Having trouble keeping the Lakers on!

[Daniel]

This is the first year jigging through the ice. This year so far I have been going after Lake trout with a thorn brothers 42 inch graphite professional rod! I has been treating me real well but I am still having a hard time keeping the fish on right after the hook set. I been having them on for a second or two after setting the hook up to about my eye level. When I go to start reeling they are gone. It seems that my hook set just isn't strong enough. Just lost one tonight just this way I have started to experiment setting the hook as far as I can reach up but it still is not habit! How do other people set the hook? How might I prevent the fish from coming off, might it be that I am never getting the hook solidly into their jaw?

[minnowman]

You're probably not doing anything wrong--lakers will nip at the jig a lot and many fish are missed or not solidly hooked.  I set the hook and reel quickly to get any slack out, but still lose some fish!

[venom]

 Thorne Bros nice rods you have to be fishing around me then. 42" is a bit to long for my likeing they are nice rods the longest rod I run is a 36" JM Mackenaw and it works well but I do like my rods a bit shorter 28" to 30" alot of the times if I am fishing deep whith a longer rod it had a bit more bend and it dont drive the hook home and you have to set it 2 times quick. With my shorter heavy actions there is alot less flex and when you bring it home its a home run or a miss. And I keep my hooks sharp always I have reeled up fish from 180ft down and at the bottom of the hole they just let it go and off they go. What are you running for line?

[jaklakmak]

I always tie a small treble hook to my jig so when the lakers do nip they usually hit the treble. The treble is about an inch to inch and a half below my regular jog hook. I'd say 80-90% of my hook sets are on the small treble that i have tied on. Make sure you check your regulations before you do so. Different states have different regs on the number of hooks per line.

[pirkaus]

Another factor may be your line, mono stretches and the deeper you go the more stretch there is.   Try a fluorocarbon or hybrid line they have less stretch and help get a better hook set.   
I use a 24" med action rod with hybrid line.
Pirk

[Daniel]

I am using 8 and 10 pound Berkley Vannish Fluorocarbon.  I like the line it really doesn't stretch to much, I missed another one today, again the same thing, had it on after a short hookset and came didn't stay on. I was in the shanty and I really couldn't get a good hook set with the close quarters.  The long rod is really only good for outside when you can really get the good full hookset.  I think I just have to train myself to set my full arms length and if they are on, they hopefully will be hooked well.  How would i go about putting on a trailer treble hook, I have crimps and wire, any ideas!  How do other people set the hook, all the way, half way, or what.  Thanks!  At least I am connecting with fish right!

[jaklakmak]

I use regular 10# Mono for a trailer treb. Create a loop knot like one you would use for a swivel with an opening end. Cut all loose ends so all you have is a loop of mono. Pinch the end of the loop that doesn't have the knot on it and put it through the eye of your treble and then pull the loop back over top of all three hooks of the treble and pull tight. Now you should have the treble attached to your loop. Now take treble with attached loop and lay in bend of your jig hook and then take treble and pull through loop and pull tight. Now you should have a fish snaggin trailer hook. If you have problems with these instructions let me know i will try and post photos.

[Daniel]

I think I understand what you mean but pictures would help greatly! Do you think these trailers would work well on my jigging tubes!  What kind of jigs do you them on?  How much do you think they increase your catch.  Hey thanks a bunch!

[jaklakmak]

Go to the following link and see the post under my name. These jig are 1/2 oz and 3/4 oz but do not show the trailer treb tied on yet.

http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=89020.0;topicseen

[Wiener]

You could use the large airplane jigs with the stinger.  They work great.

You might also want to try a superbraid fishing line, or perhaps wire.  (multistrand, not monel)


Hope this helps,


Wiener

[dabluz]

Daniel....sorry but I am about to bust your balloon.  Fluorocarbon line does stretch.  I did stretch tests with the line and it stretched as much as ordinary mono except for maybe Trilene XL.  It is also not as strong as ordinary mono and does not resist abraison like some think it does.  Abrasion resistance is only a matter of diameter of the line.  Since 10 lb original Stren is the thickest 10 lb test mono on the market, this is the line that resists abraision the best.

