Author Topic: Braid advice for pike?  (Read 1649 times)

Offline HWeber

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #60 on: Feb 17, 2018, 09:05 PM »
I experimented with braid for the first time this season. I caught a few toothy fish on those rigs too. One of them cut the leader coming out of the hole another while being handled to remove the hook. The third one, I was just lucky. Braid does not decrease the chance of a toothy fish cutting your leader vs mono. It's just a crap shoot if it's cut or not. Wire works fine, it's hard to cut, it doesn't swim a shiner that well either. That's why we experimented with braid leaders. It's about trying to swim that bait more naturally. Believe it or not there is a product out there that solves these two problems, only it's not for sale in the US. Google Spinwal fishing tackle or goto spinwal.pl   . These leaders a few of which were given to me are made of a very fine hollow braided tungsten(wolfram) metal fiber. They will allow that bait fish to swim just like braid does but will not be cut by that toothy game fish. This stuff is amazing. If it gets kinked, heat with a lighter and the kink straightens out, unbelievable stuff. The tackle  might me available out of England. There should be a British fishing tackle web page in the Google search results that people in the US can order from. :thumbsup: :tipup: :thum

Thanks for something constructive. I'll have to check it out

Offline tentwiststhick

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #61 on: Feb 17, 2018, 09:37 PM »
I just checked it out. There are some compatible products available through the British Ebay site. They aren't Spinwal but they are designed for the same application and made of the same stuff. They should work just as well. ;) :tipup: ;)
ttt

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #62 on: Feb 18, 2018, 02:10 AM »
Sounds interesting.Ill have check out.

Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #63 on: Feb 18, 2018, 05:37 AM »
More clarity on misinformation:

Most monofilaments (monos) ARE copolymers, very few monofilaments (very, very few) are NOT copolymers, "co-polymer" is not magic. MONOfilament means "single strand or "filament". COpolymer means multiple plastic polymers blended to achieve a specific result. Here's how it works:

Most, if not all plastic line is a blend of polymers. Think of polymers like this: one hard, tough, abrasion resistant yet brittle like spaghetti. Another soft, supple, stretchy, resistant to tensile breakage more like a rubber band. Say we put equal parts in a pot and melt 'em together to see what we get. That's a "co-polymer", two (or more) polymers are blended together to achieve a specific result. Monofilament means just a single thread/line/whatever rather than a multi-filament, spun or braided end product.

When speaking about "plastic" lines/leaders, monofilament and copolymer are most likely the same thing. Fluorocarbon is the same only different if that makes sense. Still a monofilament (single strand) plastic, but different formula and manufacturing procedure. Plastic nonetheless...

Braid/superline is still plastic. Most lines use a gel spun (think cotton candy machine) polyethylene (like milk jugs) and is drawn and woven (braid) or fused together to make line. Very thin for pound test, very "soft" and very tough (in certain ways) but can be cut more easily than even the cheapest mono line. Serious. Take a single edge razor blade (simulates pike/pickerel/musky teeth) and try it on different lines. Make sure you put the lines under pressure (like you have a fish on the other end) to test. See what you think...

IF I had to do plastic for toothies, I'd choose fluoro. The thicker the better but there's tradeoffs for the  non-toothy species. Leader is too heavy, not flexible enough or if it is thin enough there's not enough protection against sharp teeth. That's why, in end, I choose very (very) thin wire. Cut (but not idiot) proof, low visibility, very flexible, cheap and easy to work with. Most folks' brains don't let 'em go there because they think they're smarter than that. Trouble is they out think themselves...

I know, I'm howlin' at the moon. No matter. I can't help myself. Even if only one person is enlightened...

This could be 4 cents worth if you get it.  ;)2

I'll finish with a nod to PikeKing23:

If your primary target is pike or other toothies: read and heed. If your peripheral target is pike, tackle accordingly and be OK when you get nicked off.

My crossovers are even thinner: 18# multistrand uncoated steel.

Not sure what misinformation was in my post about P-Line copolymer never claimed it was “Magic” Just stated what i used and recommended it to someone that uses mono as a better alternative.. But hey thanks for the chemistry lesson , I think 🤓..

Ive seen this debate go down on this site for close to 20 years ! Circle hooks,trebs, steel leaders, mono, fluoro hell Im surprised no one has tried bailing twine or bailing hooks 😂

All i can say is in all the years ive been using “plastic”  ive never been bit or broke off..
I know, I know, Im the luckiest SOB out there !


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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #64 on: Feb 18, 2018, 08:05 AM »
Not necessarily directed at you dsh. Lots of folks confuse "co-polymer" with "monofilament" and it makes me smile because they use the terms without really understanding what they're saying. Seems like most of the time "co-polymer" enters a conversation the intimation is that it is somehow special or different from monofilament when it really is not (again, not you specifically).

