NH Fish and Game Dept woes

[nhtroutfreak]

I know this topic was brought up a few times last year and we haven't heard much since then.  But here is an article that summarizes the audit that was done to the F&G Dept.  The full audit report is 160 boring pages long and is available on the F&G website.

Audit could determine future of Fish and Game Department

By STEPHEN FROTHINGHAM
Associated Press Writer
Article Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2008

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) _ Big changes could be afoot at the state Fish and Game Department, including a new name and more fees for hikers, salt-water fishermen and canoe and kayak paddlers.

A legislative audit says the cash-starved department needs to increase efficiency, look for more federal funds and find ways to get revenue from those who never cast a line or shoot a rifle, but who nevertheless benefit from the department's wildlife and waterway management and search and rescue services.

The department traditionally has been funded by fishing and hunting license sales and federal funds — but little or no state money. It has struggled in recent decades as license sales have flattened or declined. Last year, the department asked for $3 million in state funding.

Instead, Gov. John Lynch and the Legislature told the department to tighten its belt while the Legislative Budget Assistant audited its performance. The audit was released Tuesday.

It makes 30 suggestions, many of them requiring law changes. Department officials say they support 27 of the suggestions at least in part, and Acting Executive Director Donald Clarke said department officials will work with the Legislature to enact the recommendations.

The audit suggests the department change its name to the Fish and Wildlife Department, citing a study that showed 45 percent of New Hampshire residents watch wildlife, while just 14 percent hunt or fish.

It also suggests some staffing changes, limiting the power of the Fish and Game Commission and enacting a number of reforms in the way the department buys, maintains and assigns fleet vehicles.

The public would be most affected by proposed new sticker fees for canoe and kayak paddlers and licenses for salt water fishermen. In department comments included in the audit report, the department notes that it would like to propose a $15 salt water fishing fee.

Last year a legislative committee recommended against passing a saltwater fishing license, and the House si scheduled to take up that recommendation Wednesday.

The audit did not put a figure on the paddlers' sticker.

Since most search and rescue missions involve hikers, not hunters and fishermen, the audit suggests the department look for ways to get some revenue from them. It suggests a voluntary hiker fee or giving the department a share of state rooms and meals tax revenue, since most lost hikers are from out of state.

The audit also suggested the Legislature broaden a law allowing the department to charge missing people for the cost of their rescue. Currently rescuees must have acted "recklessly" to be charged. The audit suggests the Legislature broaden the law to apply to those who were "negligent."

The department concurred, writing that it "would enable the Department to consider billing in cases involving people who were clearly unprepared; for example, hiking with summer clothes, no lights, little food or no emergency gear in October, but who claimed to have been unaware of the risk."

Between 2002 and 2007, the department conducted 822 search and rescue missions, at a cost of $1.5 million. The department billed five of the rescuees for reckless behavior and collected about $7,600.

[cSpike]

Don't worry they'll make up the shortfall with ridiculous liscence, stamps and fees. I imagine all the people they catch fishing cusk on the closed lakes this year should bring in a bundle. Or how about a saltwater fishing liscence? The state contributes so much to that fishery, what with all the salmon, steelhead and sea run browns they fed the ocean fish thru the years. They do deserve to regain some money from us for that contribution.


I have one word for you- AUDIT!

Where is the money going??
Shouldn't be hard to trace. money in- money out. We all live by those rules.

Spike

[possumilk]

stickers for canoes and kayaks is dumb and a lame way to rape the locals.  our fishing license fees are much higher than many states as it is.

[Pail Rider]

The state government rakes F&G over the coals when it comes to sharing the revenue from our rooms and meals tax.  People come here to hunt, fish, hike, snowmobile and watch nature...all things that F&G is directly responsible for.  You would think that they would get a piece of that pie, but our elected officials don't think so.

[WetlinesNCocktails]

Thanks for posting the article.  I'll have to make time & read the full report.  Couldn't agree more with charging folks who need backcountry assistance - regardless of whether they "don't know any better".    I've got mixed feelings about other fees (i.e. saltwater fishing & paddling stickers, etc.).  I could see both sides of it.

First things first - the fat should be trimmed from the budget before we incur any new fees!

[doabbs]

They already have a Salt Water license requirement for Smelt Fishing through the ice in Great Bay and it's tributaries.  While in the summer you can fish for Striper and other salt water species without a license.  Go figure.

[rob-s]

They already have a Salt Water license requirement for Smelt Fishing through the ice in Great Bay and it's tributaries.  While in the summer you can fish for St riper and other salt water species without a license.  Go figure.

 /?... separate from a regular licence?

[newfoundpleasure]

Could be worse. you could live in MA like me and be taxed on everythig. They have raised the value of my house over 100g inthe last year. I couldn,t sell my house for what my town appraises it for.

Sounds like a good time to apply for a tax abatement!
I'll be applying for mine.

[doabbs]

/?... separate form a regular licence?

No, you have to buy a freshwater license to fish for Smelt in Great Bay.  If you don't do any freshwater fishing it kind of sucks.