Stretch in mono is also dependant on it's diameter.  4 lb mono will stretch more than 80 lb mono.  I fish in water up to 600 feet deep when ice fishing.  I've tried lots of different monos in very deep water these past 35 years and if you want almost zero stretch you will have to go with braided line.  20 lb test braid is ample (the all break at close to 40 lbs) and then add a leader.

I tried Vanish in 6 lb test.  It took me 5 minutes to find that it has all the faults a line could have except "maybe", it's less visible in the water.  The visible aspect has yet to be proven a fault­.

Since I cut my mono with me teeth (up to 20 lb mono) I can tell you that some monos are harder than others.  Trilene XT is quite hard.  Much harder to cut than XL.  I'm talking about equal diameter lines.  Vanish fluorocarbon was not as hard as XT nor as hard as Silver Thread.  Seaguar fluorocarbon leader material seems quite hard but I have some in 15 lb test.

Since tying good knots in fluorocarbon is a touch and go proposition, I no longer use the stuff.

Berkley replaced my Vanish fluorocarbon with Fireline and even gave me a free spool of Vanish to try again.  I did.....it was still crap.  The 6 lb test Vanish was actually weaker than my 4 lb test Sensithin.  Sensithin no longer exists....and I don't know why.  It was the best mono I have ever used.  It was clear, it was manageable, it was thin, it was strong and it had excellent knot strength.

So for fishing lakers in deep water, try a braided line in 15 to 20 lb test or better yet, Fireline in 10 or 12 lb test.  20 lb test Fireline breaks at about 47 lb but the 20 lb Fireline is a bit too "kinky" to my liking.  It takes too long to break it in.  However, Fireline is thinner than the braided lines.

If you do an internet research on "abraison tests" and "strength tests" of fishing lines, you will find some excellent sites where independant tests were made.

[venom]

 On all of my laker rigs I run 30lb power pro with a 20lb stren for my leader. And when I out of stren I have been useing 20lb seaguar an berkley 20lb max all have been working fine for me.

[dabluz]

On all of my laker rigs I run 30lb power pro with a 20lb stren for my leader. And when I out of stren I have been useing 20lb seaguar an berkley 20lb max all have been working fine for me.

Did you know that Original Stren, beat all other monos and flourocarbon lines in abrasion tests.  It even beat some braided lines.  It is also among the strongest of the monos.  It's only downfall is the fact that it is inconsistent....meanin g that it has differences in diameter throughout it's length.  Ok, it is a bitter larger in diameter than other monos (which helps in abrasion resistance) but it is cheap.  I use 2 lb test Stren often.  It's equivalent to 3 lb mono in size.  As you probably know, it's easy to find 2 lb mono and 4 lb mono but 3 lb mono is rare.  I sometimes buy 3 lb test Tectan.  Tectan is also available in 5 lb test.  It's a very high quality line but expensive and very difficult to find.  I think Cabelas sells it now.

It's surprising how a line that is over 40 years old is still among the top of it's class.

[brown-time]

Lots of really good solid advice here, IMO.  I like the 20# Power Pro braid and 12# P-line fluoro leader combo,, using the smallest black swivel to connect the two.  Reduces the spinning time before they will normally hit it, and will still reel through the big ice guides on a good mack rod.  I like a 42" laker rod make by a famous laker guide named Bernie in Colorado, has good backbone for a great hookset and sensitive solid graphite blank for sensitivity.  Some of my friends catch em to 40# and over on Blue Mesa here, (I'm usually messing around in the shallower water for a hog brown trout) and a #6 Mustad Triple grip trailer on the end of the 3/0 jig hook will usually catch and not come out.  Good luck. (BTW, the 12# leader is strong enough to land a 50# laker, as the last year's state record was landed with.  The biggums are usually leader shy with anything much heavier)

[jaklakmak]

I am a little bit leary of small black swivels. I have broke off three big lakers this year because the small black swivel i was using broke right in half at the barrel. These were made in America Eagle Claws. Never buy those again!!

