LD 2045 The new stupid boating bill update/plan

[GasBlaster]

Hello Butch,

So you want my resume. OK!
Moved from the Berkshiers when I was 11 years old.
At 13, went to sea with a classmate of mine who's dad and brothers owned 3 New England tuna boats.
At age 15, started lobstering on boats out of Seekonet Pt, and Portsmouth, R.I up to 120 miles offshore.
At age 16 thru 19, Deckhand to Harpooner on swordfishing boats on Georges Bank and The Grand Banks. Also on draggers out of New Bedford, Mass.
At 19 after graduating from high school joined the US Navy. (Wounded Vietnam 1969)
At age 24 entered Mass. Maritme Academy under G.I Bill and graduated with a USCG Lic. 3rd Mate, Unlimited Tonnage;Oceans and also Commissioned as a US Naval Officer.
From age 28 to present worked my way up to Unlimited Master; Oceans, US Merchant Marine.
Last, since the 1st Persian Gulf War, Afghanistan, and the 2nd Persian Gulf War I sailed as Master of cargo vessels delivering the needed supplies to our armed forces over there.
And I hope that that small effort on my part brings some of those MEN and WOMEN home safely. I'm sure a number of them are from MAINE!!!!!

You asked, so now I'm telling you!!!!
I started as a village fisherman as a boy to man, and worked my way up to what I am NOW!
I've lived, breathed the same air, worked my tail off, and faced all the same dangers that all fishermen/mariners face going to sea. And a number of my fondest memories was to ship out with some really excellent hard core DOWNEASTERS!!

My LOVE, RESPECT, for FISHERMAN and ANYONE WHO MAKES THEIR LIVING ON OR FROM THE SEA (WHICH INCLUDES CLAM DIGGERS) is in my BLOOD!!!!

You asked, and now you have your answer!!!!
NEVER!, EVER!, MAKE THAT COMMENT YOU JUST MADE QUESTIONING MY KNOWLEDGE or ABILITIES AS A MAN OF THE SEA!!!

I'm going to cut this short now because you've got my blood up, and I don't want to say anything that I may regret.

Regards,
SeaDog1
Fisherman, Sailor, Master Mariner

P.S. Butch you want to get out of the Fog??? FOLLOW ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You left out all those years as a cabin boy ..

[HighlandLK]

He is a flatlander through and through who has nothing better to do then to try to run our lives by pushing anti-freedom bills upon us.

[JimP]

Maine, The final frontier....

[smeltslayer]

I told the guy what to do the other night and somebody pulled my post. I didn't call him names like he said I did but whatever. I thought we could have a little free speech but I guess not. I told him to open up his eyes and look around just not quiet so nice.

[HighlandLK]

Seriously, why would be push so hard for this to go through? Boating is one of the few true freedoms we all have left and now someone wants to take that away, I just do not understand the reasoning. Liberals who want to protect us all from ourselves?

[dadstacklebox]

So now God says to Noah, you can build it but you can't regester it until you take a class from captain Blye. 
 Then the rains came?

[SeaDog1]

Hello All,

Well, I see where someone here says that I've passed on to the members of this forum disproved facts, figures, and statements.

QUOTE:---[Seadog, your statements of "fact" have been disproven so many times here that I've lost count.] 
Because the above quote is "SO FALSE" I must make the following response.

OK! Starting from the very begining of this topic to the very last post ---- "HERE'S IS THE RECORD of ALL TRUE (INDISPUTABLE) FACTS, FIGURES, AND STATMENTS I PRESENTED TO THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM".

