Author Topic: Braid advice for pike?  (Read 1887 times)

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #30 on: Feb 07, 2018, 07:11 AM »
Exactly circle hook wait till they stop just pull hooked in corner everytime..Everyone that thinks they know everything should try suffix 832.You might be surprised.Everyone use to think the world was flat.Some still do lol.End of conversation.

Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #31 on: Feb 07, 2018, 07:42 AM »
Circle hooks are fine for hammer handles lol.. Ran that experiment many years back they are worth a crap when targeting bigger fish, like i said before tail hook your bait its pretty much a guaranteed corner of the jaw hook set..
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Offline mealworm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #32 on: Feb 07, 2018, 09:35 AM »
Circle hooks are fine for hammer handles lol.. Ran that experiment many years back they are worth a crap when targeting bigger fish, like i said before tail hook your bait its pretty much a guaranteed corner of the jaw hook set..
I completely disagree we have landed several fish tigers and pike over 40" on octopus hooks with fire line and mono leaders. A lot of fishermen swear by using mono and a single hook for big toothy critters that are indeed line shy. Not saying u won't hook up with steel and treble hooks but proof is in the puddin. My hook up.and catch rate has at least doubled so c.f. switching to mono with octopus hooks. And I can use same leaders for walleye. I'm not saying what ur doing is wrong and not saying what I'm doing is right. Just another option that will work for pike and walleye with out making any gear changes

Offline Kevin23

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #33 on: Feb 07, 2018, 10:02 AM »
Exactly circle hook wait till they stop just pull hooked in corner everytime..Everyone that thinks they know everything should try suffix 832.You might be surprised.Everyone use to think the world was flat.Some still do lol.End of conversation.

Why would I be surprised? I have pike bite off 65lb sufix 832 every year. Braid is the worst type of leader material out there, end of conversation. When is the last time you saw a professional fisherman (someone who fishes to feed their family) use braid for pike, bass, catfish, saltwater, or anything else? You won't, because its a terrible choice.

Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #34 on: Feb 07, 2018, 10:30 AM »
I completely disagree we have landed several fish tigers and pike over 40" on octopus hooks with fire line and mono leaders. A lot of fishermen swear by using mono and a single hook for big toothy critters that are indeed line shy. Not saying u won't hook up with steel and treble hooks but proof is in the puddin. My hook up.and catch rate has at least doubled so c.f. switching to mono with octopus hooks. And I can use same leaders for walleye. I'm not saying what ur doing is wrong and not saying what I'm doing is right. Just another option that will work for pike and walleye with out making any gear changes

Yah i dont use steel, just a single #4 treb, 30lb copolymer, you moght want to look into it if you like mono its kinda a hybrid line mono core fluoro coating, it offers the best of both worlds. As far as gear changes , just find it easier to have a set of traps strictly for pike and a set strictly for other fish..As far as circle hooks we will have to agree to disagree 😎 In the end what you have faith in is ussually what works i guess.
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Offline mealworm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #35 on: Feb 07, 2018, 10:53 AM »
Yah i dont use steel, just a single #4 treb, 30lb copolymer, you moght want to look into it if you like mono its kinda a hybrid line mono core fluoro coating, it offers the best of both worlds. As far as gear changes , just find it easier to have a set of traps strictly for pike and a set strictly for other fish..As far as circle hooks we will have to agree to disagree 😎 In the end what you have faith in is ussually what works i guess.
what  brand copolymer do u like. It be interested in trying it out. I'm  Always up for trying new things. Like when I tried octopus hooks.i do agree that having a set of tip ups for different fish species is the way to go if u can go that route.my self i have 3 sets of traps. Changing leaders or setting up to catch multiplespecies with 1 set up is the only option for some folks tho

Offline Kevin23

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #36 on: Feb 07, 2018, 11:10 AM »
Be advised that octopus hooks are not circle hooks. You still set the hook with octopus hooks. You can get octopus circle hooks though. Just pulling on a regular octopus hook will hook the fish wherever the point lands, as long as the mouth is closed, which fortunately usually is the corner or roof of the mouth. A true circle hook will hook a fish in the corner of the mouth whether his mouth is clamped shut or partially open, just by pulling on the line. I would not suggest circle hooks as you need to let the fish get a longer distance away before "setting it" so the angle is flatter, a circle hook will not work well with a vertical angle. So if the fish grabs the bait and sits under the hole, you will likely miss it with a circle hook. I fish with circle hooks quite a bit, and they are a fantastic concept and work very well... but not for all scenarios.

#4 trebles for me, have never had one swallow it and I can stick him as soon as he stops his initial run.  ;)

Offline PikeKing23

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #37 on: Feb 07, 2018, 07:51 PM »
Braid will break your heart.  I used 50lb flouro for some time until I broke one off.  I have since switched to AFW single strand 38lb tieable wire.  It's very thin and will not break (or cut).  Not my quote but I still use it.....STEEL IS REAL!

