Live bait regs

[mikez]

I recently discovered bringing live baitfish into NH is prohibited.
I searched the regs and didn't see anything about how you're supposed to prove your bait came from NH.
Does the warden ask for a receipt?
What about if you trap your own? How do you prove that?
Is it typical to be questioned about your bait when you see a warden?

No immediate plans to fish NH, just checking.

[lv2huntandfish]

Live free or die

[Slabmaster1]

Does anyone know how thick the ice is in Manchester?

[mikez]

Pretty confusing to dig into the regs.
If I read it correctly, the fishing regs say it's illegal to import live fish or eggs. So technically you couldn't buy aquarium fish out of state.

But when you look at regs about what animals are legal to possess as pets without a permit, aquarium fish don't require a permit but nothing is said about where they come from.
However;
All native fish including every single legal bait fish, a permit is required to possess!???

Two different dueling sets of regs that contradict.
Does that mean you can use shiners for bait but not keep them as pets?
Does an aquarium used as a bait tank require a permit?
Can you buy aquarium fish in Massachusetts or online from other states?
Crazy.

[AQUAASSASSIN]

Does anyone know how thick the ice is in Manchester?

 

[Coffin Dodger]

Pretty confusing to dig into the regs.
If I read it correctly, the fishing regs say it's illegal to import live fish or eggs. So technically you couldn't buy aquarium fish out of state.

But when you look at regs about what animals are legal to possess as pets without a permit, aquarium fish don't require a permit but nothing is said about where they come from.
However;
All native fish including every single legal bait fish, a permit is required to possess!???

Two different dueling sets of regs that contradict.
Does that mean you can use shiners for bait but not keep them as pets?
Does an aquarium used as a bait tank require a permit?
Can you buy aquarium fish in Massachusetts or online from other states?
Crazy.

You're mixing apples with oranges!
Not familiar with pet laws, but I believe most aquarium fish go in the toilet when you're done with them? Read that if you really love your pet guppy and need to euthanize it, put it in a baggy with warm water and place it in your freezer.
Re: importing "live bait", the goal is to not introduce "invasive species" and disease in to NH waters.
Some examples in other states, Gobies, zebra mussels, brought in bilges (originally from other countries) that have infiltrated native waters.
Disease,,,,We really don't want our waters to become as inaccessible as the the Quabbin reservoir.   

[TheCrittaC]

Does anyone know how thick the ice is in Manchester?

I think meatandmetal does

[Capt. Black]

I think meatandmetal does

He would be the one to contact!

[Art 53]

CD I read it quick and thought said pet puppy !!

[AQUAASSASSIN]

I think meatandmetal does

Lmao!

[Coffin Dodger]

I think meatandmetal does

^ ^ He's right you know! 

CD I read it quick and thought said pet puppy !!

I can see that happening, though. 

[TonyThunder]

Does anyone know how thick the ice is in Manchester?

Where did this come from???

[mikez]

You're mixing apples with oranges!
Not familiar with pet laws, but I believe most aquarium fish go in the toilet when you're done with them? Read that if you really love your pet guppy and need to euthanize it, put it in a baggy with warm water and place it in your freezer.
Re: importing "live bait", the goal is to not introduce "invasive species" and disease in to NH waters.
Some examples in other states, Gobies, zebra mussels, brought in bilges (originally from other countries) that have infiltrated native waters.
Disease,,,,We really don't want our waters to become as inaccessible as the the Quabbin reservoir.

"Importation of live fish or their eggs, including bait fish, is prohibited without a special permit."

That's pretty clear. Importation of live fish INCLUDING bait fish is prohibited. Where does that leave room for aquarium fish? Live fish are live fish, right? What am I missing?
That sure seems to prohibit ordering fish online as many of do, as well as driving to another state to visit pet shops as many of us do.

Then, from the regs regarding exotic pets;

Fis 804.05 Controlled Species - Possession.

(a) A permit to possess wildlife shall be required for all species, including hybrids, designated as controlled as cited in the controlled table under (b), below.

