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Author Topic: WARNING for Wallenpaupak  (Read 2295 times)

Offline Chris338378

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #30 on: Feb 08, 2019, 08:20 AM »
What I'm saying is I've been a volunteer firefighter for the past thirty years (and still am), I've been trained in ice rescue and am one of the guys who go in after the people that go through, and I also know how much it costs for our gear and equipment.  To you it's just a couple of cones however those cones cost right around $20 a piece so if you put out four, which you'd have to put out more than that to begin to be effective, you're looking at $80 then someone has to go out and put them there and if we're lucky enough that someone doesn't steal or they don't go through the melting ice at the end of the season someone has to go back out and get them.  Also who's going to go out and check the entire lake for safe and unsafe ice?  The ice that isn't safe for a 700 or more pound vehicle could be perfectly safe for ice fishermen to walk out and safely fish.   Yeah $80 doesn't sound like much but that's $80 we have to raise again and can't use to buy some other piece of equipment.  Now I'm not saying it's not worth spending $80 to try to prevent someone from getting hurt what I am saying is you need to understand what's involved and the actual costs.  And beyond all that there's still no guarantees people are even going to pay attention to the cones and avoid that area.  I'm all for keeping our people as safe as possible but a couple of cones isn't going do that because if someone is going to pay attention to the cones they'd more than likely be looking a head to see open water ahead of them and not continue to drive toward it.  Let's face it some people have more money than brain cells and stupid is becoming the new norm.

Offline Mr. Charlie

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #31 on: Feb 08, 2019, 08:45 AM »
Iíve grown up surrounded by paid professional paramedics/firefighters( mother and uncles ) , Iím very aware of what they as well as volunteers do. No one is saying that the entirety of a lake needs monitored but an existing danger should not be ignored. Also a few floating cones beat sinking citizens and firemen. If it helped to avoid any incident it is worth more than itís monetary value.
Keep yer worms warm!

Offline hard water jim

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #32 on: Feb 08, 2019, 11:15 AM »
I am with you Chris, it costs a lot more than a few cones that most are going to ignore anyway. After there sorry a** goes into the water then they realize what the cones were for. In my small town they had a street blocked off with cones and a sign with workers in a trench when a car plunged into the trench. Luckily no one was injured. The drivers comment was "I didn't know what the cones and sign meant"! I am sorry but people need to be responsible for there own actions and safety.

Yes $80.00 isn't that much until you work for a volunteer fire company and find out it isn't all that easy to raise money. I just helped with a fund raiser for our local volunteer fire company so I know a little about raising money. We spent over 300 man hours to raise $3000.00 and thought that was a success. The unfortunate part is the same older (and getting older) volunteers are doing the fund raising. The younger generation is not joining the volunteer fire companies because it takes too much of there time to go through the training like Chris and so many others have done. My hats off to Chris and all the volunteers that DONATE there time for training and go on rescues! 
If you think your going to have a bad day you will seldom disappoint yourself!

Offline Mr. Charlie

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #33 on: Feb 08, 2019, 11:48 AM »
I still canít defend any argument that would rather do nothing and put volunteers as well as citizens at any risk. Its negligent and could be avoided. It wouldnít be a fail safe but something is better than nothing. We share info here on ice safety and look out for each other all the time, this should be no different. I donít care if itís a bunch of punks on quads or snowmobiles or a family ice skating or an ice fisherman in the dark, it could happen at any time and a few markers is no different than us sharing conditions.
Keep yer worms warm!

Offline Chris338378

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #34 on: Feb 08, 2019, 01:03 PM »
I am with you Chris, it costs a lot more than a few cones that most are going to ignore anyway. After there sorry a** goes into the water then they realize what the cones were for. In my small town they had a street blocked off with cones and a sign with workers in a trench when a car plunged into the trench. Luckily no one was injured. The drivers comment was "I didn't know what the cones and sign meant"! I am sorry but people need to be responsible for there own actions and safety.

