Author Topic: Single Treble Rig  (Read 2444 times)

Offline Redneck2323

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Single Treble Rig
« on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:00 PM »
Do any of you guys use single treble hook rigs for pike? I know about predator rigs just thought maybe less stress on the fish with one hook. If you do are they bought ones or homemade? I usually use between 4”-8” bait. Thanks in advance!!

Offline captain54

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #1 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:18 PM »
Redneck,used single treble for years, the last 20 plus years I used quick strike rig. I make my own size 8 in the front of bait size 6 in the dorsal of the bait. I use large bait crappie 8"-9" long,big suckers. The back treble can slide and adjust to any size bait. I also use a down rigger release attached to the frame on the tip up and then attached the release under the spool. This eliminates the bait setting off the tip up.Hope to  beat my PB 42.5".pike this winter. Hope this helps you. Very seldom do they swallowed the bait,usually in the corner of the mouth.

Offline ActiveTrapChecker

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #2 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:19 PM »
I only use a single treble and can’t say my success rate would improve with multiple. Heck, I would probably hook myself if I tried more than one!

 The only time I have seen someone use multiple trebles is with dead bait.

Offline Celtron

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #3 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:25 PM »
I have used circle hooks often with good success. I am catch and release so I like that a single hook is easier to remove without hurting the fish. I use a single hook on my Swedish pimples also. Generally I prefer shiners, but I pickup fatheads in case I stay out longer than expected and run low on bait. I have never tried a premade rig. Good luck and tight lines!

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #4 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:46 PM »
Single treble guy here except for larger live and all dead baits. Standard is a #10 (I know, seems small) but I use a wide gap 4x strong that has yet to bend outward on any fish (up to 45"). I go tandem 10s on big live bait and tandem 6s on deads and have covered deads up to 15" long with 100% hookup (admittedly pretty small sample on bait that size).

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Offline Redneck2323

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #5 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:03 PM »
Do you guys use floro or wire?

Offline ActiveTrapChecker

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #6 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:06 PM »
Do you guys use floro or wire?

I am floro guy myself

Offline Redneck2323

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #7 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:10 PM »

Offline ActiveTrapChecker

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #8 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:21 PM »
30#. Anything more and I have trouble tying it to a swivel and hook

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #9 on: Dec 13, 2017, 08:42 PM »
Light wire 13 - 20# uncoated, no crimps.
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Offline RyanW

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #10 on: Dec 14, 2017, 01:17 AM »
I use a #2 treble attached to a 6”-12” steel leader (black) tied to 30#-50# Mason spooled on an HT original polar. I like to use 6”+ live shiners and haven’t had any issues catching pike of all sizes. The treble is always in the corner of the mouth.
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Offline ActiveTrapChecker

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #11 on: Dec 14, 2017, 08:02 AM »
I use a #2 treble attached to a 6”-12” steel leader (black) tied to 30#-50# Mason spooled on an HT original polar. I like to use 6”+ live shiners and haven’t had any issues catching pike of all sizes. The treble is always in the corner of the mouth.

how do the shiners act with the treble in the corner of the mouth? I generally hook them in front of the dorsal fin

Offline pmaloney86

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #12 on: Dec 14, 2017, 08:19 AM »
30#. Anything more and I have trouble tying it to a swivel and hook

I'd suggest going to at least 50#.  It is more difficult to tie the knots but you can cinch them down with some spit and finger nails.  If you use anything less than 50# I'd suggest with just going with steel.
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Offline Redneck2323

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #13 on: Dec 14, 2017, 08:22 AM »
how do the shiners act with the treble in the corner of the mouth? I generally hook them in front of the dorsal fin

I am assuming the pike are hooked in the corner of the mouth. I could be wrong though.

Offline ActiveTrapChecker

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #14 on: Dec 14, 2017, 08:25 AM »
I am assuming the pike are hooked in the corner of the mouth. I could be wrong though.

