Weight of snow on top of ice. Still safe?

[Noon]

Still being relatively new to the hardwater, I am trying to get as much information as possible to ensure I am practicing safe ice fishing. I have read over and over that 4" of black ice is considered safe. I know some guys fish on less, but I don't need to mess with that. And that if the ice is "white" ice or very bubbly, then about double is needed for safe ice, so about 8". My question is, let's say there is 4" of black ice, but a bunch of snow is on top of the ice. Does the weight of the snow significantly impact the safety of that ice?

[eriksat1]

4" clear black ice should be safe but it sure makes a mess with water being pushed up and slush under the snow. If the snow is heavy enough I have seen where water is gushing up through the holes you drill. That really makes me nervous. Enough water on top can help weaken the ice also. I hate when that happens because it can take weeks of below zero temps to freeze the slush all hard again under a bunch of snow.

[skifisher]

It all depends on how much snow you’re talking about...4”, 10”, 24” ? The weight of snow is a definite factor in ice safety. Also remember that ice thickness varies, and where it is 4”, a few feet away it might only be 2”. The thing to watch for is a difference in the color of the snow. Wet snow might indicate the presence of water underneath hence thinner ice or some other anomaly. Best to always fish with someone if you’re not sure, and always wear your picks. Not meant to scare you, just a few issues to be aware of. Stay safe! Ski

[eriksat1]

If much water is on top of the ice under the snow that 4" of ice can melt down to 2"-3" of ice in a day or two.

[hardwater diehard]

lots of good info

http://lakeice.squarespace.com/

[Icemole]

 Also keep in mind that 4" of black ice with little or no snow cover acts as a big solar panel on bright sunny days when you have borderline freezing temps.

[nocsious]

Would I consider 4" of ice safe?  Well if conditions were right I'd consider it safe enough, however I would continue to do a lot of checking as I moved around the lake.  Recent temps, sunlight conditions, open water nearby, shoreline, springs, docks, tree stumps, rain, snow load, waterfowl activity, shade, deep water, shallow water, air bubbles, etc...all contribute to my constant evaluation of the ice conditions. 

Granted 4" of good black ice on a cold day can hold a lot of weight, but I see all these new youtubers going out on thinner ice and I worry about the new people they bring to the sport that don't have the experience to judge ice conditions or know the procedures to test it out.   

[esox_xtm]

Too many variables... I ain't touchin' this with a 10 foot pole. Conditions and situations are extremely dependent on the moment for both early and late ice. Use your spud, experience and common sense to tel you what you should be doing. Sorry, I won't be an enabler.

And that's all I have to say about that...

[eyeflyer]

Way to many factors that can effect ice thickness and strength. I will never tell anyone is is "safe", I tell them if there was trucks on the ice and how much ice there where I was fishing and they can decide it if is safe. 

[SirCranksalot]

If much water is on top of the ice under the snow that 4" of ice can melt down to 2"-3" of ice in a day or two.

I don't think so. As long as the snow is there the temp will not be above freezing.

[perch chacer]

There are many variables to good safe ice or poor ice.  When you look at the chart for ice thickness required for one man on foot, multiple people in a group, snowmobile or wheeler, car or truck (2 ton) they are taking clear black ice in good cold conditions.  Only take those ice thicknesses as a general guide.  Your question about snow on the ice "does it add weight"?  Think of it this way - why do people shovel snow off there low sloped or flat roofs?  The answer is weight.

[Noon]

There are many variables to good safe ice or poor ice.  When you look at the chart for ice thickness required for one man on foot, multiple people in a group, snowmobile or wheeler, car or truck (2 ton) they are taking clear black ice in good cold conditions.  Only take those ice thicknesses as a general guide.  Your question about snow on the ice "does it add weight"?  Think of it this way - why do people shovel snow off there low sloped or flat roofs?  The answer is weight.

I definitely agree with all that you shared. Having limited knowledge myself and being mostly self taught when it comes to ice fishing, i am curious of the physics that accompany the weight of snow on ice. With a person, the weight is distributed to the two points of contact [each foot] but with snow their is a relatively even load being distributed to the entire ice surface. I am wondering  how this effects the strength of the ice below [assuming solid black ice]

[Kobey]

Like others have said, there are too many variables.  How much snow is "a bunch"?  The biggest factor for me when there is snow on the ice is that I have no idea what's under it.  That 4" may turn into 1" in just a few steps either way.  Another thing is, don't get lazy with the spudding.  On bare ice it's easy to spud your way out, but when you're walking through snow, you can get more fatigued and become a bit more careless with the ice thickness checking.

