Author Topic: Left over roaches and suckers  (Read 3081 times)

Offline Coachkwj

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Left over roaches and suckers
« on: Jan 19, 2019, 04:35 PM »
What is the best way to keep and sore left over roaches and suckers for using as dead bait. Hate to take then home and watch them slowly die, even in fish tank with air pump.
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #1 on: Jan 19, 2019, 05:12 PM »
Ok...what's a roach? I'm assuming it's not the bug type...or is it?
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Offline JonPerry

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #2 on: Jan 19, 2019, 05:56 PM »
in the freezer.

Offline RyanW

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #3 on: Jan 19, 2019, 07:29 PM »
Ok...what's a roach? I'm assuming it's not the bug type...or is it?

Essentially a golden shiner that gets huge. I’ve heard of them but had to google it.

If you plan on using them dead anyways just freeze them. Or pack them in salt.
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Offline Coachkwj

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #4 on: Jan 19, 2019, 08:09 PM »
Ok...what's a roach? I'm assuming it's not the bug type...or is it?
You've probably used golden roaches but they were mistakenly called shiners. Shiners are thinner bodied minnows more commonly used as walleye bait.
Just throwing them in the freezer hasn't worked too well. They get freezer burn. Does anyone put some kind of solution in with them before freezing?
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline Kevin23

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #5 on: Jan 23, 2019, 05:46 PM »
You've probably used golden roaches but they were mistakenly called shiners. Shiners are thinner bodied minnows more commonly used as walleye bait.
Just throwing them in the freezer hasn't worked too well. They get freezer burn. Does anyone put some kind of solution in with them before freezing?

Common shiners and roaches are pretty hard to tell apart when they are young, except roaches will have the orange eyes and orange fins. Otherwise the body shape is almost identical. I think you are thinking of emerald shiners being thin minnows for walleye. Common and golden shiners are really commonly used pike baits across the US

I don't know much about freezing them, I just toss them in my bait tank in the garage and they stay alive for weeks if needed. I would imagine if you bring them inside they will die pretty quick. My bait tank is at 38-40 deg usually. Even a big cooler inside would work fine, just toss a shovelful of snow in every couple days.
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Offline maddogg

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #6 on: Jan 23, 2019, 06:26 PM »
The roach is the end of the joint which cannot be smoked without a roach clip.

Offline Coachkwj

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #7 on: Jan 23, 2019, 06:29 PM »
Every bait shop in northern Ill. and southern Wisc. sells golden roaches. They range from 3 to 6-7 inches. If you can even find shiners they are about 1-2 inches. Most shops sell fatheads. Google shiner minnows and golden roaches. You will see the bodies are very different. You are correct that there are golden shiner minnows that are mainly found in the East. These are probably the ones they use for bass in Florida and could even be golden roaches mistakenly called shiners. I have actually caught golden roaches while fishing. I recall reading another thread were someone said the same thing. Caught a huge Pike on one I caught that was close to 8 inches long. The perfect bait. Just need to find a way to preserve them after use. I can't seem to keep them more than a week in an aquarium in my garage. It's heated though.
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline Kevin23

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #8 on: Jan 23, 2019, 11:34 PM »
Every bait shop in northern Ill. and southern Wisc. sells golden roaches. They range from 3 to 6-7 inches. If you can even find shiners they are about 1-2 inches. Most shops sell fatheads. Google shiner minnows and golden roaches. You will see the bodies are very different. You are correct that there are golden shiner minnows that are mainly found in the East. These are probably the ones they use for bass in Florida and could even be golden roaches mistakenly called shiners. I have actually caught golden roaches while fishing. I recall reading another thread were someone said the same thing. Caught a huge Pike on one I caught that was close to 8 inches long. The perfect bait. Just need to find a way to preserve them after use. I can't seem to keep them more than a week in an aquarium in my garage. It's heated though.