1. True Fact: Recreational boating nation wide has increased substantially with increased incidents
2. True Fact: From 1980 to 2005 (per USCG statistics) registered boats went from 8.5 million boats to 12.9 million boats
3. True Fact: From 2002 to 2006 (per USCG statistics) there where 25,983 boating incidents, nation wide.
4. True Fact: From 2002 to 2006 (per USCG statistics) there where 18,238 injuries from boating incidents, nation wide.
5. True Fact: From 2002 to 2006 (per USCG statistics) there where   3, 536 fatalities, nation wide.
5. True Fact: In 2006 alone (per USCG statistics) there where 710 fatalities of which 103 where young individuals under the age of 19, nation wide.
6. True Fact: As of 2008 there are 38 states out of 50 that have mandatory safe boat training and certification with 7 pending out of the remaining 12. The state of Maine now included with the other pending states.
7. True Fact: With the continuing yearly increase of more boats, being put on to US waters nation wide plus the likelyhood of more incidents, that there is a nation wide necessity for all states to implement safe boat training and certification.
8. True Fact: All states that have safe boat training and certification will be recognized by the other states that have said same training and certification.
9. True Fact: The State of Maine, has a long, proud, and prestigous history in maritime shipbuilding and training.
10. True Fact: The State of Maine, unfortunately, seems, will be one of the last states to implement safe boat training and certification.
11. True Fact: The State of Maine, NOT having a safe boat training and certification program, has the following results;
Residents of the State of Maine not having said certificate "CANNOT" engage in boating activities in any other state that does require proof of said training and certificate.
12. True Fact: The 2 bills (LD 2045 and LD 2067) have been presented to answer the need for boater safe training and certification in the State of Maine.
13. True Fact: Bill LD 2045 is specifically written and targeted "ONLY" toward individuals UNDER the age of 18.
14. True Fact: Bill LD 2067 is specifically written and targeted toward individuals 18 years of age and older.
15. True Fact: Bill LD 2045 is the "ONLY" bill that restricts those under the age of 18 from operating a motor boat alone between sunset and sunrise with the exception that that individual under 18 can operate said boat "ONLY" with an attending qualified person 18 years of age or older.
16. True Fact: Bill 2067, which is for adults 18 and up, and has "NO RESTRICTION" of any kind that prevents the night time operation of a boat by persons wanting to fish, travel to hunting areas or duckblinds, or to engage in a midnight cruise.
17. True Fact: A number of individuals on this forum jumped the gun and became upset because they thought that their right to operate a boat at night was being taken away from them, and that is not true.
18. True Fact: A number of individuals became upset that out of state persons would be able to operate a motorboat rented or leased for 60 days without a safe boating certificate.
Bills LD 2045 and LD 2067 are not law at this time, (but when they do), under part F.A of Bill 2067 that out of state person, minor or adult, "MUST" provide said safe boating certificate to proper Maine authorities, if they do not have a safe boating certificate issued by their own state of resident, they are not allowed to operate any motor boat or PWC on any Maine inland waters or coastal territorial waters.
19. True Fact: A motorboat is a mode of transportation similar to an automobile.
20. True Fact: Is a motorboat any less dangerous that an automobile. The answer is "NO" as each can cause an incident by a individual being inattentive with the possible results of injury, death, and property damage.
21. True Fact: Anyone operating an automobile or boat "SHALL" not consume alcoholic beverages.
22. True Fact: A boat is affected more so than an automobile because it is on water which has no friction per se and by wind, weather, tide, current, and reduced visibility.
23. True Fact: All 50 states require mandatory driver Ed for those individuals "Under the age of 18).
      Twice the above person posted from the Maine DMV that individuals 18 years of age and older are not required to attend a mandatory divers Ed course. That is correct, but my post was directed towards those under the age of 18 which drivers Ed is mandatory for in the State of Maine. So his posts where made in error twice.
24. I indicated that there is always the possiblity that with the presentation of a new proposed bill that clarification in language is sometimes needed to address specific concerns of the state residents.
25. True Fact: I submitted both bills (LD 2045 and LD 2067) to outside professional people and buisness for their opinions, pro and con, on the overall language of the bills which when received back I informed this forum.
25. True Fact: I noted the concerns of the members of this forum on particular points in both LD 2045 and LD 2067 and did relay those exact concerns to those in the legislature up in Augusta.
26. True Fact: When bills LD 2045 and LD 2067 become law the revenue collected should not go into the general fund but used directly for adding more Wardens or DEP officers to enforce present laws, which many on this form have indicated is much needed.
27. True Fact: As I indicated by example; the cost of boat training and certification would amount to about $5.00 a year per each resident boater in Maine or $25.00 every 5 years upon renewal of their certificate.
28. True Fact: Some individuals on this forum have insinuated that I don't understand the problems sportsman have in Maine. That is absolutely "FALSE". I directly indicated that I also do not like particular rules and additional fees that restrict my ability to enjoy fishing, hunting.
29. True Fact: Some individuals on this forum became upset with the comment I made that safe boat training and certification will be a reality in the near future in Maine. Well, it is a true fact, it will happen in the near future, and it is what is necessary so that the State of Maine and its recreational boaters are on the same level playing field as all the other states in the US.
30. True Fact: Some individuals have reflected their dislike for the institution of mandatory safe boating training and that they won't comply because they feel that their freedom is being taken away. I cannot help how you feel about this, but the "REALITY IS" that (per USCG statistics) as taken in 2006, that 65.2% of recreational boaters nation wide have never taken a safe boating course and have little or no knowledge of the "Rules of the Road" and emergency procedures. (65.2% out of almost 13 million boaters; "THAT IS A ***HUGE*** NUMBER OF PEOPLE OPERATING BOATS WITHOUT EVEN THE BASIC KNOWLEDGE WHAT THEY SHOULD KNOW!".
Also the 2 "WORSE" age groups of recreational boaters nation wide (per USCG statistics) were the under 20 years of age group and the largest group being those between 30 and 50 years of age.
That is an indisputable fact, and it without doubt, proves the need for safe boat training and certification, and to get "ALL" of the US recreational boating community on the same level playing field. With up to date knowledge of safety requirements, up to date knowledge of the "Rules of the Road" and up to date of "on the water" emergency procedures.

