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Author Topic: to release or not to release  (Read 3601 times)

Offline Van Noord

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #30 on: Feb 23, 2018, 11:09 AM »
I fish for walleye mostly, but catch just as many other species in the process.

I don't keep any walleye despite catching relatively high numbers of them. Mostly in the 15"-28" range.

I fish because I actually like and respect the fish. I enjoy the challenge and reward of success. I love catching them, holding them and looking at them.

I don't simply fish for dinner. They taste...just ok to me. Nothing special IMHO.
Honestly, last thing I want to do after a day on the ice is fillet fish. I'd sooner grab a nice burger...


Offline MNinMT

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #31 on: Feb 23, 2018, 11:10 AM »
My personal rule is any walleye over 22 goes back. Its taste for me that affects the decision and then I consider breeding. I personally like to see big girls go back in the water for the most part. Thats my opinion. I do cringe a bit when I see a hog being held up thats frozen stiff. However, Mille Lacs Lake in Minnesota is potentially evidence of a slot limit conundrum. The lake has a dominant year class of Large walleyes. It has been argued by several anglers and some DNR officers, albeit quietly, that these walleyes are literally stripping the lake of its baitfish and young walleye fry. The big fish are protected by law and it has been argued that they need to be thinned to promote younger fish survival rates. Mille lacs is considered one of the natural fisheries that has a high survival rate of spawn like Red, Vermillion, Leech, and a couple other lakes. Just google Mille lacs and you can read article after article about 1 fish limits, no walleye fishing allowed, and how anglers cant keep 24+ walleyes off their lines. No walleyes in the lake except for big ones. Tricky problem to have isnt it?

Take what you will eat and eat what you take.

 

Offline PerchPounderMT

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #32 on: Feb 23, 2018, 11:31 AM »
There have been study's that show when an eye gets to an age that it produces less fry than it consumes,but what do they know. ;D
Dont ask

Offline missoulafish

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #33 on: Feb 23, 2018, 11:58 AM »
Uh huh....

Offline zwiggles

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #34 on: Feb 23, 2018, 01:02 PM »
There have been study's that show when an eye gets to an age that it produces less fry than it consumes,but what do they know. ;D

Do you have links to back that up?

I can find ones which indicate a 24 fish will lay 130k eggs. http://www.perraultfallsarea.ca/did-you-know.html

And roughly 1300 fry. So a 24 walleye is eating ~4 walleye fry each and every day?

Offline Figure ate

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #35 on: Feb 23, 2018, 01:06 PM »
Theres plenty of info available on the studys done,as high as 20% in some cases.

In other words you made the figure up on the fly to suit your argument.

Offline Gone_fishing

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #36 on: Feb 23, 2018, 01:59 PM »
In other words you made the figure up on the fly to suit your argument.

A quick google search will give you plenty of studies and articles to sift through on the topic. I mostly catch and release (unless they're perch they taste too good haha) but I think a lot of anglers are blissfully ignorant of the fact that some fish you release will die. Mortality rates can be largely affected numerous conditions, such as handling techniques, tackle, whether you "played the fish out" bringing him in...etc. Properly handled fish have very high survival rates. I think if people who complain about someone keeping a big fish truly cared about releasing big fish and it having the best possible odds at survival they wouldn't be pulling them out of the water for their photo prior to releasing. Enough of my soap box I'm ready to get back to fishing!

