Author Topic: Snow dog type machine build  (Read 8529 times)

Offline buckzone101

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #30 on: Dec 13, 2018, 07:41 PM »
Im slowly getting my parts together!
BZ

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #31 on: Dec 14, 2018, 01:44 PM »
Quick video of the machine running around behind the shop yesterday... box on the back holds my vex, rod bag, bait, snacks and ice scoop. Auger goes in the sled with me for now.


Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #32 on: Jan 02, 2019, 09:33 AM »
So for a follow up on it after using for a couple trips now.... I am happy with how it works but would change a few things if I was starting all over.

1) I used a Harbor Freight 6.5HP predator because, well, it was cheaper. If I had the foresight I would of bought the 13.5 hp model because of 3 reasons. The extra power to get up to full track speed under load, the electric start option would be nice to have, and the 13.5 hp model has a charging coil and will power a headlight off the motor where on mine I had to wire up a battery just to run the headlight. Also the torque converter is a little heavier duty as its for the 1" shaft vs the 3/4" shaft I currently have. Likely the belt will last longer as well.

2) Use a newer chassis for the parts sled. I used a 86' Arctic Cat Cougar and it serves its purpose but parts can be hard to find. I had a hard time finding a new old stock chain case seal for it and when you do need parts they are generally more expensive than say a mid90's to early 2000's chassis where parts are plentiful still.

3) Plan out the handlebar design better. I slapped mine together one night and while they work, they cannot fold over the top of the sled because of the rear shock mounts (another reason to go newer sled as they are not mounted that way in later suspension designs. Also I would plan on using more of the original sled switches and controls for kill switch and lights, I had pulled mine off and tossed them before realizing that I should have left them and repurposed them, oh well, next time. My handle bars are not at a good angle for standing and driving, much better for sitting, hopefully the next design will be better for both.
Also after last nights trip my fingers were frozen after pulling my gear, the drive back in the wind starting with cold fingers and below 0 temps will have me adding handle bar mitts this week before my annual trip up north this weekend.











Offline SKIFFLAKEJIMMY

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #33 on: Jan 02, 2019, 09:54 AM »
Very cool. Nice job.
Thank you Lord for thinkin bout me. I'm alive and doin fine!!!!!!

Offline eyeballer6

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #34 on: Jan 02, 2019, 10:18 AM »
Looks good!

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #35 on: Jan 02, 2019, 04:01 PM »
Nice rig.  Electric start is why I went with 15 hp on my second.  Cheaper than the 13 on sale.I use a small Oddessy agm battery. Haven't put  the led lights on yet, have them for a while now. Looking forward to your next build.

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #36 on: Jan 02, 2019, 06:00 PM »
You gotta start somewhere!
Looks good man and I am in the same boat with the bigger engine and charging system for lights and heated grips. Lighting switch controls would be good from the oem sled I tossed mine as well, I found that bicycle levers work way better and more comfortable that sled throttle and brake. Iíve bypassed my govenor on my 6.5 for the xtra jam mostly for hills and such. I wonít be too upset if I blow it up because then I will have to buy a big guy lol.

Hey Bender,
Your in Canada right? Have you had any interactions with the law? Any issues? And are you always helmeted?

Offline buckzone101

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #37 on: Jan 02, 2019, 07:46 PM »
Iv got a 6.5 hp but with thw few mods i plan on doin to it itll net me around 10.5 hp.. and iv got a 1.5 watt solar panel charging a 9ah batt for my led bar.. just need some controls and to finish up my controls
BZ

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #38 on: Jan 02, 2019, 09:15 PM »
Was at a local winter festival a couple years ago. RCMP looked it over, asked the usual questions, like how fast. I explained the more fun than fast aspect. Mainly for ice fishing, they said neat.  Local search and rescue guy there took it for a rip, figured they should have one. When I was building, did some custom machining for a city cop. He took pics to show his buddy, said a machine like that was the least of his worries. Never had any comment on helmet.  Had it at another lake during an ice fishing tourney. Happen to know the mayor, was surveying the area with him on the back. Lots of stopping to bs with the locals.All positive so far.

Offline Jordang2330

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #39 on: Jan 09, 2019, 02:05 AM »
I'm looking at building a track sled like this and I'm wondering about gear ratios.

Is this kind of like machine specific, build it, try it out, adjust accordingly? 