All of the above, #1 thru #30 are all "TRUE HARD FACTS" that I presented to the members of this forum.

So!!!! I put to the person that made the quote that the facts I present to this forum are "UN-TRUE" or as you put it ["Have been disproven so may times that I've lost count".]
I made it known to all and exclaimed that I consider this person a very intelligent individual and "I hold to that statement", but as for what I said about him being a reporter in his own right. Well that has changed drastically, because a TRUE reporter/journalist would not have taken a singular anti-Bill stance on this topic and "DO" such a "DIS-SERVICE" to all the members of this forum, but covered all sides of this topic PRO and CON, TOP and BOTTOM,and ALL 4 SIDES!! and presented to all the members of this forum all the information needed so that they could make their own in-depth knowledgable evaluation and personal judgement concerning these 2 Bills.
So much mis-interperation and twisting and overlapping of these 2 bills by people, without knowing the full and true facts, is mind boggaling!!!!!   

It's going be interesting to hear your reply!!!!!!
Oh! And I don't think your a Country Bumpkin, so "DON'T" put any of your words in my mouth.
I'm a YANKEE and can and will speak for myself. If I thought of you that way I'D TELL YOU SO UP FRONT!!!

Regards,
SeaDog1



 





 


 

[Loves To Fish]

Somebody got way too much time on their hands.

[Phoenix]

Fellas, can we please not poke the bulldog? I think we've pretty well established that his opinion is that Government knows best and can save us all. Most of us here don't feel that way and it's up to us keep an eye on all attempts by our government to "help" us and let them know that we don't need their "help".

Said it before and I'll say it again, we already have enough laws in place to deal with the situation. This wasn't a matter of someone ignorant of proper boating etiquette who operated to the wrong side of a buoy. The guy was drunk and mowed down innocent people. Punish him and make it stiff enough to be a deterrent to others who might do the same.