(b) A permit shall be issued only to a person in the permittee category(ies), as defined in Fis 802.01, and cited in Table 800.2:

Fish
            
    
1, 6
Tilapia
    
                
    
1, 6
Alewife
Alosa pseudoharengus
 
    
1, 6
American brook lamprey
Lethenteron appendix
 
    
1, 6
American Eel
Anguilla rostrata
 
    
1, 6
American Shad
Alosa sapidissima
 
    
1, 6
Atlantic Salmon
Salmo salar
 
    
1, 6
Banded Killifish
Fundulus diaphanus
 
    
1, 6
Banded Sunfish
Enneacanthus obesus
 
    
1, 6
Black Crappie
Pomoxis nigromaculatus
 
    
1, 6
Blacknose Dace
Rhinichthys atratulus
 
    
1, 6
Blacknose Shiner
Notropis heterolepis
 
    
1, 6
Blueback Herring
Alosa aestivalis
 
    
1, 6
Bluegill
Lepomis macrochirus
 
    
1, 6
Bridle Shiner
Notropis bifrenatus
 
    
1, 6
Brook Trout
Salvelinus fontinalis
 
    
1, 6
Brown Bullhead
Ameiurus nebulosus
 
    
1, 6
Brown Trout
Salmo trutta
 
    
1, 6
Burbot
Lota lota
 
    
1, 6
Chain Pickerel
Esox niger
 
    
1, 6
Channel Catfish
Ictalurus punctatus
 
    
1, 6
Common Carp
Cyprinus carpio
 
    
1, 6
Common Shiner
Luxilus cornutus
 
    
1, 6
Common White Sucker
Catostomus commersoni
 
    
1, 6
Creek Chub
Semotilus atromaculatus
 
    
1, 6
Eastern Creek Chubsucker
Erimyzon oblongus
 
    
1, 6
Eastern Silvery Minnow
Hybognathus regius
 
    
1, 6
Emerald Shiner
Notropis atherinoides
 
    
1, 6
Fallfish
Semotilus corporalis
 
    
1, 6
Fathead Minnow
Pimephales promelas
 
    
1, 6
Finescale Dace
Chrosomus neogaeus
 
    
1, 6
Fourspine Stickleback
Apeltes quadracus
 
    
1, 6
Golden Shiner
Notemigonus crysoleucas
 
    
1, 6
Lake Chub
Couesius plumbeus
 
    
1, 6
Lake Trout
Salvelinus namaycush
 
    
1, 6
Lake Whitefish
Coregonus clupeaformis
 
    
1, 6
Largemouth Bass
Micropterus salmoides
 
    
1, 6
Longnose Dace
Rhinichthys cataractae
 
    
1, 6
Longnose Sucker
Catostomus catostomus
 
    
1, 6
Margined Madtom
Noturus insignis
 
    
1, 6
Mummichog
Fundulus heteroclitus
 
    
1, 6
Ninespine Stickleback
Pungitius pungitius
 
    
1, 6
Northern Pike
Esox lucius
 
    
1, 6
Northern Redbelly Dace
Chrosomus eos
 
    
1, 6
Pumpkinseed
Lepomis gibbosus
 
    
1, 6
Rainbow Smelt
Osmerus mordax
 
    
1, 6
Rainbow Trout
Oncorhynchus mykiss
 
    
1, 6
Redbreast Sunfish
Lepomis auritus
 
    
1, 6
Redfin Pickerel
Esox americanus americanus
 
    
1, 6
Rock Bass
Ambloplites rupestris
 
    
1, 6
Round Whitefish
Prosopium cylindraceum
 
    
1, 6
Sea Lamprey
Petromyzon marinus
 
    
1, 6
Slimy Sculpin
Cottus cognatus
 
    
1, 6
Smallmouth Bass
Micropterus dolomieui
 
    
1, 6
Splake
hybrid (brookxlake trout)
 
    
1, 6
Spottail Shiner
Notropis hudsonius
 
    
1, 6
Sunapee Trout
Salvelinus aureolus
 
    
1, 6
Swamp Darter
Etheostoma fusiforme
 
    
1, 6
Tadpole Madtom
Noturus gyrinus
 
    
1, 6
Tessellated Darter
Etheostoma olmstedi
 
    
1, 6
Threespine Stickleback
Gasterosteus aculeatus
 
    
1, 6
Tiger Trout
hybrid (brownxbrook trout)
 
    
1, 6
Walleye
Sander vitreus
 
    
1, 6
White Perch
Morone americana
 
    
1, 6
Yellow Bullhead
Ameiurus natalis
 
    
1, 6
Yellow Perch
Perca flavescens
 
    
1, 6
Hybrid striped bass
 
That's pretty much every freshwater fish in the state.

So you can keep golden shiners for example without a permit if you call it "bait" but you need a permit if you decide you want them in your aquarium as "pets". Even if your bait tank is also your aquarium.
Obviously if you want native fish in your aquarium you can always claim someday you're gonna use them as bait, so long as they're on the approved bait list. Which is exactly what I do in Ma.

[Coffin Dodger]

That's pretty clear. Importation of live fish INCLUDING bait fish is prohibited. Where does that leave room for aquarium fish? Live fish are live fish, right? What am I missing?
That sure seems to prohibit ordering fish online as many of do, as well as driving to another state to visit pet shops as many of us do.

