Leader material

[vaughan]

My tip up fishing is usually for bass and Pickeral as that is what is in the local lakes.  Whenever I can go I go for pike I hit a few places on CT but generally go to Lake Champlain.  I have almost always used the knowable steel leader material with one hook or a quick strike rig if I am going for pike.  I'm thinking of changing over to Fluor leaders when fishing locally for bass and Pickeral as I have read there is  big difference.  Is this really true, I seem to do well with the red knowable steel.  Thanks.

[Papa Sly]

I use 30# flouro for bass and pickerel and 60 # flouro for pike. Caught around 40 pike over 4 days last year and never even changed out the leaders. just make sure you use leader material and not regular line. Had some steel leaders out also but only a couple hits on the steel, trying knot2kinky titanium this year but I don't tie the flouro I crimp everything for the most secure attachments.

[Light liner]

60#??? Wow.
Heaviest I use is 20# mono, for pike. 10# mono for walleye
8# for trout.
Never had any issues, you just need to be careful pulling them in.
I haven't found a flouro I like in cold weather, to high of a memory.

[J Miser]

Wolfram Leaders...pike can't cut them, trout don't see them, and if they ever kink, just hit it with a cigarette lighter, can't beat them.  Never seen them for sale in this country, should be able to find them on the interweb.  I buy 2, 2.5, 4 and 5 kilo leaders in Poland in bulk, 2 kilo for fatheads, 5 kilo for big shiners, haven't had a toothy critter cut them yet and have caught plenty of walleye in the river on them.

Dr. JM

[Papa Sly]

I've had pickerel cut #30 flouro before. No way you are bringing in big pike on 10# mono

[Light liner]

Mono is way more forgiving than flouro in cold Temps.
I'll have to find the wolfram leaders and give them a try.

[Open-Handed Fish Slap]

Papa Sly, I doubt you'll like the knot to kinky for ice fishing... it's impossible to tie, not great for crimping because it's so thin and smooth, you have to double the tag end back through.  Also, speaking of the tag end, be careful, it will penetrate a half inch into your finger before you realize it.  It's also very stiff, it would not be beneficial fishing live bait and trying to maintain any sort of natural presentation.  It's ridiculously expensive for leader material and it definitely does kink...

[Papa Sly]

Wow thanks for the info, was going to try it based off someone on here referring it as excellent leader for pike. You have to go thru the crimp an extra time?

[Open-Handed Fish Slap]

Any idea how that person attached it to their terminal tackle?  I was all excited about the stuff a couple years ago when I first saw it, and I really gave it my all, I tried like heck to like it but just couldn't get on board.  Yes, You need to put the tag end back through a second time and leave a little loop so the crimp holds.   

[stinkyfingers]

Papa Sly, I doubt you'll like the knot to kinky for ice fishing... it's impossible to tie, not great for crimping because it's so thin and smooth, you have to double the tag end back through.  Also, speaking of the tag end, be careful, it will penetrate a half inch into your finger before you realize it.  It's also very stiff, it would not be beneficial fishing live bait and trying to maintain any sort of natural presentation.  It's ridiculously expensive for leader material and it definitely does kink...

Respectfully disagree. It's true you need to double it back through the sleeve before you crimp but so what? I make my yoke style quick strikes out of the stuff and it's better than any single strand or fluoro I've tried. Never been kinked. Some guys in Canada will use the same leader all season. You can buy the 35# stuff (.015" diameter) for $12.21 for 15' delivered. Sounds okay for 3 seasons worth of leaders. Called knot2kinky.

[crdroste]

I also think the knot2kinky wire is amazing stuff, I usually just tie a knot with it and clip the tag end, the knot wont get tight like other line but it still wont come undone.
This year for ice I made some leaders with the crimp but didn't double it back, I doubt it will come undone before the mono I have it tied too will break (12#), I will only use it when targeting pike all other species get a straight treble hook to the mono. I don't horse the fish in and just use the leader as something the pike cant bite through.