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #40 on: Jan 09, 2019, 09:17 AM »
Lots of figuring out. Engine rpm of 3600 down to track sprocket   That rpm with the circumference gives inches per min, calculated to ft per min, to mph

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #41 on: Jan 09, 2019, 06:13 PM »
Lots of figuring out. Engine rpm of 3600 down to track sprocket   That rpm with the circumference gives inches per min, calculated to ft per min, to mph

This man knows best, I built mine from an old snowmobile chassis and Iíve got 5 sprockets in a box to show its trial and error/ figuring out.

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #42 on: Jan 09, 2019, 08:28 PM »
A digital tach would surely be an asset, especially using a variable pulley system.

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #43 on: Jan 10, 2019, 09:07 AM »
Just got back from a 4 day trip up north where there was still a decent amount of snow on the lake the first day, but nearing 40F temps on end of day 1 into 2 created slushy conditions.

What I learned from the trip. Just me with minimal gear and hard crusty snow, the sled had no problem getting to full RPM and full speed. With the snow pockets/ slush and more gear that I hauled for the rest of the group, it could not get to full speed. It just didn't have the power to get to full RPM and highest gear ratio.

Day 3 the temps dropped and Also, our group dropped from 8 guys with 2 wheelers and my track sled to  4 guys and just my track sled. So we loaded up the 2 magnum sleds in a chain behind the track sled and we all piled in with our gear. And no go. Just sat there and spun since the track sled was so light. We moved one of the guys and had him sit on the wood box on the track sled and we were able to start chugging along. The slush was all frozen from the high winds and temps dropping to 0F the night before.  We may have looked like a circus train but it just kept moving along about 1/2 speed at full throttle. I was amazed at how well it did with that much weight to drag around.

Overall I am very happy with it, but still want to change a couple things.

Option 1: Change gearing and keep the same motor setup which has a couple of downfalls. The jackshaft that I would need to increase the tooth count on the sprocket has no room to do so unless I notch out the tunnel, I have not measured how much room under the tunnel I have before hitting the track. I might not have any room to gain sprocket diameter at all. Secondly, the 6.5hp predator has no charging coil for powering a headlight, and it does not have electric start, not a deal breaker as it starts well pulling it by hand but would be nice to hit a button to start and go!

Option 2: Buy a 13hp Predator engine and gain power, charging capabilities and electric start. I would also have to buy a new torque converter as the shaft sizes are different. Keeping the same jackshaft sprocket gearing since the double HP should be able to keep the RPMs higher. Oddly the 13HP is governed at 3600RPM and the 6.5hp is 3800RPM per specs, but I expect it should still be able to hold full RPM under all loads.

Option 3: Try and sell the current track sled as is and then build version 2 this summer using everything I have learned from version 1. This would allow me to start with a newer chassis possibly with a gearbox with reverse. Newer chassis would have all suspension under /inside track vs current sled that has rear shocks outside the sled that is impeding handlebars form folding over the top of the current sled. Lastly put larger HP engine on new sled with electric start (just like option 2)

I will likely just run it the way it is currently for the rest of the season, unless I find the cash to do the upgrades above what I could sell the current sled for. Right now we have no snow on the ground at home so it will just sit for the time being....

I highly recommend the project if you have the tools to do so. I use the welder at work so until I buy my own I may not be pursuing option 3 as it has been a pain not being able to do that part at home on my free time.   

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #44 on: Jan 10, 2019, 05:00 PM »
I vote for option 3.  Good things learned from first build, incorporate new ideas into a revised version 2. Been there, done that. I would like to do a version 3 myself. Would like to try a variable belt drive, possibly with reverse. I had an old riding mower that had a small fwd/rev gear box, would be ideal.