However, even if you throw him in jail for the rest of his life, there are still going to be the die hard idiots, ya can't fix stupid, and there will still be the occasional tragedy. This is part of living and unless we're all going to be wrapped in foam and operate 12' row boats in less than two feet of water, they're going to happen.

[billditrite]

TO: SeaDog1

Hello...we get your point...we dont agree with it...move on please   

this bill is a joke as it is written and needs to be defeated . i will teach my children the way i was taught by my father and his father before him...like you we have made our point repeatedly...lets try it ONE MORE TIME!!

NO MATTER HOW YOU WRITE THE LAW...YOU CAN NOT FORCE COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY ON STUPID PEOPLE

[HighlandLK]

He is a flat lander, and therefore thinks that writing laws will save us all.

Anyway,

"27. True Fact: As I indicated by example; the cost of boat training and certification would amount to about $5.00 a year per each resident boater in Maine or $25.00 every 5 years upon renewal of their certificate."

Would love to see how you figured this one. I think its an assumption on your part through and through. I am betting we will see $25 a YEAR.

[SeaDog1]

Hi HighlanderLK,

Tisk Tisk!
I give you an HONEST answer to your last question straight out of the USCG regulation book about your Dear 65 year old Father and praise and compliment HIM for the recognition he received for the rescues he did and all you can do is inturn is send me back a couple of lame insults. Siscorrs, Flatlander???

Guess I'll have to file those 2 insults with the excrement that comes from our New England mud flat clams because the stuff that comes out of the back end of a Male Bovine is of a higher quality then what your peddling!!!!!

Oh!  WAIT! WAIT! I've got to write that one down!!!!
And send it to Larry the Cable Guy ------NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
SeaDog1

[Butch Moore]

Seadog, you're going to have to go back through the thread to see where your "facts" have been disproved.  I have neither the time nor the desire to do that for you.  I will however respond to something that someone else has responded to:

"27. True Fact: As I indicated by example; the cost of boat training and certification would amount to about $5.00 a year per each resident boater in Maine or $25.00 every 5 years upon renewal of their certificate."

Can you show me within the text of the bill where this is a true statement?  Rep. Watson told me that he was proposing that this was a one time course.  Now you're admitting what many of us have feared was the true intention - there will be a push for renewals every few years costing us more money, just like a boating LICENSE would do.

One last thing comes to mind regarding who has to take the course.  You made a claim that tourists would have to show proof of completing a "safety" course before being allowed to rent a boat.  I showed you that this isn't true, using the text of the bill, and relaying information from my interview with Rep. Watson.  I don't know what more anyone can do to convince you, but what you said just isn't the way it is.

Okay, one more last thing.  Your statistics look almost as impressive as the misleading ones presented at the hearing.  The problem is, statistics are useless until put into context.  This is from my January column:

For example, in 2005, the highway fatality rate for “pedalcyclists” (I assume most normal folks would say this means bicycles, but in this day and age who knows for sure) involved in motor vehicle crashes was 784, whereas the boating fatality rate for registered boats was 697. Yes, you read that correctly, more people are killed on bicycle accidents each year than are killed in boating accidents. So, why are we looking at making boater safety classes mandatory and not bicycle safety classes?

Are you this adamant about mandatory safety classes for bicycles as well Seadog?  If not, why not?

One last thing, try to relax, and maybe smile a bit.  You're taking a political discussion for too personally. 

[jrelaxin]

Amazing how money talks................. and those trees from the forest get so cloudy..............

Seadog....with all due respect and admiration for all you have done but you really think that we are gonna buy any of that real estate................ ....might sell it to the guys in Augusta but true maine boaters don't think so.Might  be more convincing telling farmers in Idaho how to grow potatoes.

[fshnfool]

Seadog.... Might  be more convincing telling farmers in Idaho how to grow potatoes.