What? I've never in my life seen roaches for sale in IL, IA, WI, or MN. Just shiners. I catch golden and common shiners here and they are native to almost every state. Roaches are only in europe. In fact Roaches are not even legal bait in Wisconsin so i'm not sure how you think every shop sells them. They are a non native species. You 100% have them confused with golden shiners which are commonly sold and are native to all of the midwest and are all over the USA. Every shop around here that sells shiners sells golden shiners, but there are usually a common shiners mixed in with them. They are not the 1"  minnows you think they are, those are emerald shiners and are a totally different family of fish. 

If you want to do some research,
Roach Rutilus rutilus (europe and asia)
Common shiner Luxilus cornutus (all of USA)
Golden Shiner Notemigonus crysoleucas (all of USA)

As for keeping your fish alive, you are probably killing them with an ammonia spike. If they are in water warmer than 35-40 they pee, a lot.. pee is ammonia, ammonia kills the fish. You can have 50 aerators going but the ammonia is still going to kill them. You need a cycled bait tank or to keep them near freezing.
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Offline Kevin23

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #9 on: Jan 23, 2019, 11:38 PM »
You only need to read the first part really. But here is what the USFW says about roaches. https://www.fws.gov/injuriouswildlife/pdf_files/Rutilus_rutilus_WEB_9-18-2012.pdf
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Offline Coachkwj

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #10 on: Jan 24, 2019, 06:11 PM »
https://www.trianglesports.biz/services.html
http://www.fishtechmg.com/
http://parkbaitshop.com/
3 baitshops local to me.
Check bait menus.
All sell roaches. None sell shiners.
As I said, in northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin they are called roaches, thats all.
Not trying to pick a fight.
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline Coachkwj

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #11 on: Jan 24, 2019, 07:01 PM »
Looks like you are looking at actual roaches, not golden roach minnows, which are a sought after sportfish in Europe.
Having become an avid carp angler I have seen alot of gear tailored towards roaches sold in European tackle shops.
Google roach fishing. Pretty popular across the pond.
https://www.anglingtimes.co.uk/advice/species/british-freshwater-fish/articles/Roach.
Plenty of videos also.
Whatever anyone chooses to call them, and it could be a local thing, golden roaches or shiners catch pike. Bass too!
Sounds like I need to keep them colder.
Never had any issues with my tropical fish but have tried keeping bluegill, perch, even tiny pike. Non of the non tropical fish last too long.
Thanks for the info. I'll try putting ice in the water regularly and see what happens.
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline Kevin23

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #12 on: Jan 24, 2019, 07:24 PM »
You know what it is.. your shops are relabeling golden shiners as "golden roaches". There is no such fish as a golden roach. That's where the confusion is coming in.
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Offline Snitch#8

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #13 on: Jan 27, 2021, 12:09 PM »
What is the best way to keep and sore left over roaches and suckers for using as dead bait. Hate to take then home and watch them slowly die, even in fish tank with air pump.
I usually use a pipe, so I don't have left over roaches!

Offline Rebelss

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #14 on: Jan 28, 2021, 10:14 AM »
I usually use a pipe, so I don't have left over roaches!

And here I thought "Golden Roaches" was a new Cheech and Chong movie!  :woot:

                                    


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Offline Rebelss

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #15 on: Jan 28, 2021, 10:33 AM »
I always thought golden roach was just another name for a golden shiner.....like with many fish.  ::)

 
Golden Shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas)


The golden shiner is a prominent and widespread minnow of the Cyprinidae family. These fish are important forage species for predators and are widely used in various sizes as bait by anglers.

Identification
The golden shiner has a deep, compressed body that is generally golden yellow or brass colored in turbid water, varying to more silvery in clear water. The fins are yellow green but become reddish in large spawning adults. The mouth is small and upturned with a slightly pointed snout, and there is a distinctive fleshy, scaleless keel along the belly from the pelvic to the anal fin.