So you can keep golden shiners for example without a permit if you call it "bait" but you need a permit if you decide you want them in your aquarium as "pets". Even if your bait tank is also your aquarium.
Obviously if you want native fish in your aquarium you can always claim someday you're gonna use them as bait, so long as they're on the approved bait list. Which is exactly what I do in Ma.

Mike, Not sure if it's just me or not, but you have me confused.
If you want to talk about gold or aquarium fish, I'd go to a pet forum.
If you want to keep golden shiners for pets and bait in MA, I'd trap them in MA and have at it.
If you want to rearrange our bait laws in NH as a resident of MA, I think you're SOL! 
If you have a specific question on NH bait, I would put it on here as a specific question. Much easier to deal with.
FWIW, you can use native (NH) Golden, Emeralds, Common and red fin shiners, smelt and tommy cod here etc.. Also, permitted smelt and Arkansas shiners from out of state. 

[PoolGuy]

Mike, Not sure if it's just me or not, but you have me confused.
If you want to talk about gold or aquarium fish, I'd go to a pet forum.
If you want to keep golden shiners for pets and bait in MA, I'd trap them in MA and have at it.
If you want to rearrange our bait laws in NH as a resident of MA, I think you're SOL! 
If you have a specific question on NH bait, I would put it on here as a specific question. Much easier to deal with.
FWIW, you can use native (NH) Golden, Emeralds, Common and red fin shiners, smelt and tommy cod here etc.. Also, permitted smelt and Arkansas shiners from out of state.

Well said CD....I knew you’d have some input on this topic 👍🏻

[mikez]

I guess my posts are too confusing.
I started with simple questions in my first post;

Do you need a receipt to prove your bait came from NH?

If you trap your own bait, how do you prove it came from NH?

Do wardens typically question your bait in the field?

In the attempt to discover the answer to those 3 simple questions I came upon the discrepancy between the two sets of regs. In my follow up post I was commenting on the confusion between two types of regs.
If that's too complicated, as it seems to be, forget the aquarium angle.
Can anyone at least answer the 3 original bait questions?
I haven't gotten any answers from sorting through what's online for regs.

[Mascoma]

I guess my posts are too confusing.
I started with simple questions in my first post;

Do you need a receipt to prove your bait came from NH?

If you trap your own bait, how do you prove it came from NH?

Do wardens typically question your bait in the field?

In the attempt to discover the answer to those 3 simple questions I came upon the discrepancy between the two sets of regs. In my follow up post I was commenting on the confusion between two types of regs.
If that's too complicated, as it seems to be, forget the aquarium angle.
Can anyone at least answer the 3 original bait questions?
I haven't gotten any answers from sorting through what's online for regs.

1. No
2. Show them where your traps are. I doubt a resident would be asked this in a normal situation.
3. Not here, never even ask. Again, in-state license

I've seen Fish and Game ask a lot of questions if they have found another violation or are suspicious of illegal activity.. But, if you don't break the laws or challenge them, they are very nice and respectful and especially with the youth.

[TheCrittaC]

I guess my posts are too confusing.
I started with simple questions in my first post;

Do you need a receipt to prove your bait came from NH?

If you trap your own bait, how do you prove it came from NH?

Do wardens typically question your bait in the field?

In the attempt to discover the answer to those 3 simple questions I came upon the discrepancy between the two sets of regs. In my follow up post I was commenting on the confusion between two types of regs.
If that's too complicated, as it seems to be, forget the aquarium angle.
Can anyone at least answer the 3 original bait questions?
I haven't gotten any answers from sorting through what's online for regs.

Nobody here including me is going to give you a straight answer because we aren't the law and "I saw on iceshanty dot com that BigRackHunter69 said you can bring shiners in from Massachusetts or Vermont" isn't a good legal excuse if you get questioned. For what it's worth, I'm a NH resident who traps his own bait and have never had a CO ask me where my bait came from.

[mikez]

1. No
2. Show them where your traps are. I doubt a resident would be asked this in a normal situation.
3. Not here, never even ask. Again, in-state license

I've seen Fish and Game ask a lot of questions if they have found another violation or are suspicious of illegal activity.. But, if you don't break the laws or challenge them, they are very nice and respectful and especially with the youth.

Thanks.
I think you hit on the crux by mentioning the resident license. I fish NH with a non-resident license. It would certainly make more sense to question an out of stater.