[cSpike]

Could be worse. you could live in MA like me and be taxed on everythig. They have raised the value of my house over 100g inthe last year. I couldn,t sell my house for what my town appraises it for. First chance I get I'm moving your way. Wife won't move away from her mother.

Have you seen our property taxes???
You might want to sit tight. I think we are all in the Over apraised boat at the moment.

Spike

[johnnyrottendadto4]

Leave it to the great state of New Hampshire to suggest a fee for salt water fishing. I guess its a real good thing that Im not to far from Maine, considering that is where I do all my surf casting. New Hampshire needs to get real, next thing you know is that they will put a state tax on the bait we use, or maybe we will have to check in all of our catch so they can tax us on that, or better yet tax our shanties as waterfront property. But for the time being let them look for bogus ways to fine us, they seem real good at doing that.

                                                                                                                            John

[jgguppyboy2]

I have usualy been a supporter of fish and game over the years.  However I will never buy a saltwater fishing license in nh.  I dont even fish it enough to make it worth it.   and as far as conoe's and kayaks..... well just where do we stop?   they say its because we are using a state maintained body of water.  well what about bodies of water that have no boat launches and are not stalked with any type of fish nor are they maintained at all by the state.  and what about swimmers.  If I have to register my boat which I am powering with my own strength then they better make every person who goes swimming in a state maintained body of water register themselves.   This is the most rediculous perposal they have come up with yet.  And the sad part is they know they have us in a spot where we cant boycot them and not go out with our boats becuase as much as we would like to believe I know I cant not fish or hunt.  Its my life and its what I love to do.  I can gaurentee you they wont get money out of me very easy.

                     ~Stefan~

[newfoundpleasure]

or better yet tax our shanties as waterfront property.

DUDE!  Don't be giving them any more ideas!  PLEASE?

[doabbs]

If I have to register my boat which I am powering with my own strength then they better make every person who goes swimming in a state maintained body of water register themselves.

You ever try to swim in a state owned lake for free?  They get you somewhere. We went to Echo Lake state park, $5 a person.  Hampton Beach State park, feed the state owned meters.  Try going to National Forest (Diana's Bath), you have to pay either a daily/weekly/yearly fee.  Town beach here in Milton $25 for residents.  Public lands and resources are no longer public, there pay for use.  Pretty sad when you think about it.

[Art 53]

Doabbs Hey that's a real good point. Look At the White Mountains it has a user fee! My force 5 sail boat 12' 10" needs a sticker where doe's it stop? Shanty's are next you watch!!!!!!

[onehook]

I think the Atlantic salmon program should be scrapped. There are no real runs returning that make it worh it. I am in favor of Starting the Chinook salmon program again that was much more sucessful but the fish were not "Native".

[fishalot2day]

let them tax the hikers and such it seems like every time they need to get more money they just raise the hunting and fishing license fees.  but when someone gets lost the money for the search and rescue comes out of the license fees if you want to play you got to pay i guess

[jgguppyboy2]

You ever try to swim in a state owned lake for free?  They get you somewhere. We went to Echo Lake state park, $5 a person.  Hampton Beach State park, feed the state owned meters.  Try going to National Forest (Diana's Bath), you have to pay either a daily/weekly/yearly fee.  Town beach here in Milton $25 for residents.  Public lands and resources are no longer public, there pay for use.  Pretty sad when you think about it.

you are right on that.  However there are still many smaller lakes and ponds they have designated swimming area's.  Take for instance clough pond in Loudon.  That is a stocked trout pond that has a swimming area in it with its own parking lot.  or the same for saltmarsh pond in gilford.  and you cant even use a motor there.  what is the point of having a boat launch maintained if you cant put a boat in it???

                                                              ~Stefan~

[nhfisha17]

stickers for canoes and kayaks is dumb and a lame way to rape the locals.  our fishing license fees are much higher than many states as it is.

I actually got cited last fall for not having a sticker on my kyak...He said it was a new law and didnt even hesitate to write out the ticket for $45. Yea they may be hurting for money but is it really necesary for a kyaker to get hit with something like that...Whats next is the DMV going to make us register our bicycle.

[jgguppyboy2]

The ticket had to be for something else. Unless you had a motor on that yak!  If not I would go right down to F&G and get your money back because it is not nor has been a law as of yet.


                                           ~Stefan~

[knurren]

I actually got cited last fall for not having a sticker on my kyak...He said it was a new law and didnt even hesitate to write out the ticket for $45. Yea they may be hurting for money but is it really necesary for a kyaker to get hit with something like that...Whats next is the DMV going to make us register our bicycle.

Who's the officer?

[Adrock]

This is depressing, most of us on here already shell out enough money as it is for boat registrations, hunting and fishing licences.  I probably salt water fish a couple times a year.  That would probably stop if I had to cough up another $15 or $20 on top of all the other fees we already pay for.  They really need to start getting some of the funds from the meal and hotel taxes.
As for the hiking thing, they ought to institute a volentary hiking fee of like $10.  It should act like rescue insurance, pay the $10 and it covers you should you need to get rescued.  Not covered then cough up the $$ for the rescue, but then again I don't do any serious hiking so thats why it probably sounds reasonable.
Either way, they need to find money from another source besides increasing the fees on people that are already contributing the most money to the system.