Yes $80.00 isn't that much until you work for a volunteer fire company and find out it isn't all that easy to raise money. I just helped with a fund raiser for our local volunteer fire company so I know a little about raising money. We spent over 300 man hours to raise $3000.00 and thought that was a success. The unfortunate part is the same older (and getting older) volunteers are doing the fund raising. The younger generation is not joining the volunteer fire companies because it takes too much of there time to go through the training like Chris and so many others have done. My hats off to Chris and all the volunteers that DONATE there time for training and go on rescues!

Thank you Sir for your appreciation, it means a lot to us to know people appreciate us and what we do.  Sadly you're right about the younger generation not joining.  Years ago when I first got on we'd roll out to a structure fire, which is the call everyone shows up for even if they don't run calls regularly, with at least twenty guys at night and during the day time at least a dozen guys would show up.  These days we're lucky if we get ten when everyone is around.  It certainly isn't getting any easier to raise money, all the same work needs to be done, the costs of equipment has at least tripled on most stuff, and there's a lot more training and the classes are longer.  Honestly it's pretty scary knowing how bad all the volunteer companies are hurting for new members not just here but nation wide.  The state just did a study on volunteer fire companies and the results are alarming to say the least.  Back in the 1970's there were around 300,000 and currently it's down to 38,000.  To put that into perspective 90% of the 2,400 fire companies in the state of Pennsylvania are volunteer and save tax payers state wide around 10 BILLION dollars A YEAR.  The scary part is the public doesn't seem to care and the politicians don't have any answers to help fix this or even seem to be remotely willing to try to help out.  A firetruck that we bought back in 1989 which is our main firetruck that cost us around $250,000 would cost around $750,000 easily.  And it's not just the price of the trucks that has more than tripled, even our turn out gear which is needed to even go on a call has.    Years ago a helmet cost $100 - now it's over $300, my first pair of bunker pants cost $120 - the ones I just got in December were $1,500, coats were $200 - the one I got in December was $1,700, boots were $100 - now they're $350-400 if you're lucky enough to find them on sale, gloves were $20 - now $80 or more, a hood was $20 - now they're over $50.  And this stuff isn't the very top of the line stuff, more like the extra good rated stuff.  Imagine being in our shoes trying to figure out how we can raise enough money afford to replace it.  I apologize for digressing but I felt that information needed to be shared and hopefully people will share it with others to help out our volunteers state wide.

Mr. Charlie, I understand your point and please don't think I'm disrespecting you as I'm not but I'm trying to point out my point of view as a firefighter.  We can agree to disagree which is the gentlemanly thing to do.

Offline Mr. Charlie

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #35 on: Feb 08, 2019, 01:14 PM »
Sir I absolutely appreciate what you do. I myself volunteered for many years until career and life took me another direction. My family has several paid professional EMS workers who come home from paid shifts and then run volunteer calls in our local community. I remember many family holidays where everyone ran out on tones during diner. This makes me want to keep our volunteers safe by any means. A few simple warning signs are a good use of the materials and training you have. This would keep your assets, apparatus, and responders out of a potentially dangerous incident. By no means take this as anything other than being concerned about the safety of anyone and everyone out there.
Keep yer worms warm!

Offline Chris338378

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #36 on: Feb 08, 2019, 01:24 PM »
Thank you to you and your family for being part of the brother/sisterhood we share.  I understand fully your concern and nothing more or less.  One other thing that came to mind is the what if they did mark off that area and didn't mark off another area which had similar conditions and someone went in at the second spot, I'm sure there's some bottom feeder lawyer who'd be running out as fast as he or she could to sue the fire company because the second spot wasn't marked.  Honestly it's almost as if it's a double edged sword to some extent. 

Offline Mr. Charlie

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Re: WARNING for Wallenpaupak
« Reply #37 on: Feb 08, 2019, 01:38 PM »
Well that lawyer probably has a summer house on Lake Wallenpaupak that he has to pay for. Lol

Much respect to all the volunteers and EMS workers.
Keep yer worms warm!

 



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