Offline MatCat

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #37 on: Feb 23, 2018, 02:47 PM »
There are lots of strong feelings on this topic for both sides.  I never claimed to be a catch and release fisherman, I am however a proponent of selective harvest.  I'll never begrudge someone who catches a trophy and wants to mount it, but I see these pictures or even when I'm out fishing piles of frozen fish laying on the ice, not just one or two, but thirty or forty, and they have several 8,9,10 pounders in there.  I fish around here and some days catch few, other days pound the fish, but the average is like 14", then I go not 100 miles north to Canada, and not just one particular lake, but 7-8 different lakes and catch 60-100 and my average size is 22".  These are not catch an release lakes either, just reasonable management.  Any of our lakes could be like that, but it's a management thing.  Our regulations are set up with a generous possession limit and no size limit, it's not a coincidence that our fishing is poorer.  I know a lot of people see a limit as a daily goal and we never stop to think about whether we "can" keep that many, but "should" we keep that many.  It starts with the angler, us, if we are satisfied with how the fishing is, then no problem, but I know what it could be and therefore am not.  On another note, there is tons of studies and information out there on c&r mortality and egg viability in older bigger fish, to summarize everything I've read on the subject:
10% mortality for catch and release of trout is about standard, as far as warm water fish are concerned there is less than 2% when caught and released in general, which includes cutting line on deep embedded hooks, and up to 10% mortality when water is over 70 degrees, or if you dig the hook out of a gut hooked fish.  They are just hardier species.
Older fish will produce more viable eggs than a younger fish, just due to sheer number of eggs, yes, the percentage is lower, but a 30" fish will have twice the eggs as a 20" fish, and even 10-12 pound walleyes will hatch over 80% of there eggs in good conditions.  Not making any numbers up here.  I love fishing, love eating fish, love everything about fish, just wish there was a little more common sense out there, our fisheries could be amazing instead of just mediocre.

Offline PerchPounderMT

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #38 on: Feb 23, 2018, 04:08 PM »
Figure 8,learn how to use google or stop trolling for an argument,your choice.  ::)
Mat
"Our regulations are set up with a generous possession limit and no size limit"
There are size limits on the waters I fish and there are plenty of published studys that show much higher mortality rates.
Dont ask

Offline MatCat

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #39 on: Feb 23, 2018, 04:44 PM »
Figure 8,learn how to use google or stop trolling for an argument,your choice.  ::)
Mat
"Our regulations are set up with a generous possession limit and no size limit"
There are size limits on the waters I fish and there are plenty of published studys that show much higher mortality rates.
Only four waters in the state have a size limit, Canyon ferry, hauser, holter, and lake Helena,  which are all a moot point because you can keep even more fish out of each one of those.  I am well aware of our regulations, I was just stating that there is sufficient evidence that we could have better, more productive fisheries if we took a cue from our friends just across the border.  Not trying to troll or start a fight, just looking for better fishing for everyone now and in the future.

Offline hoofer

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #40 on: Feb 23, 2018, 05:48 PM »
if your going to mount the large fish you catch go for it! they do not come around that that much.as for eating i rather keep smaller fish.the real big fish (walleyes , northern pike etc) get those little black veins in the meat that just do not look good. i have let some big walleye and northern go in hopes another fisher person has the same joy in catching them as i did. the mortality rate of released fish depends on what you are using ,bait higher lures lower.nothing to back up the last statement but common sense.bait swallow,lures lip.
fish till it hurts then fish some more

Offline chartreusealltheway

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #41 on: Feb 23, 2018, 11:21 PM »
haaa  haaaaa haa.  this is unbelievable.  the origin of fishing is to eat fish. end of story. people that have turned it into a sport of catch and release are the worst criminals to the planet earth in my opinion. If you catch a monster, so be it.  on a side note... I have to laugh when people are talking about mechanisms that drop fish back down to the bottom of the lake before there bladder burst.  haa haaa haaaaa. you guys are rediculous and don't understand what it is to clean a fish no matter how small it is. DEAL WITH IT.  if you catch a small fish than you spend more time cleaning and enjoying the fresh flesh. if by chance you land the big one...clean it, eat it and you don't have to fish for a few more months. common guys. get with it.

Offline missoulafish

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #42 on: Feb 23, 2018, 11:41 PM »
Speaking of trolls I think we have a winner  here in chartreuse....move along Cheif.