Offline buckzone101

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #45 on: Jan 10, 2019, 06:35 PM »
This man knows best, I built mine from an old snowmobile chassis and Iíve got 5 sprockets in a box to show its trial and error/ figuring out.
What did you end up with?
BZ

Offline buckzone101

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #46 on: Jan 10, 2019, 06:46 PM »
Iv got a comet style clutch system with a 10 tooth to a 60 tooth... then that drives a 17 tooth to a 34.. but on my 6.5 pread.. iv got the gov. Deleted and a list of other perfomance things done to it to boost it to around a 10.5 they can be built to do 20+ hp.. but its all $$ im also trying to figure out how to stud my track without using aggressive studs. For lights  iv got a 12ah 12 v batt qith a 1.5 watt solar trickle charger hooked up to a 13" led bar... mine is still in the works... looking for some advice on the gearing..  stock motor is gov. At 3800 but with gov delete you can turn around 4500-5k with easy and up to 8k with supporting mods..
BZ

Offline Fisherman 1

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #47 on: Jan 11, 2019, 04:32 PM »

Hey Bender,
Your in Canada right? Have you had any interactions with the law? Any issues? And are you always helmeted?

Each province up here has their own rules when it comes to snowmobiles and any other type of off road vehicle.  I made an inquiry to MTO (Ministry of Transport Ontario) who make the rules for this province.  Finally got an email back from them today and here's what they had to say about it. 

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the use of Snow Dogs in Ontario.

 Based on our current assessment, we have determined that the Snow Dog does not meet the classification requirements of an off-road vehicle (ORV) or motorized snow vehicle (MSV) under the Highway Traffic Act (HTA), Off-Road Vehicle Act (ORVA) or Motorized Snow Vehicle Act (MSVA) regulations.

 ORVs and MSVs riders must meet registration requirements, and must obtain either a plate or permit to operate their vehicle on Ontario roads or lands (i.e., provincial highways, trails). Vehicles that do not meet the ministryís requirements may only be used on private property (i.e. property must be owned by the vehicle operator or the vehicle owner must obtain permission from the property owner prior to operating their vehicle on the property ownerís property).

The Snowdog may also be operated on crown land, unless the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forests (MNRF) specifically prohibits public access to certain specific lands. Operators of the Snowdog must consult the MNRF to determine whether there are any restrictions in place which could prohibit operation of the vehicle on the land which the owner intends to operate the machine.

Thanks and please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.


Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #48 on: Jan 12, 2019, 08:24 PM »
Just got back from a 4 day trip up north where there was still a decent amount of snow on the lake the first day, but nearing 40F temps on end of day 1 into 2 created slushy conditions.

What I learned from the trip. Just me with minimal gear and hard crusty snow, the sled had no problem getting to full RPM and full speed. With the snow pockets/ slush and more gear that I hauled for the rest of the group, it could not get to full speed. It just didn't have the power to get to full RPM and highest gear ratio.

Day 3 the temps dropped and Also, our group dropped from 8 guys with 2 wheelers and my track sled to  4 guys and just my track sled. So we loaded up the 2 magnum sleds in a chain behind the track sled and we all piled in with our gear. And no go. Just sat there and spun since the track sled was so light. We moved one of the guys and had him sit on the wood box on the track sled and we were able to start chugging along. The slush was all frozen from the high winds and temps dropping to 0F the night before.  We may have looked like a circus train but it just kept moving along about 1/2 speed at full throttle. I was amazed at how well it did with that much weight to drag around.

Overall I am very happy with it, but still want to change a couple things.

Option 1: Change gearing and keep the same motor setup which has a couple of downfalls. The jackshaft that I would need to increase the tooth count on the sprocket has no room to do so unless I notch out the tunnel, I have not measured how much room under the tunnel I have before hitting the track. I might not have any room to gain sprocket diameter at all. Secondly, the 6.5hp predator has no charging coil for powering a headlight, and it does not have electric start, not a deal breaker as it starts well pulling it by hand but would be nice to hit a button to start and go!

Option 2: Buy a 13hp Predator engine and gain power, charging capabilities and electric start. I would also have to buy a new torque converter as the shaft sizes are different. Keeping the same jackshaft sprocket gearing since the double HP should be able to keep the RPMs higher. Oddly the 13HP is governed at 3600RPM and the 6.5hp is 3800RPM per specs, but I expect it should still be able to hold full RPM under all loads.

Option 3: Try and sell the current track sled as is and then build version 2 this summer using everything I have learned from version 1. This would allow me to start with a newer chassis possibly with a gearbox with reverse. Newer chassis would have all suspension under /inside track vs current sled that has rear shocks outside the sled that is impeding handlebars form folding over the top of the current sled. Lastly put larger HP engine on new sled with electric start (just like option 2)

I will likely just run it the way it is currently for the rest of the season, unless I find the cash to do the upgrades above what I could sell the current sled for. Right now we have no snow on the ground at home so it will just sit for the time being....