My best fishing buddy and I still joust over plastic vs. steel. We've been at it for decades. I think it's half the fun. Even in very clear water I'm not convinced that leader awareness is a big factor for pike (specifically). I could expound on this for a while as the why I believe that but that's a whole 'nother deal.

I get to spend a few days up on Little Bay de Noc this coming weekend, primarily for walleye but there's pike to had as well. Fluoro is recommended for 'eyes but I'll be testing thin wire next to the rest of the guys just because I can. My buddy says when I catch fish like that they're all the stupid ones and it's good I remove them from the gene pool.  ::)
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Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #65 on: Feb 18, 2018, 11:58 AM »
Not necessarily directed at you dsh. Lots of folks confuse "co-polymer" with "monofilament" and it makes me smile because they use the terms without really understanding what they're saying. Seems like most of the time "co-polymer" enters a conversation the intimation is that it is somehow special or different from monofilament when it really is not (again, not you specifically).

My best fishing buddy and I still joust over plastic vs. steel. We've been at it for decades. I think it's half the fun. Even in very clear water I'm not convinced that leader awareness is a big factor for pike (specifically). I could expound on this for a while as the why I believe that but that's a whole 'nother deal.

I get to spend a few days up on Little Bay de Noc this coming weekend, primarily for walleye but there's pike to had as well. Fluoro is recommended for 'eyes but I'll be testing thin wire next to the rest of the guys just because I can. My buddy says when I catch fish like that they're all the stupid ones and it's good I remove them from the gene pool.  ::)

All good 🙂 let us know if you see a significant difference 🙂
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Offline wirenut45

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #66 on: Feb 19, 2018, 03:14 PM »
Not necessarily directed at you dsh. Lots of folks confuse "co-polymer" with "monofilament" and it makes me smile because they use the terms without really understanding what they're saying. Seems like most of the time "co-polymer" enters a conversation the intimation is that it is somehow special or different from monofilament when it really is not (again, not you specifically).

My best fishing buddy and I still joust over plastic vs. steel. We've been at it for decades. I think it's half the fun. Even in very clear water I'm not convinced that leader awareness is a big factor for pike (specifically). I could expound on this for a while as the why I believe that but that's a whole 'nother deal.

I get to spend a few days up on Little Bay de Noc this coming weekend, primarily for walleye but there's pike to had as well. Fluoro is recommended for 'eyes but I'll be testing thin wire next to the rest of the guys just because I can. My buddy says when I catch fish like that they're all the stupid ones and it's good I remove them from the gene pool.  ::) hey esox, can i use that logic to keep some fish ,n, not catch he77 from the c,n, r guys ? lol wire

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #67 on: Feb 19, 2018, 09:09 PM »
Can if ya want wirenut. I won't berate anyone as long as they're within the letter of the law, that's their (your) right. Don't be violatin' though, I take a dim view of that. Drove off the ice a few years back because the rest of the group was keeping slot fish based on if they didn't keep 'em a "less deserving group" (in their opinion) would harvest them anyway. Can't buy the rationale, I love to fish (all year) and need my fishing privileges. They had a 5 mile walk back to the cabin. And no, I was not included in subsequent trips with that group. Fine by me.

Don't get me wrong. I do a lot of musky fishing where c&r is expected and I fulfill that. Ate a few way back in the day. Can't tell anyone they don't taste great 'cause they do! If I've got one that won't swim away I'll collect it and make a few meals without feeling bad. Several years ago I had one that wouldn't swim after 2 hours of coddling. I had to leave it belly up because the minimum size on that lake was 45". Next day I overheard a couple of guys talking about the know-nothing, inconsiderate, wasteful, that killed a musky and left it float. If they only knew. Only happened to me once (that I am aware of). I've seen some goofy things on the water where muskies are concerned and think "well, that one will never make it", but I'm sure there are plenty of other guys that have been careful, responsible and saddened when despite their best efforts a fish doesn't make it.

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Offline missoulafish

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #68 on: Feb 20, 2018, 08:28 AM »
As a rule I believe 50% of what I see nothing of what I hear and 100% of what I've experienced.
Words to live by in this field.... no substitute for experience wether people like it or not...

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #69 on: Feb 22, 2018, 08:44 PM »
This afternoons score: Wire =2 flags , one fish (22.5"), fluoro = 0 flags.

Interesting.
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Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #70 on: Mar 05, 2018, 06:34 PM »
I had to bring this thread back to life cause its really a great thread, and well i went out Pike fishing and was thinking about this thread, lol, and decided id devote this days outing to Polymer Leaders and tail hooking bait... Wasnt the best day of fishing, 3 fish smallest was 28" biggest was 34 " average day for me...
I dont get into to much detail but you will get the jist of it...

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Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #71 on: Mar 11, 2018, 08:47 AM »
I had no breakoffs this season but then I didn't get any pike or musky lol.Lots of pickerel's pulled in.My buddy lost a nice pike at the hole during a tourney but he ties hook  right to tip up dacron line.Whatever works.

 



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