[Open-Handed Fish Slap]

CRD, I know what you're saying, I cannot get past how crappy and shaky and bulky the knots look whether or not they hold up, defeats the purpose of having a nice thin diameter.  Sticky, do you sell this stuff? Why do Canadians set the bar?  I see the two of you were just promoting the knot to kinky on another thread so it's unfortunate timing for my post, lol.  I hope you do well with it, but I bet that crimp will slip well before you break the other line.  What do you guys find so much better about it than, much easier to work with, steel leader material?

[shiveringjoe]

I have tried 80lb fluoro with crimps, steel with crimps, 40lb fluoro, and the knot2kinky. Far and away I prefer the knot2kinky. I use the 30lb and haven't had any issues besides occasionally stabbing my fingertips on the cut end. I use the simple knot on the package to make an 18" leader. I always check every leader by grabbing the hook and the swivel with pliers and pulling until I feel the wire stretch. If the knot is wrong it pops well before the stretch. I use a fairly short leader so I can grab the swivel and get my fish through the hole, you would not want to grab the wire with a fish thrashing around!

[Bigassbassman]

I believe the OP was asking about fluoro leaders for bass and pickerel, and whether or not it makes a difference. I can only speak from my own experience tipup fishing for bass.  I've ALWAYS used fluoro leaders, and I'd say I've done quite well.  I do think bass can be line shy, especially the big smart hawgs.  I learned from F.R.E.D. out in MA that side-by-side, he would outfish guys that tied their hooks straight to the dacron tipup line, just because he used fluoro leaders.  I tend to agree and haven't looked back --- 20# seaguar fluoro leaders on all my bass tipups.

I also make all my leaders with snap swivels on the end, so I can quickly change them out if they become worn or if I want to target pike.  My 20# fluoro leaders are tied with palomar knots, my 60# pike leaders are crimped.

[shiveringjoe]

Good point, I got off topic. I use 12lb seaguar fluoro with 4' leaders as an all-purpose rig for non toothy fish.  I find them to work well for our very line shy lake trout and walleye, but also work well for big smallies and jumbo perch.  I do get bite offs from pike but usually I can land at least one pike and then just trim off 6" and tie it again.

I believe the OP was asking about fluoro leaders for bass and pickerel, and whether or not it makes a difference. I can only speak from my own experience tipup fishing for bass.  I've ALWAYS used fluoro leaders, and I'd say I've done quite well.  I do think bass can be line shy, especially the big smart hawgs.  I learned from F.R.E.D. out in MA that side-by-side, he would outfish guys that tied their hooks straight to the dacron tipup line, just because he used fluoro leaders.  I tend to agree and haven't looked back --- 20# seaguar fluoro leaders on all my bass tipups.

I also make all my leaders with snap swivels on the end, so I can quickly change them out if they become worn or if I want to target pike.  My 20# fluoro leaders are tied with palomar knots, my 60# pike leaders are crimped.

[SpoonieLuv]

We use 20 lbs flouro, catch pike, bass, and walleye. It absolutely makes a difference in clear water.

[mono_mono]

I use 30# flouro for bass and pickerel and 60 # flouro for pike. Caught around 40 pike over 4 days last year and never even changed out the leaders. just make sure you use leader material and not regular line. Had some steel leaders out also but only a couple hits on the steel, trying knot2kinky titanium this year but I don't tie the flouro I crimp everything for the most secure attachments.

Are you sure about 30# for Bass? You could tow a Macy's Day parade float with 30# floro

[Ice Surveyor]

https://www.tygerleader.com/

This is the stuff I have been using for the last 4 years.  Knots are easy to tie.  You can even fuse the leader together with a lighter, without tying a knot. 

[Light liner]

https://www.tygerleader.com/

Thanks for sharing.

This is the stuff I have been using for the last 4 years.  Knots are easy to tie.  You can even fuse the leader together with a lighter, without tying a knot.

[Open-Handed Fish Slap]

https://www.tygerleader.com/

This is the stuff I have been using for the last 4 years.  Knots are easy to tie.  You can even fuse the leader together with a lighter, without tying a knot.

That stuff looks really cool, a hair slimmer than afw, and I like that it comes in a variety of colors,

[SLAYERFISH]

Are you sure about 30# for Bass? You could tow a Macy's Day parade float with 30# floro

Nate is kinda ham-fisted.