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #38 on: Feb 07, 2018, 08:37 PM »
More clarity on misinformation:

Most monofilaments (monos) ARE copolymers, very few monofilaments (very, very few) are NOT copolymers, "co-polymer" is not magic. MONOfilament means "single strand or "filament". COpolymer means multiple plastic polymers blended to achieve a specific result. Here's how it works:

Most, if not all plastic line is a blend of polymers. Think of polymers like this: one hard, tough, abrasion resistant yet brittle like spaghetti. Another soft, supple, stretchy, resistant to tensile breakage more like a rubber band. Say we put equal parts in a pot and melt 'em together to see what we get. That's a "co-polymer", two (or more) polymers are blended together to achieve a specific result. Monofilament means just a single thread/line/whatever rather than a multi-filament, spun or braided end product.

When speaking about "plastic" lines/leaders, monofilament and copolymer are most likely the same thing. Fluorocarbon is the same only different if that makes sense. Still a monofilament (single strand) plastic, but different formula and manufacturing procedure. Plastic nonetheless...

Braid/superline is still plastic. Most lines use a gel spun (think cotton candy machine) polyethylene (like milk jugs) and is drawn and woven (braid) or fused together to make line. Very thin for pound test, very "soft" and very tough (in certain ways) but can be cut more easily than even the cheapest mono line. Serious. Take a single edge razor blade (simulates pike/pickerel/musky teeth) and try it on different lines. Make sure you put the lines under pressure (like you have a fish on the other end) to test. See what you think...

IF I had to do plastic for toothies, I'd choose fluoro. The thicker the better but there's tradeoffs for the  non-toothy species. Leader is too heavy, not flexible enough or if it is thin enough there's not enough protection against sharp teeth. That's why, in end, I choose very (very) thin wire. Cut (but not idiot) proof, low visibility, very flexible, cheap and easy to work with. Most folks' brains don't let 'em go there because they think they're smarter than that. Trouble is they out think themselves...

I know, I'm howlin' at the moon. No matter. I can't help myself. Even if only one person is enlightened...

This could be 4 cents worth if you get it.  ;)2

I'll finish with a nod to PikeKing23:

Braid will break your heart.  I used 50lb flouro for some time until I broke one off.  I have since switched to AFW single strand 38lb tieable wire.  It's very thin and will not break (or cut).  Not my quote but I still use it.....STEEL IS REAL!

If your primary target is pike or other toothies: read and heed. If your peripheral target is pike, tackle accordingly and be OK when you get nicked off.

My crossovers are even thinner: 18# multistrand uncoated steel.
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Online HWeber

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #39 on: Feb 07, 2018, 10:30 PM »
I dont think people realize how thin uncoated steel is and that it actually isn't that bad to work with

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #40 on: Feb 08, 2018, 05:18 AM »
Everyone uses what's works for them.The question posted was Braid advice for pike.I gave my opinion based on my experience.Dave Genz is a professional fisherman and he does use braid.Not looking to argue I know lots of people that use floro and blah blah but for me braid works.No special tools needed like wire no line stretch when fishing in 40 ft of water like mono floro. I'm not saying everything else is wrong to use I just answered question posted which was advice on braid for pike.

Offline Goose97

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #41 on: Feb 08, 2018, 05:31 AM »
Well I seem to have started an argument.i now have very light wire leaders,and Iíll keep using my usual setup for walleye and see how the new leaders work.

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #42 on: Feb 08, 2018, 05:57 AM »
Well I seem to have started an argument.i now have very light wire leaders,and Iíll keep using my usual setup for walleye and see how the new leaders work.

Oh you didn't start this Goose. You only (re)opened the door to a debate that has raged for decades. There are nearly as many different views as there are people. In the end, if it works for you terrific! If you're looking to experiment there's lots of ideas here. Good luck to you!
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Online HWeber

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #43 on: Feb 08, 2018, 09:20 AM »
Everyone uses what's works for them.The question posted was Braid advice for pike.I gave my opinion based on my experience.Dave Genz is a professional fisherman and he does use braid.Not looking to argue I know lots of people that use floro and blah blah but for me braid works.No special tools needed like wire no line stretch when fishing in 40 ft of water like mono floro. I'm not saying everything else is wrong to use I just answered question posted which was advice on braid for pike.

Half of what you said is crap or mainly applies to using them as your main line. Anyways where is dave genz claiming to use braid as a leader for pike?

Offline Goose97

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #44 on: Feb 08, 2018, 08:50 PM »
Oh you didn't start this Goose. You only (re)opened the door to a debate that has raged for decades. There are nearly as many different views as there are people. In the end, if it works for you terrific! If you're looking to experiment there's lots of ideas here. Good luck to you! Thank you sir. I have had very good success up until this year with my current setups,and I have also landed quite a number of pike in the 30-40 inch range without any problem. This year however it has failed 3 times already haha

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #45 on: Feb 09, 2018, 07:05 AM »
Fortunately for me I don't give a crap what people say.Some people need to prove they're right even to themselves and try to make what works for  other people at least in their eyes wrong in what they do.Im an adult I can take it some people can't.

