Author Topic: Brushless motors?????  (Read 754 times)

Iceballs204

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Brushless motors?????
« on: Oct 11, 2017, 11:20 PM »
Hello there, can someone educate me on brushless motor. With marcum and vex coming out with brushless, will this stop the "bouncing " bottoms especially with the Marcums. I've only used fish finders and nothing mechanical so any info or feedback would be appreciated

Chute82

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #1 on: Oct 12, 2017, 07:11 AM »
fl-18 which has a brush motor has bottom lock so it has nothing to do with brushes. 
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rl_sd

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #2 on: Oct 12, 2017, 08:00 AM »
fl-18 which has a brush motor has bottom lock so it has nothing to do with brushes.

Bottom lock is only for use in open water

rl_sd

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #3 on: Oct 12, 2017, 08:05 AM »
Hello there, can someone educate me on brushless motor. With marcum and vex coming out with brushless, will this stop the "bouncing " bottoms especially with the Marcums. I've only used fish finders and nothing mechanical so any info or feedback would be appreciated

Not sure what bouncing you are referring to... but I suspect that it has to do with the way the signals are bounced and received and less to do with the mechanics behind displaying them. In a nutshell, the brushless motors are more efficient and have less mechanical pieces (thus less mechanical wear) than a brushed motor.

In high torque applications (aka Hand drills) they are far superior due to the fact that the brushes are usually what causes motor burn out.

hardwater diehard

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #4 on: Oct 12, 2017, 08:13 AM »
Hello there, can someone educate me on brushless motor. With marcum and vex coming out with brushless, will this stop the "bouncing " bottoms especially with the Marcums. I've only used fish finders and nothing mechanical so any info or feedback would be appreciated

https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=319016.msg3356653#msg3356653

Some Marcum issues with motors ...so I guess upgrading to brushless was the cure
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3300

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12, 2017, 08:16 AM »
that's the idea being marcum motors in the past were not very reliable and when they fail the bottom would rock/bounce on display or appear to not be locked onto the bottom of the lake.

so marcum is fixing their brand by going to brushless motors. then by building the first lithium shuttle for all sonars, that will make them the leader in technology.

they do have bottom lock which is called auto depth.

rl_sd

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #6 on: Oct 12, 2017, 08:29 AM »
I don't know much about Marcums... never used one, never saw one used.... I can see where bad brushes in the DC motor could cause the whole display to shift. I am not sure though if the Vex BL is the same as auto depth.... The Vex BL is supposed to keep the entire water column from moving up and down when on a boat... So basically what is changing is the top of the column, not the bottom, atleast I think that is what it does.

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #7 on: Oct 12, 2017, 09:07 AM »
I don't know much about Marcums... never used one, never saw one used.... I can see where bad brushes in the DC motor could cause the whole display to shift. I am not sure though if the Vex BL is the same as auto depth.... The Vex BL is supposed to keep the entire water column from moving up and down when on a boat... So basically what is changing is the top of the column, not the bottom, atleast I think that is what it does.
correct bl on vexilar is only for use in a boat to keep bottom/display rocking up and down..like said on marcums when the whole display rocks up and down the motor timing is out of whack,speeding up and slowing down creating a very crappy/annoying screen display to try and watch.

KinnickResident

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #8 on: Oct 12, 2017, 10:42 AM »
fl-18 which has a brush motor has bottom lock so it has nothing to do with brushes.
My coworker has an FL-18 from the first year they came out, fishes every weekend throughout the winter, and is still on the original brushes. The issue isn't longevity or durability.

Brushless motors are quiet, which is the advantage of having them in a sonar unit.

ice dawg

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #9 on: Oct 12, 2017, 10:56 AM »
I don't know much about Marcums... never used one, never saw one used.... I can see where bad brushes in the DC motor could cause the whole display to shift. I am not sure though if the Vex BL is the same as auto depth.... The Vex BL is supposed to keep the entire water column from moving up and down when on a boat... So basically what is changing is the top of the column, not the bottom, atleast I think that is what it does.
Vex has a feature called Auto Zoom which locks onto the bottom six feet of the water column and enlarges the readout on the left side of the dial.
It seems to go from zero to hero all some have to do is lie.

rl_sd

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #10 on: Oct 12, 2017, 11:05 AM »
My coworker has an FL-18 from the first year they came out, fishes every weekend throughout the winter, and is still on the original brushes. The issue isn't longevity or durability.

Brushless motors are quiet, which is the advantage of having them in a sonar unit.