Yeah, my apologies for originally mis-reading it. that's what happens when you try reading without adequate caffeine

Offline saxmatt

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #15 on: Dec 14, 2017, 10:15 AM »
If you are planning on releasing the pike I wouldn't use trebles, I've seen a lot of fish gut hooked. Trebles are hard to remove when they are swallowed and the newer hooks don't rust quickly like the older hooks do. The treble can block the fish from feeding or cause an infection.

Offline UFCreel

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #16 on: Dec 15, 2017, 07:31 AM »
To cut down on gut hooked fish. Simply put your hook behind the dorsal fin. In theory the Pike will strike the head of the bait you are using. So by hooking your bait farther back from its head. There is less chance of the hook ending up in the Pikes gut. But then i always try not to let the pike run for a long time before i set the hook.
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Offline mvanhank222

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #17 on: Dec 15, 2017, 07:45 AM »
Unless I think there is a really good chance for walleye I use #15 or #20 Flourocarbon and circle hooks. If you are pike fishing and not using circle hooks you are missing out

Offline Open-Handed Fish Slap

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #18 on: Dec 15, 2017, 07:59 AM »
Single hook, have used only circles for years but thinking about trying out some wide gap finesse, black coated wire leader.  Never had an issue with either.  Over the last couple seasons my regular group of ice fishing buddies and I have all kind of stuck to different kind of presentations which have led us to make very good comparisons.  We haven't really noticed any difference in pike hits with flouro or wire, sometimes flouro may get some attention from an aggressive bass or tapped by something else that the wire doesn't.  Wire has never snapped on a pike hookup, but they have lost some beauty's at the hole on 25# - 40# flouro.  No one in our group really uses trebles because we do all catch an release and they are just a pain in the rear to store your leaders and whatnot.  I have always had good luck with circles but they do take some patience and finesse.  All I can say for catch and release is that when I get the fish out of the hole with a circle it either takes minimal effort to get the hook out of the corner of the mouth or it even pops out on it's own when the fish hits the ice.  We've been experimenting with the wide gaps on the recommendation of a very knowledgeable/engaged group of pike fisherman around here and they are very easy to use.  That's what I'll be putting on for our young kids and any people coming out with us looking for their first pike, hookup rates seem very high.  I'm pretty stubborn and own a ton of circles so it might be tough for me to change all my personal stuff over.
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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #19 on: Dec 15, 2017, 07:20 PM »
My experience with pike and circles is mixed. Sometimes they work as advertised. Other times they get into places they don't belong and if you're using plastic leader it does not end well.

Small trebles, hit right away usually don't get inhaled and when they do can be easily and safely remove with minor damage to the fish. Done it plenty of times with tiny walleyes and pike. Lessee...

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Offline RyanW

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #20 on: Dec 15, 2017, 09:30 PM »
how do the shiners act with the treble in the corner of the mouth? I generally hook them in front of the dorsal fin

Ha! Yeah, I meant the corner of the pikes mouth. Sorry about that. I have a tendency to not be the clearest information giver. I usually hook the shiner in the middle of the dorsal fin. Sometimes I’ll switch it up and go in front or behind the dorsal. Usually depends on how well the shiner is cooperating.
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Offline jedhead

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #21 on: Dec 19, 2017, 11:10 PM »
What manufacturer and size circle hooks you guys using with larger baits in the 6 to 10 inch range?

Offline Martian

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #22 on: Dec 21, 2017, 08:53 AM »
 I use wire, crimps, and make all my own i also use circle hooks we fish a lake where we catch a lot of shorts, and sometimes , when getting them iced, blood is running out of both gils, we release them, but they are turtle food, the circles just seem to get caught in the corner of the mouth. You do not set the hook though, we just wait for a good run and stop it. If it is a good fish , it is unhooked easily, if it is short, we didn't kill it good luck

Offline Open-Handed Fish Slap

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #23 on: Dec 21, 2017, 06:01 PM »
What manufacturer and size circle hooks you guys using with larger baits in the 6 to 10 inch range?