Always remember, no matter what anyone else tells you, no ice is safe until you've checked it yourself, and even then there can be surprises.  Make sure you have safety gear and feel confident you can do a self-rescue if needed before going out on any ice.

[Fish Butcher]

As others have said, so many variables. When snow melts and the resulting water stays on top of the ice, the ice is ok. Water seeping through the ice weakens said ice. Also, worth repeating over and over again, there is no such thing as “safe” ice!

[kpd145]

There is no hard and fast rule for ice thickness.

Use the resources that are available to you and make sure your safe. Bring a spud, ice spikes and rope.

I've fished on less than 3 inches and some days I've walked away from 4 inches because it just didn't look or feel right.

Black ice is obviously the safest due to lack of air trapped in ice.

There is no way to tell where the low spots of ice are underneath you. It an inherent risk for the sport we enjoy.

When walking take note, are my boot prints soaked with water or is it nice and crunchy, is ice black or does it have air, spud every few feet. How many times did it take before spud went through? Look for dips or ridges in the snow. That reflects what is underneath it. Avoid pressure ridges when at all possible.

[RyanW]

Granted 4" of good black ice on a cold day can hold a lot of weight, but I see all these new youtubers going out on thinner ice and I worry about the new people they bring to the sport that don't have the experience to judge ice conditions or know the procedures to test it out.

This 1000%

I see so many of these guys (with a massive following) post videos and most of the video is teaching bad habits that will get someone severely hurt one day. I usually get called a “grandpa” (I’m 31) or a hater for correcting their mistakes in the comments. Those youtubets are mostly young, dumb, and have too much money than they know what to do with. It doesn’t help that they usually post “I fell through the ice!” Videos just for the sake of monetary compensation. They are basically prostitites and dangerous ones at that. Now a days it’s the views that matter and not the knowledge behind safe ice angling practices. There are a couple real good ice anglers on YouTube but many of them shouldn’t be allowed on the ice.

I prefer at least 5” of ice. I’m never the first guy out and really appreciate a few tracks in the snow already. I like seeing ATV tracks too. If they don’t lead to a massive hole, well then, I think I’m alright. Another thing you should consider about ice thickness is current and springs. Spring fed waters can get real scary real quick. Above those springs, any ice thickness becomes irrelevant in a bad way.

[Noon]

I'd like to thank everyone for their time and information that you have shared with me. IceShanty has helped me so much in learning about one of my favorite new hobbies/passions. Stay safe everyone

[fishermantim]

This 1000%

I see so many of these guys (with a massive following) post videos and most of the video is teaching bad habits that will get someone severely hurt one day. I usually get called a “grandpa” (I’m 31) or a hater for correcting their mistakes in the comments. Those youtubets are mostly young, dumb, and have too much money than they know what to do with. It doesn’t help that they usually post “I fell through the ice!” Videos just for the sake of monetary compensation. They are basically prostitites and dangerous ones at that. Now a days it’s the views that matter and not the knowledge behind safe ice angling practices. There are a couple real good ice anglers on YouTube but many of them shouldn’t be allowed on the ice.

I prefer at least 5” of ice. I’m never the first guy out and really appreciate a few tracks in the snow already. I like seeing ATV tracks too. If they don’t lead to a massive hole, well then, I think I’m alright. Another thing you should consider about ice thickness is current and springs. Spring fed waters can get real scary real quick. Above those springs, any ice thickness becomes irrelevant in a bad way.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Everyone has to find out what they are comfortable with in regards to ice thickness. For me, 4" of clear, 6-8" of unclear ice.
That doesn't mean I will walk out blindly and "expect" it to be safe, but rather that is the level I start at and check repeatedly as I head out.
Snow definitely adds weight to the surface. On really cold days, you can find standing water that got trapped above the ice but under the snow. The ice formed, then it snowed, and then it rained or thawed a little and the resulting water will sit on top of the ice.
You find this out when walking out and you punch thru the snow cap into the slush pool beneath.
This adds much more weight to the ice, but is generally spread out over a wide area.

My best advice is when you hit a body of water, new or old, that you go with someone with experience or at least head out wisely.

For the record, there have been times when I would think about pushing my luck, usually on a late season outing, but then I'd get a "gut feeling" that it may not be safe and I turn around and head home.

Here's one thing that I found to be a little helpful. When heading out on a new or unfamiliar body of water I look for the shallowest shoreline access and head out from there. If I should fall thru there I can literally walk back to shore. I also found that the western shores will tend to have more ice than the eastern shores, mainly because the sun is lower in the western sky, so the shore doesn't get as much full sun as the east shores do. Oh, and a shaded shoreline is even better.

These things don't guarantee ice safety, but rather increase the likelihood that I will be able to check for myself. (refer back to "gut feeling" above)