The dusky lateral line of the golden shiner noticeably dips down in the middle of the body, and the caudal fin is moderately forked. The color of the fins is more pronounced during breeding season; the breeding male develops fine tubercles on the dorsal surface of the head and the body. The golden shiner has 7 to 9 dorsal rays and 8 to 19 anal rays.

   

Size/Age
Golden shiners can grow to 10.5 to 12 inches in length, although the average size varies with the environment. Many northerly waters are likely to produce smaller fish on average, and 3 to 5 inches is the norm in many places. These fish reportedly live for up to 10 years.

Spawning behavior
Golden shiners reach sexual maturity in their second year when they are usually 2.5 to 3.5 inches long, and spawn over an extended period, commencing in the spring when water temperatures exceed 68°F. They do not prepare nests, as many other shiners and minnows do; rather, they scatter adhesive eggs over algae and other aquatic vegetation and do not exhibit parental care.

Food
The food of golden shiners consists of plankton, algae, insects, and small fish; they feed in midwater and at or near the surface.

Other Names
roach, golden roach, shad roach, shiner, pond shiner.

Distribution
This species is widely distributed east of the Rockies in the central and eastern United States, ranging from Quebec to Saskatchewan in the north, and to Florida, Texas, and Mexico in the south. It has been introduced elsewhere, including Arizona, California, and Washington.

Habitat
Slow-water fish, golden shiners are prevalent in lakes, ponds, backwaters, and the slower parts of streams and small to medium rivers. They are common in weedy, clean, quiet, and shallow waters.

                                    


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Offline PikeKing23

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Re: Left over roaches and suckers
« Reply #16 on: Jan 28, 2021, 10:48 AM »
I always thought golden roach was just another name for a golden shiner.....like with many fish.  ::)

 
Golden Shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas)


The golden shiner is a prominent and widespread minnow of the Cyprinidae family. These fish are important forage species for predators and are widely used in various sizes as bait by anglers.

Identification
The golden shiner has a deep, compressed body that is generally golden yellow or brass colored in turbid water, varying to more silvery in clear water. The fins are yellow green but become reddish in large spawning adults. The mouth is small and upturned with a slightly pointed snout, and there is a distinctive fleshy, scaleless keel along the belly from the pelvic to the anal fin.

The dusky lateral line of the golden shiner noticeably dips down in the middle of the body, and the caudal fin is moderately forked. The color of the fins is more pronounced during breeding season; the breeding male develops fine tubercles on the dorsal surface of the head and the body. The golden shiner has 7 to 9 dorsal rays and 8 to 19 anal rays.

   

Size/Age
Golden shiners can grow to 10.5 to 12 inches in length, although the average size varies with the environment. Many northerly waters are likely to produce smaller fish on average, and 3 to 5 inches is the norm in many places. These fish reportedly live for up to 10 years.

Spawning behavior
Golden shiners reach sexual maturity in their second year when they are usually 2.5 to 3.5 inches long, and spawn over an extended period, commencing in the spring when water temperatures exceed 68°F. They do not prepare nests, as many other shiners and minnows do; rather, they scatter adhesive eggs over algae and other aquatic vegetation and do not exhibit parental care.

Food
The food of golden shiners consists of plankton, algae, insects, and small fish; they feed in midwater and at or near the surface.

Other Names
roach, golden roach, shad roach, shiner, pond shiner.

Distribution
This species is widely distributed east of the Rockies in the central and eastern United States, ranging from Quebec to Saskatchewan in the north, and to Florida, Texas, and Mexico in the south. It has been introduced elsewhere, including Arizona, California, and Washington.

Habitat
Slow-water fish, golden shiners are prevalent in lakes, ponds, backwaters, and the slower parts of streams and small to medium rivers. They are common in weedy, clean, quiet, and shallow waters.

This.  Only bait species that I know of that has the lateral line dip down.  Easiest way to identify, no matter the size, or color.  Pike crack!

 



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