[mikez]

Nobody here including me is going to give you a straight answer because we aren't the law and "I saw on iceshanty dot com that BigRackHunter69 said you can bring shiners in from Massachusetts or Vermont" isn't a good legal excuse if you get questioned. For what it's worth, I'm a NH resident who traps his own bait and have never had a CO ask me where my bait came from.

Thanks.
I know better than to bet the farm based on any internet forum info. I had hoped the regs online would be clear but I couldn't find it spelled out.
In fairness, I didn't even know about the out of state ban till I read it here first. Obviously this place has plenty of knowledgeable fishermen so it seemed reasonable to at least ask.

[OldCaveman]

   I was checked by  fish & game for license recently and was asked were I got my bait.  Without thinking I told him I got it at Merrimack bait, the truth.  Our conversation moved on to a different subject and nothing was said about out of state bait. Had not even considered there to be a possible problem. Oooops

[TheCrittaC]

Thanks.
I know better than to bet the farm based on any internet forum info. I had hoped the regs online would be clear but I couldn't find it spelled out.
In fairness, I didn't even know about the out of state ban till I read it here first. Obviously this place has plenty of knowledgeable fishermen so it seemed reasonable to at least ask.

I think they make the regulations intentionally vague, and NH isn't the only state. Just do a search for NH/VT border water regulations and it'll make your head spin. Apparently one side says one thing and the other says the opposite (especially when it comes to bait). But I don't know because I haven't fished the Connecticut River.

[mikez]

I think they make the regulations intentionally vague, and NH isn't the only state. Just do a search for NH/VT border water regulations and it'll make your head spin. Apparently one side says one thing and the other says the opposite (especially when it comes to bait). But I don't know because I haven't fished the Connecticut River.

Right.
That's why I went off on the aquarium fish tangent.
It irritates me when states pass vague laws they can't or won't enforce.
Of course I don't expect NH to prevent residents from ordering guppies online from Florida, yet the letter of the law says it's illegal.
I don't expect a warden to see an aquarium tank full of shiners in your garage and ask if they're bait or pets, yet simply by calling them one or the other makes them legal or not.
Makes no sense and passing those lame laws is both expensive and time consuming.
I actually have an aquarium in my Living room that contains both shiners and goldfish. If goldfish are legal pets but not bait, and shiners are legal bait but not pets, am I breaking any laws? Which one? Can I name the shiners "bait" and the goldfish "pets" and be legal?
Just.food for thought, not a serious ice fishing question. 

[Arctic Addict]

So does anyone else fish for Lakers using purple Beta fish?

[TheCrittaC]

So does anyone else fish for Lakers using purple Beta fish?

I don't think it would work, they're usually really picky on what they eat.

[AQUAASSASSIN]

I try but they fight them off

[Rackbuck]

I believe the permits apply to bait dealers importing bait. Other than bait dealers you aren’t allowed to import. I don’t think F&G requires a receipt for recreational fishermen, just don’t bring bait from out of state.

[mikez]

Funny, how many guys in southern NH know of Merrimack bait. 😁😉
They do have great bait.
On another note, I'm a MA resident that has fished NH all my 50+ years and never once, have I been asked about where I got my bait. That being said, I've always known it is illegal to bring bait from MA to NH.
I've always supported the local guys in NH if I'm fishing up there anyway. MA already gets enough of my **** ing money.

I haven't fished NH this year and I didn't last year either.
Two years ago was my first time and I somehow missed that part about out of state bait when I read the general regs. I may have inadvertently broke that reg back then.

I trapped my own bait this year in Massachusetts to save money. I already got a good amount on hand. Buying more would be a bummer.
I also generally try to hit the ice at or before sunrise. Bait shops aren't usually open then.

No biggie. If I do end up going north, my NH buddies will have to fetch the bait.

[mikez]

I believe the permits apply to bait dealers importing bait. Other than bait dealers you aren’t allowed to import. I don’t think F&G requires a receipt for recreational fishermen, just don’t bring bait from out of state.

The dealers permit is different from the exotic pet permit I posted above.
It basically is a way of preventing residents from keeping native fish in captivity (aquarium). You can apply for the permit, I don't know how hard it is, some states are a pain. You have to prove you use them for education purpose etc. It also gives the state the right to drop by unannounced to check you out.

I know for a fact a bunch of guys on NH keep native fish in aquariums. I'm sure they have no clue they're breaking the law.

[Roccus]

Funny, how many guys in southern NH know of Merrimack bait. 😁😉
They do have great bait.
On another note, I'm a MA resident that has fished NH all my 50+ years and never once, have I been asked about where I got my bait. That being said, I've always known it is illegal to bring bait from MA to NH.
I've always supported the local guys in NH if I'm fishing up there anyway. MA already gets enough of my **** ing money.