[brown-time]

Good point.  I don't buy much Eagle Claw stuff anymore, even though it's based in Denver. Quality has gone way down IMO.  I buy the Berkley black swivels and have landed big trout and pike with no problems.  Thanks.

[dabluz]

Good point.  I don't buy much Eagle Claw stuff anymore, even though it's based in Denver. Quality has gone way down IMO.  I buy the Berkley black swivels and have landed big trout and pike with no problems.  Thanks.

Yes, I stick to Berkley snaps and swivels.  However, when I ever see stuff made by Sampo I buy as much as I can afford.  Sampo snaps and swivels are expensive.

[Daniel]

QUOTE FROM AN EARLIER POST "So for fishing lakers in deep water, try a braided line in 15 to 20 lb test or better yet, Fireline in 10 or 12 lb test.  20 lb test Fireline breaks at about 47 lb but the 20 lb Fireline is a bit too "kinky" to my liking.  It takes too long to break it in.  However, Fireline is thinner than the braided lines."

I love Braided lines during the summer because of the non stretch qualities which have proven to increase my hooking dramatically but i was under the impression that the non Mono or fluorocarbon lines become water logged and freeze during the winter.  Sounds like I am mistaken though.  Do you feel the bites better with the fireline?  Has your hooking ratio increased with it as well?  If I can use these superlines for jigging as well i would be very excited.

[Drifter_016]

I have fireline on 2 reels and Power Pro Ice Line on 2 reels plus mono on the last reel.
You can feel a whitefish fart in 80 feet of water with the braid, love the stuff. 

[er-e-is]

''You can feel a whitefish fart in 80 feet of water with the braid, love the stuff.''

I agree..... .....you can almost smell it....  

[dabluz]

I love Braided lines during the summer because of the non stretch qualities which have proven to increase my hooking dramatically but i was under the impression that the non Mono or fluorocarbon lines become water logged and freeze during the winter.  Sounds like I am mistaken though.  Do you feel the bites better with the fireline?  Has your hooking ratio increased with it as well?  If I can use these superlines for jigging as well i would be very excited.

Actually, mono absorbs up to 15% water.

Braid and fusion lines do not absorb any water.  However, braids have tiny spaces in it due to the braiding process.  These tiny spaces do carry water.  Fusion lines like Fireline do not absorb water but water does get carried on it's surface just as water gets carried by mono line.

I prefer Fireline above all the other lines.  Since it is not braided, it's the smallest in diameter.  In strength tests involving all the lines on the market, Fireline was the strongest and by a pretty good margin.  It's almost twice as strong as stated on the box.  However, it has very little stretch and any sudden snap of the line could mean a break in a line.  So far, the only time this has happened is when I am casting and the line has somehow got tangled somewhere.  The sudden stop of the lure in mid-air could snap the line.  But, even mono will snap....but the braids and Fireline are more susceptible to snapping.

The drawback with Fireline is the fact that since it is not braided, it will fray.  The fraying will depend on how you treat your line.  I have not seen much fraying.  I have 10 lb test Fireline on a reel and it has been there since Fireline has been out on the market.  Ok, after about 8 years, I switched the ends on my Fireline and I did cut off a little bit every now and then when tying on a new snap.  Another disadvantage to Fireline is it's tendancy to slip when putting a knot in it.  The only recommended knot is the Palomar knot.  I use the double Palomar knot (where there is an extra turn in the granny knot).  Another way to tie the double Palomar knot is to double the line and then make you knot.

