northern pike eradication

[SPARKYICE]

awhike back the subject of northern pike in trout waters was a pretty hot topic. i don't know where my dad got this article, but he forwarded it to me.


PORTOLA, Calif.(AP) State workers on Tuesday began pouring a toxic chemical into a lake nestled in the mountains of the Sierra Nevada as part of California's decade-long effort to exterminate a predatory northern pike.

A fleet of 25 boats set out on Lake Davis near Portola shortly after 7 a.m. PDT in what now amounts to the state's most expensive battle to date against an invasive species.

More than 500 officials with the state Department of Fish and Game are pouring 16,000 gallons of the fish poison Rotenone into the 7-mile-long lake and its tributaries. Several hours after they began Tuesday, dead fish were already washing up on the shore.

"We felt we really want to make sure we got those guys," said Department of Fish and Game spokesman Steve Martarano.

If left alone, biologists say, the toothy northern pike could take over Lake Davis and possibly escape to the Sacramento River system, devouring trout and salmon all the way to San Francisco Bay.

It is the second time the department has poisoned the lake, a nationally known reservoir for trout fly fishing in the Sierra Nevada back country about 150 miles northeast of Sacramento.

California first poisoned Lake Davis in 1997 but pike reappeared 18 months later, either reintroduced illegally by a rogue angler or having survived the first poising attempt.

This time, wildlife officials are using a new formulation of liquid Rotenone, an aquatic insecticide that has successfully killed northern pike in other reservoirs. They also have mapped out the area with global positioning technology, Martarano said.

Department of Fish and Game officials treated 137 miles of streams and tributaries in the area the week of September 10.

Wildlife officials have tried overfishing, nets, electric shocks, traps, even explosions to try to kill off the pike population in the last seven years, which nonetheless has exploded and threatens the lake's trout.

The pike _ which are native to the Midwest and Canada _ typically grow to weigh about 55 pounds. For every pound, the pike spawns 10,000 eggs, according to state wildlife officials.

"We've taken 65,000 pike out and it hasn't made an impact," Martarano said. "Now we just have to hope we get all the pike, which we're pretty confident we will."

The state has spent about $20 million on pike eradication efforts in Plumas County since 1989, when the fish were first discovered and successfully removed from Frenchman Reservoir, east of Lake Davis. This latest effort is expected to cost up to $16 million.

[BUCKSKI]

HUMMMM? I can see their point, but it appears a little extreme. I would like to know the effects of the poison on trout and other fish.
I would rather see electroshocking in the spring, a bounty or tournamnets set up to focus on the fish itself.

[Neptune]

setting up a commercial fishery is a viable alternative also.

Northern Pike is fantastic eating fish, and in California it wouldn't be hard to sell for a profit!!!


Good Fishing

[Wissota Bear]

  That kind of scares me.  Them being able to target a single species like that.

[Neptune]

That kind of scares me.  Them being able to target a single species like that.

Rotenone is a piscecide.  It isn't species specific.  They are killing the lake in order to start from scratch.  The lake they are attempting to do this in is quite large and my money is on the Pike!  The Northern Pike is prehistoric and has survived much worse than a little poison in a water system over its history. 

Check this out for a little more infor:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone


Good Fishing

[ickirby]

Trout=$$$      Pike=Trash Fish 

This is an insightful thread there is no need to go trying to start an argument by saying something like that.

They are killing the lake in order to start from scratch... and my money is on the Pike!...

I couldn't agree more.  They probably would have been further ahead to spend that 20 million on public awareness to avoid further "rouge angler" stocking and some type of control structures to contain the pike in that lake within the watershed.

[Prairiegoat]

The pike _ which are native to the Midwest and Canada _ typically grow to weigh about 55 pounds. For every pound, the pike spawns 10,000 eggs, according to state wildlife officials.

Where do they get these so called wildlife experts? If that statement was even remotely true, there would be pike fisherman flying in from around the world and the economic impact would have demanded their continued existence.

Trout=$$$      Pike=Trash Fish 

[SPARKYICE]

 
i've never posted a pic befor, don't know what aill happen

[Neptune]

Where do they get these so called wildlife experts? If that statement was even remotely true, there would be pike fisherman flying in from around the world and the economic impact would have demanded their continued existence.

Prariegoat, here is the situation...Pike are much more prolific breeders than Trout.  Result in most waterways is that Pike "flood" the environment (Over populate it).  All species of fish emit hormones into the water that stunt the growth of the competing fish of like species.  When enough Pike are in a body of water they all stop growing, they consume everything else, including each other.  Pike are a high order fish species, hence their shape and the position of their eyes on their head.  If left unchecked Pike WILL be the only species in a lake....

Now I'm not Pike Bashing here, I enjoy the heck outta catching those toothy critters!  And I love eating them.  But in waterways where there are only a couple other species Pike will quickly dominate and consume the other species.

