interference from other units is really bad with all the reflection you get from Hard Water.

I am not saying an LCD graph does not have its place, just that there are much better options out there for ice fishing.

I really am not trying to start a war, but nearly everything you have said here is no longer true with a modern graph designed for the ice.  I have an X67c Ice Machine, and your criticisms of this unit are no longer valid.  The processor has no delay that I can discern.  The lure on the screen moves as soon as I twitch my rod, just as fast as these letters that I am typing appear on my monitor - instantaneously (or close enough that I can't see the difference).  Why do you think that a mechanical wheel on a flasher is much faster than today's modern electronics, where computer processors can make billions of calculations per second?

My unit is unaffected at temps down to -22F, which is colder than I ever fished in here in Pennsylvania.  Even if it did get that cold, I assume I would be in a shelter anyway.

The X67c has interference rejection, although I never needed to use it because ice fishing in PA isn't as popular as it is in other parts.  However, I have seen a post where someone said that interference can be cleared up by using the IR and/or adjusting the sonar depth range to exclude the first foot or two of the water column, which is where the interference mainly occurs.

I have seen flashers in action, and I prefer to look at the graph.  I would suggest that people try both before they buy and get what they like best.

[IceholeFisherman]

All I got to say is that the statment about them coming up from the bottom when they are actually coming from the side is dead wrong. You may be able to seee them further out than us,but I only care whats happening right under my hole,which my flasher tells me. Otherwise,Hey if you like it,good for you,keep on ,keepen on.

Have to disagree with this statement. This should be said as sometimes. Go to the Vex website and read how a flasher works. Fish comming in from the side do look like they are "coming up".

[Fishrmn]

I really am not trying to start a war, but nearly everything you have said here is no longer true with a modern graph designed for the ice.  I have an X67c Ice Machine, and your criticisms of this unit are no longer valid.  The processor has no delay that I can discern.  The lure on the screen moves as soon as I twitch my rod, just as fast as these letters that I am typing appear on my monitor - instantaneously (or close enough that I can't see the difference).  Why do you think that a mechanical wheel on a flasher is much faster than today's modern electronics, where computer processors can make billions of calculations per second?

My unit is unaffected at temps down to -22F, which is colder than I ever fished in here in Pennsylvania.  Even if it did get that cold, I assume I would be in a shelter anyway.

The X67c has interference rejection, although I never needed to use it because ice fishing in PA isn't as popular as it is in other parts.  However, I have seen a post where someone said that interference can be cleared up by using the IR and/or adjusting the sonar depth range to exclude the first foot or two of the water column, which is where the interference mainly occurs.

I have seen flashers in action, and I prefer to look at the graph.  I would suggest that people try both before they buy and get what they like best.

I've been saying basically the same thing for the last 15 years.  Yeah, I said 15 years.  If people would turn the fish ID feature off and learn to look at arches on a graph they would never buy technology that is 60 years old.  Would any of you buy a car that didn't have fuel injection?  I'll bet you can't find a vehicle that uses a distributor and points anymore.  Why would you not at least look at the new stuff with an open mind?

Fishrmn

[lotwfisher]

I think both units work great. The new lowrance ice machines are great, real time, dont freeze, and even have nice colours for those that like that. I still use my vexilar all the time on the ice. I like it and am used to it. But I also took my 332c off my boat this fall and installed it into a larger blue box for the winter on those days when I need 2 sonars. The fish coming in from the side theory is true on both sonars tho. It has nothing to do with the sonar but with the transducer beam. It is gonna happen unless your sonar shoots straight down with no cone at all. Not really a useful feature. I think people get used to one system and love it. I say get what suits you and what you like, it makes it easier to fish I think using any kind of sonar, but it is still the fisherman that has to get the fish to bite.

[trapperdirk]

I tested the x67c last winter and before and in no way does it freeze up nor is it LCD tech but TFT tech which is what the army uses. I did see issues with interference when around other units but it took the cold well and seemed just as real time to me as either the Marcums or Vexes we had out at same time .

I've also setup LCD graphs for icefishing and they will work if fish ID is turned off and scroll speed cranked up but I don't think they are as slick as the portability etc of units that were designed for icefishing in mind .

I like my flashers better even over the x67c icemachine for icefishing because setup seems easier and also the interference issues we noticed but the unit does its job and definately belongs on the ice . Just isn't my preference . I like my Marcums .

                             TD

[jimmygunns]

I thought I was sold on my x67c up until this past Feb in MN around the Leech Lake area.  -55F wind chill!  First time my eyelids froze together in my life!  Don't face the wind & blink!  Anyway, it had been great around the Fox Chain here in IL for the past 2 years I had used it, with 20F or so, but up there, in a shanty w/ a Big Buddy 2' away, I had nothing but problems with it.  My buddy's FL-18 worked like a champ!  I used it this summer (x67c), & it was fine, but that extreme cold (maybe it's just me, I do wear a helmet sometimes!) had some effect on that x67c!  Those of you that have it & love it, great!  But I'm sticking to my new FL-20 this year.  Anyone else use the new 20 yet???  Anyone interested in a slightly used x67c Ice Machine???  Ha!

[hollis]

Great and rational discussion guys, I thought that even with my disclaimer that someone would misinterpret it and react like I said bad things about their mother.

I think that guys that have developed skills with their flashers have all they need. I think its justthat  many will still say to others not to use LCD's for reasons that they are not real time and that the screens will freeze. That does apply to some units esp the older ones and "old saws" are hard to die. 

I do agree that most LCD's are not as portable but they certainly can be made much more so by setting them up. I have one mounted on a bucket with it sitting over a hole and the small battery (I use a rechargeable  12v drill battery with clips) a transducer set up to go thru the bottom of the bucket, The unit/bracket bolted to the top of the bucket cover  and I can set the whole thing over the hole which generally keeps the hole from freezing. I think in some ways to be more portable than my flasher however it does take up a bit more space on the sled.
 
Good points through about why you like one over the other.
I have a Zercom Colorpoint which seems pretty close to the fl-8's of Vexilars, I think they would have sold more if they had gone to red instead of orange. I DO think guys like that red effect. I do myself. Why might be a interesting paper by some psychology student.