Bait at the lower to middle of that range probably a 3/0, bait 9 or 10+ may warrant a 5/0
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Offline stinkyfingers

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #24 on: Dec 21, 2017, 07:49 PM »
What manufacturer and size circle hooks you guys using with larger baits in the 6 to 10 inch range?
I've used Owner hooks for several years. Their Mutu circle is strong and incredibly sharp.
Trokar hooks, with their unique point, also scary sharp, are good against a pike's tough mouth. Both are spendy but worth it.
  These days I'm using #6 Owner trebles for dead bait.
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Offline Water Wolf

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #25 on: Dec 28, 2017, 09:42 PM »
I sometimes use a single treble if the bait is not too large. 2-4 inch baits are used with a single treble.  5" or bigger and I use a 2 hook rig. :)

When using the single treble hook I usually hook the bait in the middle so it sits horizontally in the water.
I attach them my homemade leaders, which are usually 50 lb Berkley fluorocarbon leader material and a snap.
I have been having good luck with mustad triple grip hooks in #4.

I have recently purchased dressed treble hooks with red feathers so will see if they make a difference or not this winter. :unsure:

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Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #26 on: Jan 07, 2018, 07:07 PM »
Size 4 or 6 gamagatsu trebs, circle hooks are worthless for pike, been there, done the experiment, and came to the conclusion its a complete waste of time, you will miss fish left and right, im sure someone will say no thats not true cause they caught 2 fish one day on them , but im telling you abandon single hooks you will thank me at some point.. Tail hook your bait , set the hook on the run and use 30# fluoro.. your hook up ratios will magnify overnight..
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Offline Papa Sly

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #27 on: Jan 23, 2018, 10:46 PM »
I'd suggest going to at least 50#.  It is more difficult to tie the knots but you can cinch them down with some spit and finger nails.  If you use anything less than 50# I'd suggest with just going with steel.
I agree, also I only crimp. Once you learn to crimp you will never tie again. When I try wire I use knot to kinky but my hit rate with 50# flouro is 5 to 1 so I usually just use the flouro. Tried 30# last year in New York and had no bite offs and years ago my PB pike was on 8lb mono so who knows. Pike are very line shy in minter so I would rather get more hits than use wire and sit all day for 1 or 2 hits.
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Offline Iceassin

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #28 on: Oct 26, 2018, 08:12 AM »
Single treble guy here except for larger live and all dead baits. Standard is a #10 (I know, seems small) but I use a wide gap 4x strong that has yet to bend outward on any fish (up to 45"). I go tandem 10s on big live bait and tandem 6s on deads and have covered deads up to 15" long with 100% hookup (admittedly pretty small sample on bait that size).

Never got anything OTC except components and always rolled my own. Done it this way since the 80's. No need to fix what ain't broke.

Ok esox, ye of pike lore, gonna bend your ear a bit:

1) So, you say you typically run a #10 wide gap treble on a 13-20# uncoated wire leader when targeting pike and I am assuming this is on tip ups...is this correct?

2) What brand leader/how long and what about the type of backing line you use?

3)In the past, I have used #5 trebles ( large by your standards ) , some type of wire leader about 1' in length, Masons braided nylon backing line and a large swivel with a 1/4 oz. egg sinker pinned above it.
 
4) My "new" set up is #3 Gamagatsu wide gap finesse ( red and nickel ), 6' of 12# Seguar fluoro leader with the same backing line, swivel and sinker mentioned above. A guy I know swears by this set up but I'm not  so sure based on what you and others have said. Seems a little on the light side.

5) And what about hook placement on the minnow? I read recently that just in front of the dorsel being careful not to hit the spine (obvious). I had always hooked it in the middle just under the dorsel.

6) Speaking of minnows...suckers or shiners?

Guess that's it...a lot to swallow, I know. Like I said, I have had minor success in my "old" set up...not so sure about my "new" set up...and now looking for specifics from you for my possible "future" set-up. Just trying to get serious about my pike/tip up rigs this season...not just sticking one in the water hoping for the best while I pannie fish. Thanks.
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Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Single Treble Rig
« Reply #29 on: Oct 26, 2018, 10:13 AM »
OK Iceassin, ask and ye shall receive.