 

[SeaDog1]

Hi Butch,

I hear what your saying!!!! But we're not talking about bicycles, or down hill skiing, or any other activity that involves motion.
We're talking about 2 modes of motorized transportation that can attain much higher speeds with much more physical mass and can be involved in an incident with deadly consequences.
Getting hit with a 10 ft. boat with a 4 hp. motor on the back can still cause serious injury or death. That is a FACT!!!
And it is NEVER, EVER the boats fault. It is the driver who is at fault! That is Fact!!
Again!!! We are not going to stop many of the fools or idiots on the roads or the water. That is FACT!!
But!!! Just like nation wide mandatory drivers Ed has done for those under 18, safe boat training WILL decrease the percentage of injuries and deaths.
The plain truth of the matter is that it is a percentage thing.
Those on this forum that have said that they can, would, could teach their youngsters safe boating is commendable. But the "REAL LIFE FACT OF THE MATTER IS" that the vast majority of youngsters don't have the concerned adults that have the time or opportunity to teach them or have themselves, up to date knowledge on safety, or the rules and regs., and emergency procedures. That is FACT!!!
The whole point that I have been trying to get across to all to "UNDERSTAND" is
"Give these kids at least the  knowledge and training, they so very much need, so they have a fighting chance to survive out there on the water".
Can anyone, anyone at all argue with that???

You made the argument of what training would cost. Obviously, you haven't done any research on the subject at all.
In some states, it can be as low as $15/$20.00, at professional training schools (One that was advertised on the Goggle line at the bottom of this forum, and which I called , charges $50.00 for a one day course and/or for a more in-depth/advanced training the cost will obviously be more).

I have already called and made that particular concern of the members to those up in Augusta, and said to them that the cost of training should reflect and be comparable to that which is already charged in states that now have mandatory safe boat training.
If you don't ask the question you don't get an answer!!!!!!!
Shooting from the hip or flying off the handle as some have done on this forum, on this subject, accomplishes NOTHING!!
ASK YOUR CONCERNED QUESTIONS to get the full truthful story and the answers you need to make your own logical decisions. That's it!! SIMPLE!!! Plain Commonsense!!!!
Griping, Grumbling Sticking your heads in the Sand is not the way to do this.
Since I started making my posts on this subject and the 2 bills, I have consistently been answering you all back with truthfull hard core facts.
Some of you have agreed with me and some have not. THAT'S OK!!!!!
But when you listen you also have the hear all sides on the subject! Pros and Cons, Top and Bottom, and all 4 sides!!!!!!

Best regards,
SeaDog1

[billditrite]

Those on this forum that have said that they can, would, could teach their youngsters safe boating is commendable. But the "REAL LIFE FACT OF THE MATTER IS" that the vast majority of youngsters don't have the concerned adults that have the time or opportunity to teach them or have themselves, up to date knowledge on safety, or the rules and regs., and emergency procedures. That is FACT!!!
The whole point that I have been trying to get across to all to "UNDERSTAND" is
"Give these kids at least the  knowledge and training, they so very much need, so they have a fighting chance to survive out there on the water".
Can anyone, anyone at all argue with that???

why do I have to get a boat liscence for someone else to teach these unfortunate kids?  as was stated i would prefer to pursue the bicycle safety thing because REAL LIFE FACT OF THE MATTER IS 98.99%of the kids in the united states ride a bicycle a heck of a lot more than drive a boat!

who the heck is teaching these kids the "RULES OF THE ROAD" ?? Good Gawd man you'd better get started and save these unfortunate children from themselves!!

with all due respect for your profession,I have a lot more respect for the USCG than the brainiacs who thought up this ridiculous proposal have for the people of Maine ...i dont beleive you are going to convince anyone on this board that you are right on this one.  but I don't doubt youll keep trying   

[smeltslayer]

This Seadog is peeing directly into the wind with us and he's getting it all over his face. We will raise our kids how we want, not how you think they should be raised!!!!!!!! Go fight this issue with someone who really cares what you have to say.

[SeaDog1]

Hi again Butch!