Larger, more diverse waterways/lakes have a better chance at stabalizing with a more diverse biological population i.e. many different species of fish.  It is in smaller lakes where the biodiversity has trouble being maintained....


Good Fishing

[Mooter]

Trout=$$$      Pike=Trash Fish 

TROUT   WALLEYE 

[BUCKSKI]

My view trout are over rated! for the table

I'll take some walleye over trout any day of the week.
Trout do cooperate during the winter months and fight well.

Been to montana and the creeks and river near big sky were awesome, wished I fished them.

I Also would travel to get a 50lb pike! Neptune they do taste good its just the extra cleaning time and the slim.

[icy mike]

Here's idea... cross breed the trout and northern pike to produce a hybrid!  We can call them rainbow pike or northern trout

[Mooter]

Here's idea... cross breed the trout and northern pike to produce a hybrid!  We can call them rainbow pike or northern trout

or ugly toothy slimy critter

[ice dawg]

Here's idea... cross breed the trout and northern pike to produce a hybrid!  We can call them rainbow pike or northern trout

Rainbow Snot Rocket???

[Prairiegoat]

Prariegoat, here is the situation...Pike are much more prolific breeders than Trout.  Result in most waterways is that Pike "flood" the environment (Over populate it).  All species of fish emit hormones into the water that stunt the growth of the competing fish of like species.  When enough Pike are in a body of water they all stop growing, they consume everything else, including each other.  Pike are a high order fish species, hence their shape and the position of their eyes on their head. If left unchecked Pike WILL be the only species in a lake....

Now I'm not Pike Bashing here, I enjoy the heck outta catching those toothy critters!  And I love eating them.  But in waterways where there are only a couple other species Pike will quickly dominate and consume the other species.

Larger, more diverse waterways/lakes have a better chance at stabalizing with a more diverse biological population i.e. many different species of fish.  It is in smaller lakes where the biodiversity has trouble being maintained....


Good Fishing

What are you talking about? Here's the situation? Read a post before responding next time, OK?

All I posted was if the "typical pike", as the wildlife guy stated, "weighs 55 pounds", there would be a mass influx of world wide pike fisherman descending on the lake and the impact economically would be so great they'd leave the lake as is! Even in European waters a 55 pound pike is a rarity, the last one reported was caught in a lake in northern Italy. Guess the expert has no clue on weights because the record over here is 46lb 2oz., 1940, Sacandaga Reservoir, NY; so his statement was far from typical.

[Neptune]

What are you talking about? Here's the situation? Read a post before responding next time, OK?

All I posted was if the "typical pike", as the wildlife guy stated, "weighs 55 pounds", there would be a mass influx of world wide pike fisherman descending on the lake and the impact economically would be so great they'd leave the lake as is! Even in European waters a 55 pound pike is a rarity, the last one reported was caught in a lake in northern Italy. Guess the expert has no clue on weights because the record over here is 46lb 2oz., 1940, Sacandaga Reservoir, NY; so his statement was far from typical.

Easy Chainsaw!  No Harm, No Foul man...  Just trying to explain why you wouldn't get a lake full of 55 pound pike.  I believe we are arguing the same point...

Poisoning the lake will just slow them down for a while...I don't think the Pike will be eradicated from that body of water.


Good Fishing

[jayswimmer09]

i love catching pike just as much as the other guy, but it doesnt bother me them doing this at all. The pike can and will take over those lakes and if theres a ton of trout in there those pike WILL grow huge. you have to keep a little bit of every species for everyone to be happy

[darkhousefisher]

or ugly toothy slimy critter

Are we still talking about fish, .....or my Mother In-Law?

[Mainehazmt]

Are we still talking about fish, .....or my Mother In-Law?

lol

[Mooter]

Are we still talking about fish, .....or my Mother In-Law?

True that
 

[Skipper]

Pike are tough, I hope they used enough poison! How would they get enough poison into a lake to kill every living thing in it and insure it mixes completely? Will all of the locals die too from the runoff? What if livestock drinks the water? They could have got them all in the spring when they spawn, they all head for shallow water.

[Prairiegoat]

Easy Chainsaw!  No Harm, No Foul man...  Just trying to explain why you wouldn't get a lake full of 55 pound pike.   I believe we are arguing the same point...

Good Fishing

Neptune, I wasn't trying to start an argument or offend you either, but in answer to your statement above, no, you were giving an opinion to a question that was not asked.

I questioned how could a wildlife person put out such irresponsible misinformation on the "typical weight" of northern pike to the media... no more, no less. There are too many people who will read that as gospel. They are the ones you would need to give your explanation to as to why the remarks from the wildlife official were completely off base, but by then the damage is done. People uneducated about northern pike and reading the remark could easily assume the lake is full of 55 pound pike producing 550,000 eggs each leading them to believe an explosion of pike had occurred and must definitely be eradicated. I can only assume from reading the wildlife official's statement that could well have been the intent.

Before you think I'm just another pike lover off on a tangent, I fish trout probably 90% of the time. I just disdain misinformation from people in a position of trust.