I don't disagree... I am still using the same FL-8 that I have had for 21 years. In generic terms where the motors are actually being worked though, the brushed vs brushless does make a difference in longevity.

ayvexp

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #11 on: Oct 12, 2017, 02:40 PM »
Brush-less motors offer a few advantages over traditional brushed motors, but efficiency is generally the biggest one.  In a brushed motor, the brushes drag across the commutator bars of the motor, creating drag and eventually wearing out the brushes.  Brush-less motors don't have these issues. 

Brush-less motors are also generally better at regulating speed.  Surging/inconsistent motor speed in a flasher makes the display bounce around.

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #12 on: Oct 12, 2017, 09:44 PM »

then by building the first lithium shuttle for all sonars, that will make them the leader in technology.


This is a joke right?

So Marcum puts a $100 lithium battery in a pack/shuttle and is some kind of leader?

You realized marcum just used Vaseline on people buying the shuttle.....

Take the price of the lithium battery off the shuttle, and they are charging $150 for a shuttle/pack........the marcum shuttle doesn't offer anything special either when compared to the market.

I mean don't get me wrong it's a nice pack/shuttle, but not $150 worth IMO.



Iceballs204

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #13 on: Oct 12, 2017, 11:40 PM »
Thanks for all the replies. Any info is better than no info. Cool to know that tidbit about vex with the boat lock zoom. I remember watching a video of mr genz on a boat using his vex and ice rods. Also nice to know going brushless is more efficient and will make less noise. I hope going brushless helps marcum users from experiencing the "can't find bottom problems ". Thanks fellas

3300

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #14 on: Oct 13, 2017, 12:23 AM »
Iceballs204, it is the best move marcum can make. they should have never used brushed motors to begin with. they were clearing out their flashers with brushed motors this year. people were asking if they were done with mechanical flashers because of it, but turned out to be a remodeling.

i can't stand to stare at that type of flasher.

so what digital sonar or fish finder are you using? you must be doing some research to find out about the motor types used.

This is a joke right?

So Marcum puts a $100 lithium battery in a pack/shuttle and is some kind of leader?

You realized marcum just used Vaseline on people buying the shuttle.....

Take the price of the lithium battery off the shuttle, and they are charging $150 for a shuttle/pack........the marcum shuttle doesn't offer anything special either when compared to the market.

I mean don't get me wrong it's a nice pack/shuttle, but not $150 worth IMO.

i totally disagree. marcum is a leader in sonar as well. do you recall the poll taken here? marcum is the leader then too. now they are the leader in shuttle options also.

i recall your lithium battery project catching on fire when you showed us all what happens trying to piece aftermarket lithium batteries under expensive sonars. i'm sure that wasn't a non vaseline moment either.

because of your humbleness of sharing what can happen experimenting with aftermarket batteries like you did, i wanted to hold off before getting into lithium. they are super dangerous if any thing goes wrong with them. the chemicals have to burn out and you can not put the fire out.

i was stoked when marcum released this shuttle because it is oem and they stand behind it. this means more than saving a few bucks up front. i bought mine the same day i heard it was out!
it is designed by the manufacturer to run 40 hours. they are the only company to use lithium in their shuttle. so yes, they are the leader in shuttles now also.

the tech in it is far above any other shuttle on the market. if you say it is the same as any other on the market, then show us the others that are the same, with all of the great features it has. i know i haven't seen any thing like it, ever. i do want another one for my wife. so maybe you can save me some cash.

when you buy a new marcum, you can buy the combo and save 100$ off this shuttle. that's the price for just one 12 amp hour lithium battery and correct charger (40$ for marcums lithium charger)and is oem.. the shuttle is free at that price point. that's what i am talking about that they are the leader because of this move. no one else offers this package. it can be on an analog flasher or a digital sonar.
you save 10% off the price tag if you sign up for email on marcums web page.

the new features included on the shuttle are perks for sure that no one else has. an empty shuttle is 50$, so for another 50$ you get the dual usb charger ports built-in. the front fishing/charging led. the 4 ram mounting points (with the swing arm included and mounted in one ram mounting point). the on/off switch to shut it all down. the back lit built-in battery indicator. the 2 rear rod holders. the inverted transducer holder to prevent ice ups. the dual articulating handle. the one year warranty on all of it, not just the battery. the 3 amp battery charger. for me the extra 50$ for a fully loaded shuttle is well worth the cost. it would cost me that much to make a hack version of it.

i refuse to put my 1400$ marcum lx9 sonar on just any ones battery. in part, thanks to you. so no, it's no joke. thanks!


Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #15 on: Oct 13, 2017, 07:35 AM »
i totally disagree. marcum is a leader in sonar as well. do you recall the poll taken here? marcum is the leader then too. now they are the leader in shuttle options also.

i recall your lithium battery project catching on fire when you showed us all what happens trying to piece aftermarket lithium batteries under expensive sonars. i'm sure that wasn't a non vaseline moment either.

because of your humbleness of sharing what can happen experimenting with aftermarket batteries like you did, i wanted to hold off before getting into lithium. they are super dangerous if any thing goes wrong with them. the chemicals have to burn out and you can not put the fire out.