Offline mtcommonwalleyeguy

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #43 on: Feb 24, 2018, 12:18 AM »
Speaking of trolls I think we have a winner  here in chartreuse....move along Cheif.

+1

Offline deadstick81

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #44 on: Feb 24, 2018, 01:04 AM »
I like to eat fish. we only get ice for x amounts of months in the state .  Ive dropped the bomb on back to back 20# pike spearing  if anyone  says they wouldnt  reality check u would

Offline Van Noord

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #45 on: Feb 24, 2018, 07:14 AM »
haaa  haaaaa haa.  this is unbelievable.  the origin of fishing is to eat fish. end of story. people that have turned it into a sport of catch and release are the worst criminals to the planet earth in my opinion. If you catch a monster, so be it.  on a side note... I have to laugh when people are talking about mechanisms that drop fish back down to the bottom of the lake before there bladder burst.  haa haaa haaaaa. you guys are rediculous and don't understand what it is to clean a fish no matter how small it is. DEAL WITH IT.  if you catch a small fish than you spend more time cleaning and enjoying the fresh flesh. if by chance you land the big one...clean it, eat it and you don't have to fish for a few more months. common guys. get with it.
Don't be such an antagonistic gluttonous buffoon.

Offline chartreusealltheway

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #46 on: Feb 24, 2018, 09:50 AM »
I don't believe I'm glutenous, if going fishing a couple times a year and catching only 3 or 4 for a meal or two is then I'm no longer fishing along side people that take pride in there catch.  releasing a fish at the expense that it may die is ridiculous when it could feed you and sustain you till you go out next time, its better then a store bought fish which gill nets kill more than I care to know.  I value the life of the fish that feeds my family and the skin and bones that go into my garden to bring up fresh produce.  living off the land is incredible to me.  that being said, if the law says release a fish, then I do, and if the law says you can catch 50 i don't, I only catch what I can handle and store and eat . I'm astonished that my views aren't shared more, as these where the ways not to long ago.  confession though.  I've released a 15lb 34.5 inch walleye back into canyon ferry.  only fought for 5 seconds, caught in 4 ft of water below the boat and netted instantly.  neither of us could physically fish anymore after seeing such a monster so we laughed and went home. Its hard not knowing what happened to that fish, I hope it paid off though.

Offline fridayfish

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #47 on: Feb 24, 2018, 02:33 PM »
its not trolling to share your opinion on a controversial topic. posting one in the first place is more of an act of trolling. chartreuse makes some good points.

Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #48 on: Feb 24, 2018, 02:45 PM »
I think maybe he just got back from his overseas diplomatic posting! ;D
Keep yer stick on the ice!

Offline hoofer

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #49 on: Feb 24, 2018, 03:00 PM »
chartreuse , not to long ago we had more and bigger fish and less fisher persons.
fish till it hurts then fish some more

Online Snitch#8

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #50 on: Feb 24, 2018, 04:59 PM »
Why would anyone try and get a consensus when dealing with both conservatives and liberals?  Our Government is a good example of what I'm saying!  Applying catch and release standards is no more right or wrong, then those who choose to keep legally caught game.  "Anyone" who thinks what "they do" is the only right thing to do, is sorely WRONG!  That folks is the reason why the law leaves it up to us, within its parameters.

Offline SpitzoMT

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #51 on: Feb 24, 2018, 10:35 PM »
people that have turned it into a sport of catch and release are the worst criminals to the planet earth in my opinion.

Wow.....Inane comment of the season right there.....I don't eat fish, family doesn't eat fish & friends don't eat fish.....Sooooo.....I guess I'll cease my catch n' release "criminal to planet earth" ways & refrain from fishing altogether.....NOT !!
        

Offline missoulafish

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #52 on: Feb 25, 2018, 10:39 AM »
And then he praised him self for what he was criticizing everyone for.... :cookoo: :cookoo:

Offline MNinMT

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #53 on: Feb 25, 2018, 10:43 AM »
Wow.....Inane comment of the season right there.....I don't eat fish, family doesn't eat fish & friends don't eat fish.....Sooooo.....I guess I'll cease my catch n' release "criminal to planet earth" ways & refrain from fishing altogether.....NOT !!