1.) Yep, that on tippys but will run on an Automatic Fisherman I picked up off CL this year. Be fine on a deadstick rod as far as that goes. The hook is most important. Mine are 3x strong so they flex very little, if at all, helping it drive in on the set. Even if it hits bone it's more likely to slide down and catch meat rather than bend outward and spring off. I have the mother lode of #10s in the black nickel finish I got for a virtual song. For big baits or quick strike rigs for deads I'll upsize to #6 but that's as big as I've ever used. Iced fish up to 44" with both those hook sizes. Hooks are Eagle Claw 954L, not a sexy brand but a terrific hook.

Here's why small hooks rule:



Figure 3: Schematic drawing based on X-ray photo from cross-section of pike in the 70–90 cm (about 28 – 36 inches) range.

Small hooks from size 4 and down will often be able to get a grip with the barb in the soft tissue (a) over the hard and virtually impenetrable jawbones (b). Very big hooks often get a grip around the jawbone and down through the soft mouth floor (c). On hooks over size 2 the barb will rarely get a grip in the soft tissue (a) over the jawbone.

Saw this mentioned in a recent In-Fisherman article. This pic and description came from here: https://peerj.com/articles/4744/

It's easy to see how large hooks with longer points or simply hooks with long points get less advantage from barbs depending on fish size and hook placement. For those of you that fish barbless by regulation or choice this doesn't matter as much.

2.) AFW uncoated 20# 7 strand in camo/brown. I twist connections so no crimps (Here's how…). I am experimenting this year with some lightly coated 7x7 strand that can be tied with most conventional knots. The uncoated is cheap and dirt easy to work with but curls easily (which doesn't affect leader integrity) and can kink fairly easily as well which does affect leader integrity. The risk is easy to see and can be easily replaced. I keep the damaged ones and repurpose both hooks and swivels and just toss the wire. I expect the coated stuff to be more curl and kink resistant. It also seems more flexible.

My standard length is 18" so if it gets damaged near the hook end (most common) I can cut the hook off and re-twist slightly shorter in less than 2 minutes. I only use Dacron for backing; it stretches very little, much less than nylon and will not dry rot lasting for literally years on the spool. 30 -36# test is about right providing a balance of spool capacity and ease of handling.

3.) Not a question...

4.) I know a few guys that use single hook for pike but not many. I can't work up any enthusiasm for for the 12# fluoro. I always experiment with the latest/greatest in leaders looking for an edge. I have yet to find one. I've had 25# test fluoro cut clean before I could even get to the flag simply from the fish taking off through heavy weeds. Created enough drag that the pressure cut the leader. It actually happened twice in about 20 minutes. Experiment over, back to wire. Sure, fluoro is a superior choice to mono (hard or otherwise) and any superline (absolutely the worst choice) but still a very distant second to metal. BTW, titanium is a metal different from steel only in it's price and reduced flexibility. Remember even though fluoro is really tough it can still be cut (big difference between cutting and breaking) and leader diameter dictates how cut resistant it will be. More diameter = higher # test.

Lotsa folks got setups they swear by, including me. I know I've never had to swear AT mine. Curious, what is the average size fish you catch and the maximum size you might encounter? And which do you wish to target, numbers or size? FWIW, I have never been significantly or regularly outfished by fluorocarbon users for pike.

5.) I'm mostly a dorsal area guy. One exception is using the treble to it's full advantage to hook 2 minnows at the same time. One is usually tail hooked.

6.) Yes. I tote both if I can get 'em. You don't see many suckers here in the south part of the state (at least around us) they are more common up north. I know one dealer that keep some red-tails and when I'm close I get a few dozen and hoard them the last two beers.

Disclaimer: This is stuff that has worked for me over 40 some years of pike fishing. I know that at least some will disagree and that's OK. These are my opinions based on my actual experiences so it will be very difficult to change my mind. I DO like to experiment and do so frequently. Most often I wind up going back to doing what I've done for one reason or another. Sometimes I do get to learn something new  ;D

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