Online HWeber

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #46 on: Feb 09, 2018, 08:34 AM »
Just trying to stop mis-information. Pretty obvious genz doesnt recommend braid as a pike leader. If something works for you good for you but lieing about it is just stupid

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #47 on: Feb 09, 2018, 12:40 PM »
Never said he uses for pike leader.I do as well as many of my friends.You should read post totally.Someone said pro fisherman don't use braid he does for walleye might even be one of his sponsers.As a rule I believe 50% of what I see nothing of what I hear and 100% of what I've experienced.

Online HWeber

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #48 on: Feb 09, 2018, 08:10 PM »
Why would I be surprised? I have pike bite off 65lb sufix 832 every year. Braid is the worst type of leader material out there, end of conversation. When is the last time you saw a professional fisherman (someone who fishes to feed their family) use braid for pike, bass, catfish, saltwater, or anything else? You won't, because its a terrible choice.
[/quo

Context is key. Also the original post being about leaders for pike on tipups  :tipup:

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #49 on: Feb 10, 2018, 04:08 PM »
You know I guess your right I'm the only "pro" in world that uses it.Lots of pros use braid lots of info out there Genz has articles ,reviews of panfishing and walleye fishing using braid.Never said anyone had to agree with  me just my experience.Sorry hweber you got so offended that we have a different opinions.I,ve never been a follower.Context is the key.I happen to use braid for leaders you don't.

Online HWeber

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #50 on: Feb 10, 2018, 05:14 PM »
Because you continue to not get it. No one is saying pros don't use braid they're saying pros don't use braid as a leader

Offline Kevin23

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #51 on: Feb 10, 2018, 07:18 PM »
Because you continue to not get it. No one is saying pros don't use braid they're saying pros don't use braid as a leader

To add to this, I've seen genz use braid panfishing and tie directly to the lure. But he is using 1-3lb braid and is not targeting pike. Everyone (including genz) that have seen fish with braid for pike tie or walleye ties on a fluorocarbon leader.  ;)

The only time I have ever seen anyone use a braid leader is saltwater guys using a braid topshot, but that is a totally different situation.

My final remarks. Pike teeth nick braid and break it easier than any other type of line on the market. You would be better off using your tipup line than braided fishing line.

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #52 on: Feb 11, 2018, 07:22 PM »
This stuff never disappoints...

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Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #53 on: Feb 13, 2018, 06:07 PM »
Yup wind'em up and watch'em go

Offline Light liner

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #54 on: Feb 13, 2018, 07:56 PM »
How about braid as a leader on a jawjacker?
 >:D
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Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #55 on: Feb 14, 2018, 05:55 AM »
That's what mine has on it although its set up for perch.

Offline Seamonkey84

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #56 on: Feb 14, 2018, 08:11 AM »
Braid is main line material, I would never use it for leader. With tipup fishing, you wonít want to hand line in the super line braids as it will be so thin it would be a mess to deal with and cut you when the fish pulls. Some times itís fine to tie direct to braid if the fish arenít line shy, but ask how many lures bass fishermen have lost to pike or pickerel.

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #57 on: Feb 14, 2018, 08:58 AM »
Sometimes braid cuts right thru floro and mono at the knot.In fisherman mag has an interesting article about Pro  Bass finesse fisherman using just braid tied right to plastics and their jigs.

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #58 on: Feb 14, 2018, 09:09 AM »
The real question isn't about braid and when and where it should be used it's about circle hooks or treble hooks.

Offline tentwiststhick

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Re: Braid advice for pike?
« Reply #59 on: Feb 17, 2018, 08:56 PM »
I experimented with braid for the first time this season. I caught a few toothy fish on those rigs too. One of them cut the leader coming out of the hole another while being handled to remove the hook. The third one, I was just lucky. Braid does not decrease the chance of a toothy fish cutting your leader vs mono. It's just a crap shoot if it's cut or not. Wire works fine, it's hard to cut, it doesn't swim a shiner that well either. That's why we experimented with braid leaders. It's about trying to swim that bait more naturally. Believe it or not there is a product out there that solves these two problems, only it's not for sale in the US. Google Spinwal fishing tackle or goto spinwal.pl   . These leaders a few of which were given to me are made of a very fine hollow braided tungsten(wolfram) metal fiber. They will allow that bait fish to swim just like braid does but will not be cut by that toothy game fish. This stuff is amazing. If it gets kinked, heat with a lighter and the kink straightens out, unbelievable stuff. The tackle  might me available out of England. There should be a British fishing tackle web page in the Google search results that people in the US can order from. :thumbsup: :tipup: :thumbsup:
ttt

 



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