[knurren]

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/lba/PDF/FG_2007p.pdf

Full PDF version of the report.  It's pretty eye opening.  Be prepared to spend some time with it, as it's 160 pages.  Just skimming through, you can see how they're in a funding crisis.  Their responsibilities have increased since the departments inception, but the sources of money have not.

They need to figure out a way to get money from wildlife viewers, hikers, and others who use department resources but don't contribute.  The department spends a good deal of money on lost hikers, about 1/2 of which are from out of state.  Unless the lost hiker buys a fishing or hunting license, they contribute NOTHING to the system.  That is money being taken away from fish stocking efforts as well as other wildlife habitat enhancement programs.  Money that WE as sportsmen contribute.  If that doesn't anger you, it should.  We are footing the bills for it.

I don't have a problem giving the fish and game money.  But given their current scope of responsibilities, the department's resources are being used by others who don't contribute.  It is my philosophy that if they can straighten this mess out, perhaps they can increase staffing levels.  Some here believe that the enforcement of laws already in place are favorable to creating new laws.  The new Cusk fishing laws is a good example of that.  Perhaps with adequate staffing, the department could keep up with offenders and would not be forced into creating new laws.  Higher staffing levels might also help keep more bodies of water open.  With more officers, there's a higher likelyhood that the few "sportsmen" who litter and give us a bad name will be caught and punished.  This could lead to a better public perception for those of us that are responsible and courteous of others.  This is just my take on it. 

[johnnyrottendadto4]

 With the problems that fish and game are  having they should consider raising the fines for people who dont abide by the laws, snowmobiles going to close to shacks at high rates of speed would certainly produce much needed funds. As far as a hiking fee, I think I pay it in hunting and fishing licenses, I hike all summer long and part of my gear besides proper clothing, food, and water is a cell phone and a hand held gps unit. People should not be made to pay to enjoy the outdoors, we have enough obesity in the state without giving someone more reasons to stay inside.However , if somebody needs to be rescued from the woods because of lack of preparation they should foot the bill, if they fall and break a bone then cut them some slack because accidents do happen.

                                                     John

[Pail Rider]

Not promoting conservation officers to Lieutenant after they get caught stocking their own private ponds with trout would have saved them a few dollars 

[newfoundpleasure]

Not promoting conservation officers to Lieutenant after they get caught stocking their own private ponds with trout would have saved them a few dollars 

is there something further you care to share with us?  Hmmmmmm?
How many ponds, and how many fish?

[Pail Rider]

is there something further you care to share with us?  Hmmmmmm?
How many ponds, and how many fish?

Single pond in his own back yard....this story got conveniently swept under the rug....

http://portsmouthrealtors.com/2005news/05202005/news/43231.htm

[knurren]

I'll play devils advocate for a minute here... Is it possible the allegations were false?  The article is from May of 2005, is there any information that is more recent?  Many people have been wrongfully accused at one time or another, including myself.  And I know for a fact I was not guilty when I was accused.  Innocent until found guilty?  In the court of public opinion, it's anything but.  I can't and am not saying he is innocent, but I also can't say he is guilty with more or less certainty.

If he did do it, I'd certainly hope for a stiff punishment.  Given his position, he should receive more of a punishment because he out of anyone should know better.  Please don't confuse my statements as being a defense for him.  There can be a lot of allegations flying around, finger pointing, he said/she said, etc...  But the story doesn't contain a lot of factual information other than there was an accusation made.

[Pail Rider]

It's a true story, there is another article out there about it, that said he admitted to it, pretty sure he said it was 5 fish...when I questioned another F&G CO about it, he said he didn't want to talk about it.  I talked with a local sherriff (from Salisbury, where this took place) that is friends with Col. Jeff Gray, and he said it was indeed true.  There was a lot of stuff going on in the dept back then (sexual harassment), and I really think it was swept under the carpet when it hit the Governor's desk because of everything that was going on.  I'm sure he got at least a letter of reprimand for it.  Just one of those things that riles me up to no end...If you or I were to transport live fish to our own pond, we'd be getting a heck of a lot worse than what he got....

[jgguppyboy2]

I was told by a F&G employee lastnight that as of now this issue is dead. Due to lack of support.   I think it was in hawkeye that I read there are more people in the state that observe wildlife then there are that hunt.  Which is why there is consideration of changing F&G name to Fish and Wildlife.  Maybe if we had more people get there children off the couch and put a fishing pole in thier hands we might have more of an outdoorsman population in this state.  Ill tell you another thing that is killing the average sportsman.  CORPORATE AMERICA.  I dont know a single retail manager or corporate level person that has the time to even get out for an hour to fish.   And that is sad.  Work is important yes.  but is it so important that we let it dictate our lives and how we spend it.  I can tell you now I will never work 70-80 hours just to make good money.  To me its not worth it.

                     ~Stefan~