[stinkyfingers]

CRD, I know what you're saying, I cannot get past how crappy and shaky and bulky the knots look whether or not they hold up, defeats the purpose of having a nice thin diameter.  Sticky, do you sell this stuff? Why do Canadians set the bar?  I see the two of you were just promoting the knot to kinky on another thread so it's unfortunate timing for my post, lol.  I hope you do well with it, but I bet that crimp will slip well before you break the other line.  What do you guys find so much better about it than, much easier to work with, steel leader material?

Well, forget the Canadians then. I picked up on the stuff from a saltwater forum. Those guys are dealing with wahoo, giant trevally, barracuda and others that make our Northerns look like goldfish. I figure if the stuff works well for them casting lures across coral reefs for big game, it should work for some poor stiff like me staring down a hole in the ice. I learned also about the importance of good crimping technique. Bought a cheap $30 crimper some years back and it's made all the difference compared to just mashing them with a pair of pliers. It ain't going to replace steel or fluoro which I also like. Just another weapon which I prefer when it gets down to the fight.

[Salmonquest]

The tygerwire looks good.

I use 20#floro.

[creepincm]

What kind of crimps would you recommend for 40# fluorocarbon leader?

[Papa Sly]

Aluminum ovals with a cup to cup crimper but watch a you tube video to make sure you are crimping the correct way, it's the opposite of what you may think.

[river_scum]

20# berkley big game for my leaders.  it has stood the test of several 38"-40"range over the last 10 years. back in the late 70s and 80s we were using strait black dacron, all the way to the hook and getting bit. i wouldnt have thought, but the mono has a better record than the dacron, for bite offs, by far.

[mvanhank222]

20-40# seguar LEADER fluorocarbon for Pike depending on water clarity.

[Papa Sly]

I agree but went to 60# when a 24" pickerel bit through 30#

[DrewFlu33]

I use 40# fluoro for pike.  Haven't broken one off yet (knock on wood).   It's a little cumbersome, but you can tie 40# onto most spoons and jigs you would use for pike with regular knots - no need for crimps or anything like that.

One thing that maybe everyone is aware of at this point:  Fluorocarbon sold as "leader material" is vastly different than the larger spools of fluoro.  The larger spools are made to be wound onto a reel.  Because memory is such a problem for line wound onto a reel, they have to make it in a different formulation.  While the formulation helps with memory, it takes away a lot of the advantages of fluoro in terms of abrasion resistance and strength.  The stuff sold as leader material is the old stiff and mega-abrasion resistant variety.  You'd hate yourself if you spooled leader material onto a reel, but definitely should be using it as a leader. 

I learned this the hard way trying to save some money for fluoro leaders when I used to be really into fly fishing.  I regularly caught steelhead on 4 lb test in clear water on fluoro sold as leader material.  Thinking I was nuts for spending as much on a 30 yard spool of "leader material" when I could buy 150 yards of fluoro for the same price, I bought the big spool.  You can feel the difference right away, and there was definitely no landing steelhead on 4 lb test with that stuff.  Back to buying leader material, back to landing steelhead on 4 lb test.

I use 4 lb for walleye in clear water, 6 or 8 in dingy water.  I've caught a lot of pike on 4, 6, and 8, particularly when jigging where the fish doesn't have a chance to choke the lure.  You all but assuredly won't have the same luck on a tip up or dead stick, though.

One last thing I started last year with great success: for my "plain hook" pike fishing, I went to circle hooks.  The "hookset" procedure is much different, but the fish are always hooked right in the corner of the mouth.  You basically just steadily pull into the fish. The shape of the hook will even come out of the fish's gullet if it's been swallowed then rolls around and catches right on the corner of the mouth.  It took me a long time to trust it, but it works very well.  Steady pressure is the key. The fish will often even hook itself if it's swimming away.  I suspect this may allow you to get away with lighter line since the actual fight is done with the line outside the fish's mouth.  Still no protection from gill plates, though.

[bigredonice]

Been using 40lb big game on my pike tip ups for a few years now, no issues yet.