The lithium battery was a defect from the company. They sent a replacement out which works fine. Regaurdless of the company a % of anything they make will have defects. While the defects are typically very low, they still happen. Hence refurbished units, and why companies have warranties. Trying to blame the failure of the battery due to putting it in a sonar is laughable. If you think Marcum won't have a failure your just being ignorant.........it wouldn't surprise me if the lithium battery marcum uses wasn't from the same manufacturer That made my lithium battery.


Quote
i was stoked when marcum released this shuttle because it is oem and they stand behind it. this means more than saving a few bucks up front. i bought mine the same day i heard it was out!
it is designed by the manufacturer to run 40 hours. they are the only company to use lithium in their shuttle. so yes, they are the leader in shuttles now also.

the tech in it is far above any other shuttle on the market. if you say it is the same as any other on the market, then show us the others that are the same, with all of the great features it has. i know i haven't seen any thing like it, ever. i do want another one for my wife. so maybe you can save me some cash.

when you buy a new marcum, you can buy the combo and save 100$ off this shuttle. that's the price for just one 12 amp hour lithium battery and correct charger (40$ for marcums lithium charger)and is oem.. the shuttle is free at that price point. that's what i am talking about that they are the leader because of this move. no one else offers this package. it can be on an analog flasher or a digital sonar.
you save 10% off the price tag if you sign up for email on marcums web page.

the new features included on the shuttle are perks for sure that no one else has. an empty shuttle is 50$, so for another 50$ you get the dual usb charger ports built-in. the front fishing/charging led. the 4 ram mounting points (with the swing arm included and mounted in one ram mounting point). the on/off switch to shut it all down. the back lit built-in battery indicator. the 2 rear rod holders. the inverted transducer holder to prevent ice ups. the dual articulating handle. the one year warranty on all of it, not just the battery. the 3 amp battery charger. for me the extra 50$ for a fully loaded shuttle is well worth the cost. it would cost me that much to make a hack version of it.

I get your blinded by love of marcum, but really are these options marcum's innovation.......I mean you act like marcum invented the lithium battery

1. A pack with an on/off switch
2. A battery life indicator
3. Rod holders
4. Cable management
5. A light
6. A lithium battery
7. USB port

Quote
i refuse to put my 1400$ marcum lx9 sonar on just any ones battery. in part, thanks to you. so no, it's no joke. thanks!

LMAO.....because Marcum is who actually manufactures the battery right? I'd like to see the plant they own to just make a few flasher batteries. Your marcum battery is no safer then what I'm using.

hardwater diehard

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #16 on: Oct 13, 2017, 08:53 AM »
Vexilar makes a lot of add ons for existing packs...light ..digital depth ..rod holder ...cup holder ...and there transducers are interchangeable with all there models . no USB port add on ...I made a battery box for my LED lights and USB needs.


 
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Chute82

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #17 on: Oct 13, 2017, 10:10 AM »
Polls? After this last president election? You want to use polls as a reference?    Thatís all I have to say about polls....
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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #18 on: Oct 13, 2017, 12:54 PM »
I for one don't need a fricken usb port to icefish.its like the other day I went into the only nearby gas station to get a cheap pair of pliers because I make my own sinkers and need them to shut them and lost my pair in the river..well back in the good ol days gas stations carry a small selection of tools and emergency items like bulbs and such.i walked over and all it was pairs of gloves,usb cords and a bunch of car phone chargers and some electrical tape.but back on topic brushless motors are nice because they contain a few less parts that wear after time,spin better and  are quieter.

Agronomist_at_IA

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Re: Brushless motors?????
« Reply #19 on: Oct 13, 2017, 03:37 PM »
Vexilar makes a lot of add ons for existing packs...light ..digital depth ..rod holder ...cup holder ...and there transducers are interchangeable with all there models . no USB port add on ...I made a battery box for my LED lights and USB needs.

Was kinda what I was getting at. I mean marcum has a decent product in the shuttle, but at $250 it isn't anything special......heck a guy can get a flasher for that.  I just couldn't let 3300 continue on about how innovative the shuttle was when most of those options have been avalible for over 10-15 years.

Sure marcum finally seen a lot of us ice guys are die hard flasher fisherman, and refreshed their flasher lineup and shuttle to be more appealing to that market and solve product issues they've had.....it's great for us all to have options and competition.......just don't act like it suddenly revolutionized the market.........It's like when cold snap started selling reel bands for $5 and I can pic up nut bands from the farm store at $0.99 for 100 or more.

 


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