What I don't like about the braided lines is the fact that most of them are covered with a waxy surface that makes them a bit stiffer.  For some reason, people complained about how braid would wrap around the end of the rod.  Mono does this too.  Anyway, this covering makes the line a bit thicker and stiffer.  If for any reason the line gets rubbed on something, the covering is removed and the line becomes unsightly.  The braids I use have no extra covering (Mason Tiger Braid and Tuff Line).  However, not many people know that there are 3 types of Tuff Line.  The XT, the Plus and the ordinary Tuff Line.  The XT and the Plus, have a waxy covering.  The "Tuff Line" does not.  However is very hard to find.

It all depends on what you want in a line.  I want it to be supple.  For some reason, I can cast it further when it is supple.

Yes, for ice fishing, braided lines do carry more water to the rod tip and right up to the reel but the ice buildup on the line is not a problem for me.

Braided lines and fusion lines are a real revolution for those who fish in deep water.  I often fish in 250 to 450 feet of water for cod, halibut, ocean perch etc on the Saguenay River.  It's a real charm to use braid in deep water.  You can feel what type of bottom you are fishing, you really feel the faintest bite and you can strike the fish as if you were fishing in 10 feet of water.

You can always use a mono or fluorocarbon leader.

Casting distance is the same as mono but being able to downsize the diameter of the line yet have just as much strength or even more strength means that you can cast far, with light lures, yet have excellent strength.

I still use mono but only mono in 6 lb test or lighter for finesse fishing.

The reason I use mono for finesse fishing is the fact that I do not put anything other than a small hook (baited with a nightcrawler) on the end of my line.  The mono does not sink as rapidly as braid or fluorocarbon therefore, I can cast far yet not get hooked on bottom.  Due to the buoyant mono, every time I twitch my line, the bait rises off the bottom (does not drag and get snagged).  However, I have never tried putting some light grease on my braided lines in order to stop them from sinking too fast.

As for visibility, it does seem that walleye bite more on mono than braid or Fireline.  But the difference, if there is a difference is hard to determine.  Brook trout and walleye will definately bite more on smaller monos than on larger monos.  This I have seen often.

I tried fluorocarbon (regular line and leader material) a couple of times and the line was a real disappointment.  4 lb mono was stronger than 6 lb test fluorocarbon and the knots held up better.

[prchslyr]

I have had really good luck with flourocarbon lines. Braided lines seem to spook a little bit where I fish. There are reasons some of these monofilaments are disappearing.

[GAMBELL]

Here is what I run for lakers - 30" Medium action rod, 12 lb. Fireline and 10 lb Seagar florocarbon leader.  Quality florocarbon is a must.  I have tried many brands of florocarbon and settled with Seagar.  It is a lot more expensive but you pay for what you get.  Another thing that helps keep lakers hooked better is sharp hooks.  I also add some kind of scent to my jigs.  Lunker lotion or Smelly jelly in Herring or Smelt scents are good.  I have found the lakers take the jigs a lot deeper with scent on them. 

[dabluz]

Here is what I run for lakers - 30" Medium action rod, 12 lb. Fireline and 10 lb Seagar florocarbon leader.  Quality florocarbon is a must.  I have tried many brands of florocarbon and settled with Seagar.  It is a lot more expensive but you pay for what you get.  Another thing that helps keep lakers hooked better is sharp hooks.  I also add some kind of scent to my jigs.  Lunker lotion or Smelly jelly in Herring or Smelt scents are good.  I have found the lakers take the jigs a lot deeper with scent on them. 

I used Vanish fluorocarbon a couple of times and one good thing about it, the company replaces it or gives you your money back.  Then I won a spool of Seaguar leader material....15 lb test.  I used it pike fishing through the ice.  The bottom of the river where I fish for pike is littered with logs left over from the era when rivers were used to float logs to the mills.  It's real easy to get snagged on bottom and eventually I did get snagged.  Anyway, the Seaguar broke way before my real cheap 10 lb test mono at 4 dollars for 750 yards....lol.