Forgot to answer your question on fees.
That is a good question and here is an answer.
You renew your automobile Lic. every 5 years.
A truck driver does also every 5 years with an open book exam mostly on new rules and regs. concerning the transport of hazardous materials.
Pilots flying small or large aircraft also must renew their Lic. periodically.
All USCG Licensed mariners also renew our licenses every 5 years with an (at home) open book exam to bring us up to date on changes in rules and regs.
By the way the cost to renew my Lic. every 5 years exceeds $800.00, but most of the ships I command are hundreds of feet long and wide.
Again we're talking about 2 motorized modes of transportation (car and boat) that can attain speeds that can cause injury or death.
So if recreational boaters are charged an average of $25.00 every 5 years (That's $5.00 for every year) and a short open book exam (over Sunday morning coffee at home) to bring them up to date on the same marine rules and regs. (same rules for me) changes that have been made during that 5 year period it is the same as renewing your auto Lic.

There's the answer your looking for.

Have a Great Day
Regards,
SeaDog1

 

[_FLAG_]

they must have left the 5 bux a year out of my copy of the proposal...SeaDog you are speculating

Of course he is... or he just wants to keep on typing. Talk about being BORED!!

Do like NH does "LIFETIME" once you have taken the course or if you are given a citation for breaking a rule then you must re-examin.

[Butch Moore]

they must have left the 5 bux a year out of my copy of the proposal...SeaDog you are speculating

Mine too!

Getting hit with a 10 ft. boat with a 4 hp. motor on the back can still cause serious injury or death. That is a FACT!!!

That may be a FACT, but it is also a FACT that more people are killed on bicycles than in boats.  Can you dispute this?  Why aren't you on a crusade to require a mandatory "safety" certificate for bicycles?

The bottom line is that this bill is nothing but more Nanny State interference, period.  No amount of spin will change that.

As a side note, I thought you might like this for an avatar Seadog:



Or perhaps this one:

[Butch Moore]

That is a good question and here is an answer.
You renew your automobile Lic. every 5 years.
A truck driver does also every 5 years with an open book exam mostly on new rules and regs. concerning the transport of hazardous materials.
Pilots flying small or large aircraft also must renew their Lic. periodically.
All USCG Licensed mariners also renew our licenses every 5 years with an (at home) open book exam to bring us up to date on changes in rules and regs.

But I thought this wasn't a LICENSE proposal?!?!?  Why do we need to renew anything if it's not a LICENSE we're getting?

This is just ridiculous...

As a reminder, the work session is today at 1300.  Here's an audio link:

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/audio/ifw_cmte.html

[jrelaxin]

now come on  can't fleeces maine boater with those................. ........

[SeaDog1]

Hi billditrite!

As I have posted before, from the latest USCG statistics, 65.2% out of almost 13 million recreational boaters nation wide (today) have taken "NO" safe boating course or even know the latest "Rules of the Road".
Again, that is a "HUGE" number of people.
And the "WORSE" and largest offending group are those between the age of 30 and 50.
The latest boat incident statistics reflect that age group and they where not all fools or idiots.
Most of them did not having any safety knowledge, any knowledge of the rules and regs., or the knowledge of emergency procedures on the water. That is Fact!!!
Because of that fact, it is necessary to get all adult recreational boaters up to date on on the same page. At this point in time there are a lot more boaters out there that are a danger to themselves as well as others.
The good knowledgeable boaters nation wide are out numbered by the ones who have no knowledge what so ever.
The whole purpose is to get everyone on the same playing field with exactly the same knowledge.

That's the answer to your question.

Best regards,
SeaDog1

[billditrite]

oooooooohhhhhhh...well why didnt you just say that??     well im convinced. first it was to give the kids a chance...then it is the adults 30-50... butch is right you must be very dizzy from all the spinnig you are doing...i really cant see what more can be discussed in this thread about boating proposals on an icefishing site...we have covered all the facts you have presented and it seems to be spinning to a personal level since that is all that is left to cover. both sides have stated their case and i urge folks to talk to their reps and elected officials and tell them your opinion this proposal