+1.

What's wrong with catch and release exactly?

Because that's what they do on tv? Or because the fish may die?

I caught a tagged fish once that had been caught 8 times in a 6 year span. Mortality after release definitely depends on several factors. Use best judgment. Keep what you want to eat and don't waste. Nothing wrong with that and there's certainly nothing wrong with catch and release fishing. Not a criminal act anyway...

Offline chartreusealltheway

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #54 on: Feb 25, 2018, 12:26 PM »
I must admit I was a little dramatic there, but catch and keepers get hammered all the time so I thought I'd punch back.  I used to catch and release quite often, especially the summer fly season. But I've read allot of articles and have changed my mind.  The number of catch and releasers is on the rise and catch and keepers are fighting for the right to keep fish.  If I catch and keep 1 trout it's better than catch and releasing 30, from the trouts perspective of course and mortality data on summer fishing rivers. This in my mind must be similar when releasing iced fish, frozen gills, holes in the lip, busted bladders, etc.

Offline Icephishwyo

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #55 on: Feb 25, 2018, 12:33 PM »
Walleye grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change
The courage to change the things I can
And wisdom to know the difference  ;D

Offline coldcreekchris

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #56 on: Feb 26, 2018, 01:45 AM »
Take only what you need....I fish more for substenance..than sport...but am selective and keep a fraction what I catch.....when I see....one guy posing with 20 lbs of filets...I wonder a bit...hopefully all is shared and consumed....we can all have our opinions on catch and release....but the real issue is whether their is respect and gratitude for the creature taken...some are conscious others blind....and that is up to one's perception..and that's another story...the sin...is when fish/meat is wasted...and if you are releasing..and u are doing it in a conscious matter...it's one thing..and if you are eating and being selective...and consciously releasing...it's one thing...never understood trophy...why have a mount of the biggest thing killed?..a lion..giraffe...elepha nt...Kodiak or 25 lb pike or 6 lb smallie...I get that many on this site desire to have these trophies on their walls..or in their photos...but others are not that way...I personally would rather have those monster bulls in the woods..and those huge old fish in the waters....many of us here are expert hunters..we can take at will... But we choose to be selective...or not at all....to take just cause you can....?..sigh...

Offline Born Late

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #57 on: Feb 26, 2018, 09:11 AM »
One of the interesting and recurring thoughts in this thread is the apparent belief by some that if something is legal, its therefore ethical. There are plenty of examples in (or missing from) MT regs that allow for legal practices I (and maybe you) dont consider ethical.


YOU are the only one who can decide if the ice is safe enough for you.

Online Snitch#8

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #58 on: Feb 26, 2018, 09:35 AM »
I just got hooked!  Can I ask what some of those things are?  Do they entail, using bait?  Size limits?  Killing deer with spots?  Ethics is one of those topics that I put into the category with Leopard spots and finger prints, EVERYONE's are different!  I guess the reason why I ask is this;  Some people find it appalling to kill a fawn with spots, but have NOOOO problem at all with going to the store and buying veal, a baby calf!  Some folks would find it disgusting if a hunter used a live rabbit to hunt for coyotes, but has NOOOOO problem at all hooking a live bluegill through the back and putting it on a tip-up, to catch a pike!  Some people find it inhumane to chain a dog up, out in the yard,  but have no problem at all putting their cat in a tiny travel cage!  Ethics is like manners, etiquette, and common sense, "EVERYONES" are different and we can't impose "OURs" on others.  That is the reason why we have laws, or "parameters", to help guide us.

Offline missoulafish

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Re: to release or not to release
« Reply #59 on: Feb 26, 2018, 09:41 AM »
Agree 100% Dave.

Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.

― Aldo Leopold

 



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