I highly recommend the project if you have the tools to do so. I use the welder at work so until I buy my own I may not be pursuing option 3 as it has been a pain not being able to do that part at home on my free time.

Reading this post is basically a summary of everything I have learned as well. Including the wish for charging coil and electric start haha. Weight on the machine hahah yep, get a guy on there!
Iím sticking with my 208cc first build. It runs like a champ, start easy and pulls pulls pulls. Bender did it best with a widetrack. I wonít build another unless I found that kinda donor. Also my next one would use a comet 40 series! Reverse is a must!

Offline Jordang2330

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #49 on: Mar 18, 2019, 04:18 PM »
I've started my own build and happy with how it's coming about.

I bought a Duromax 16hp engine with electric start and a series 40 torque converter off amazon.  Also bought a very nice low milage '95 Polaris XLT for $500, and it has a new track on it.

At first I thought about just taking the tunnel, jackshaft and lowering the suspension but decided to make the frame and all.  It's a little front heavy at the moment, the 80lbs motor doesn't help, but I still have to add the rear handlebars and make a wood box to go in the back to keep all my gear in.

Thanks for all your help and pictures and videos I've found on here.














Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #50 on: Mar 18, 2019, 10:21 PM »
Good work, keep the pics coming.

Offline Jordang2330

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #51 on: Aug 29, 2019, 02:10 PM »
About 98% done. Just have to take care of a few minor issues, and she'll be ready for the winter.

16hp duromax engine, though thinking about a 10hp tillotson because it's 40lbs compared to the duromax 80#.
Used a 1995 Polaris Indy 500 for the snowmobile parts   Was able to use the disc brake set up from the snowmobile.  Should be around 17-20mph.












Offline WelderMike

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #52 on: Aug 29, 2019, 05:25 PM »
That turned out nice! I should have done the same but working so much no time for projects. Had to buy an actual Snowdog.

Offline Jordang2330

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #53 on: Aug 29, 2019, 05:31 PM »
Thank you.  And I know all about having too many projects.  Definitely a learning experience.  Already making plans for a second one. 

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.

Offline chaumontriverguy

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #54 on: Aug 29, 2019, 05:56 PM »
Thank you.  And I know all about having too many projects.  Definitely a learning experience.  Already making plans for a second one. 

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.
  it's the six million dollar snow dog lol ;)

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #55 on: Sep 09, 2019, 10:43 AM »
About 98% done. Just have to take care of a few minor issues, and she'll be ready for the winter.

16hp duromax engine, though thinking about a 10hp tillotson because it's 40lbs compared to the duromax 80#.
Used a 1995 Polaris Indy 500 for the snowmobile parts   Was able to use the disc brake set up from the snowmobile.  Should be around 17-20mph.


Awesome build, I'll give you a couple thoughts from my build lessons. Stay with the 16hp, the extra hp is really nice when hooking up shacks in chains, multiple guys riding with you etc. Also, I wish I had an extra 40# of weight on my track sled for traction when I have a heavier load being pulled. As long as you aren't planning on lifting the machine for transport, I think the extra 40# wont hurt you. The extra power would be nice in slush too. my 6.5hp was lacking when I hit slush pockets, maybe 10hp would be enough but I plan on rebuilding with the 16hp also.

Depending on your transportation setup, build a hood/ cover for the engine. I built a slush shield for the front of my open trailer but still had significant salt spray/mist accumulation on the engine that lead to rusting and corrosion. I think if I had a hood or cover it would have made a big difference. Also I had a lot of powder flying around the engine when I was cruising during a snowstorm one day. The engine then sucked a bunch of that snow up into the air box, melted from the hot engine when I stopped to fish, froze up the carb when the engine cooled down and then left me stuck where I couldn't get it to run over idle. I still have to build a hood for mine this fall but for sure it will be better protected from that disaster I had. An aftermarket K&N style filter with filter sock may solve that completely compared to the stock box setup but I haven't decided if I want to do that mod if I end up upgrading engines.

I am also glad I had the full snow flap on the back,   Even with mine being full it still sprays a bunch of snow out the back. If you still have the one from the Polaris you may want to add it if lots of powder driving. Just my preference, might not be a problem for you. 

 



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