Thanks for listening.
Prairiegoat

[hardh2ofish]

Anyone who states that 55# is 'typical' is probly also better known as GOD and im damn sure gonna live better in hopes that someday I dont miss out on that action   

[gaudetskie]

Pike are tough, I hope they used enough poison! How would they get enough poison into a lake to kill every living thing in it and insure it mixes completely? Will all of the locals die too from the runoff? What if livestock drinks the water? They could have got them all in the spring when they spawn, they all head for shallow water.

I agree, I can't imagine this going wrong, or any unenforceable consequences (sarcasm)
just my 2 cents pike taste better on the table than trout.

[hardh2ofish]

just my 2 cents pike taste better on the table than trout.

  I Concure 

[Whatpole]

Are we still talking about fish, .....or my Mother In-Law?

I personally know your mother in-law, Darkhouse, and I would have to agree. But, don't tell her I said that. 

[Neptune]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the wrong time of year to be poisoning that lake with Rotenone?  From what I read, Rotenone is light sensitive and becomes inert after about 2 weeks in direct sunlight, taking up to 6 months to become inert in water.  For arguments sake lets assume that lake has more deep water that shallow.  Well with fall coming on and the water cooling the Pike are moving out of the deep water into the shallower water.  The way I see it the pike are going to be moving toward, or are already in, the water that will have inert Rotenone in it first.  Shallower water allows more sunlight hence shorter active life of the Rotenone. 

From the article it also says that the lake spills out into another major waterway....WATCH OUT DOWNSTREAM!

This whole plan just doesn't sound very well thought out to me...

GO PIKE GO!



Good Fishing

[SPARKYICE]

another well thought out plan


By JUDITH KOHLER - Associated Press Writer
 
DENVER(AP) A 20-year government effort to restore the population of an endangered native trout in Colorado has made little progress because biologists have been stocking some of the waterways with the wrong fish, a new study says.
 
Advances in genetic testing helped biologist discover the error, which was called a potential black eye, but they said there is still hope for restoring the greenback cutthroat trout.
 
The three-year study, led by University of Colorado researchers and published online in Molecular Ecology on Aug. 28, said that five of the nine populations believed to be descendants of the endangered trout were actually the more common Colorado River cutthroat trout, which look similar.
 
The study said the results imply that the effort has "failed to improve the species' status."
 
Lead author, Jessica Metcalf, who recently completed her doctorate in ecology and evolutionary biology at the university, was optimistic about the ongoing restoration program because four populations have been identified as "pure greenback cutthroat trout."
 
Bruce Rosenlund of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which is leading the recovery effort, said the agency is reviewing the study.
 
"The report is just a continuation of different expert input provided to the team for consideration for restoration," Rosenlund said.
 
Colorado and federal biologists have a goal of 20 self-sustaining populations of at least 500 fish each. The cost of the program was not available.
 
Greenback cutthroat trout were historically found in the drainages of the Arkansas and South Platte rivers in Colorado and a small part of Wyoming. They were declared extinct in 1937 because of overfishing, pollution from mines and competition from nonnative fish.
Researchers said remnant populations were found in the 1950s in tributaries and provided brood stock for fish raised in federal and state hatcheries and released in their native habitat.
 
The fish was added to the federal endangered species list in 1978.
 
The greenback were believed to be in 142 miles of waterways, including in Rocky Mountain National Park, Rosenlund said.
 
The new study, based DNA test results, found the greenback cutthroat trout's range is only 11 miles of streams.
 
The research results are a setback but state biologists believe the program will succeed over the long term, said Tyler Baskfield, Colorado Division of Wildlife spokesman.
 
"We've been moving fish around in the state since the late 1800s, and now the new science comes in and all of a sudden it's a different playing field," Baskfield said.
 
University of Colorado professor Andrew Martin, the study's principal investigator, said that while the findings might give the recovery program a "black eye," the hope is that biologists and agencies will move ahead on recovering the species before it goes extinct.
 
 

[Walltrout]

Here's idea... cross breed the trout and northern pike to produce a hybrid!  We can call them rainbow pike or northern trout

OR how about a Walleye and a Trout and call it Walltrout... hmmm    I sounds familiar   

[deadsmelthead]

You know here in New York they do this type of thing all the time. Just off the top of my head I could probaly name off a dozen or so.They like to make it sound nicer though and call it RECLAIMING.

I would look at the wiping them out option as maybe a long term thing if nothing else seems to handle them. Me personaly I like to fish lakes that have a little variety every time you go out it leaves you with a few options.
I can think of one area in particular here where the Bass got into a couple good size Brook Trout ponds.The brook trout got and are  HUGE, but there numbers have dwindled  once the trout become part of the Pikes diet in this case I bet the out come isn't gonna be prettty for the trout but I bet it will kick out a couple of monsters for both species if they wait it out for a few years.Advertise that and sell it. Monster Pike and Monster Trout. Id check it out if I could.