I cut mono with my teeth.  I can actually feel how hard a line is and how fine it is.  One of the hardest is Berkley XT.  It is harder than Seaguar or just as hard.  Yes, XL seams to be the softest.  Berkley Sensithin is right in the middle and is one of the thinnest I have used.  Silver Thread is surprising too yet not expensive.  I sure would hate having Berkley and or Seaguar as a sponsor if I was a pro and have to use fluorocarbon.  But, somehow, I seem to be one of the few on the internet and TV that feels that way.  However, out on the water with friends and or shore fishing with strangers, I often hear about how they don't like fluorocarbon.

Here in my area, we are allowed to use 3 baited hooks for fishing.  When fishing from shore, the only method for consistently catching brook trout in the Saguenay river is by using a 1 to 2 ounce weight at the end of the line and adding hooks above the sinker.  I use loop knots to add hooks.  No matter how I lubricate the line before tightening up the knot, my loop knots are extremely weak.  Snagging on bottom is very frequent.  I can't trust fluorocarbon at all.

[Drifter_016]

I used Vanish fluorocarbon a couple of times and one good thing about it, the company replaces it or gives you your money back.  Then I won a spool of Seaguar leader material....15 lb test.  I used it pike fishing through the ice.  The bottom of the river where I fish for pike is littered with logs left over from the era when rivers were used to float logs to the mills.  It's real easy to get snagged on bottom and eventually I did get snagged.  Anyway, the Seaguar broke way before my real cheap 10 lb test mono at 4 dollars for 750 yards....lol.

I cut mono with my teeth.  I can actually feel how hard a line is and how fine it is.  One of the hardest is Berkley XT.  It is harder than Seaguar or just as hard.  Yes, XL seams to be the softest.  Berkley Sensithin is right in the middle and is one of the thinnest I have used.  Silver Thread is surprising too yet not expensive.  I sure would hate having Berkley and or Seaguar as a sponsor if I was a pro and have to use fluorocarbon.  But, somehow, I seem to be one of the few on the internet and TV that feels that way.  However, out on the water with friends and or shore fishing with strangers, I often hear about how they don't like fluorocarbon.

Here in my area, we are allowed to use 3 baited hooks for fishing.  When fishing from shore, the only method for consistently catching brook trout in the Saguenay river is by using a 1 to 2 ounce weight at the end of the line and adding hooks above the sinker.  I use loop knots to add hooks.  No matter how I lubricate the line before tightening up the knot, my loop knots are extremely weak.  Snagging on bottom is very frequent.  I can't trust fluorocarbon at all.

I agree, flouro does not work well with a number of knots. When I use 4# leader material when float fishing for steelhead I have to use and ant swivel because the flouro won't cinch up properly using a blood knot. It is also very weak. It does work well with the improved clinch, trilene and palomar knots though.

The biggest advantage of flouro is that it disappears under water and this allows you to use higher test leaders than you could with regular mono that doesn't disappear under water.

[Mudslide]

I use a double uni knot to join fluorocarbon to my fireline and it rarely fails. I don't like the Vanish at all. It breaks at the drop of a hat.

[thefinlessbrown2]

your rod is too soft i would say ......
            not sure where your are but up here we often use an oak hand made jigging stick no bend and it sends it home when you set it... lakers are tough jawed and its not uncommon to lose a few...also a flouro leader is fine but like mentioned earlier use a hybred line braid like power pro or something like that ...no stretch at all !!!!!

[JimF]

Sharpen those hooks.!! Get a small medium diamond file and triangluate the hookpoints.

 Never introduce slack into the line. Lift and reel down as you recover line. Try to keep the rodtip below your head level. Have a good drag and play the fish from the reel. Once you get it coming up; slow and steady. Hope you have someone standing by with a gaff or a hand for a gillhold lift out.

Misses are almost as good as catches. Some will get away.

Hope this improves your fishing luck...

[lotwfisher]

I am using the same rod but in the 45" for outside and 36" inside a hut. I would just simply add a stinger hook and it will solve most of your problems. I usually tie my own stingers with wire that way I can set the length depending on the lure but the ones that I think northland sells that have the waxed loop work well also. And remember lakers always run when they get near the bottom of the hole so be prepared for it.