Author Topic: Snow dog type machine build  (Read 4348 times)

Offline Garrett

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Snow dog type machine build
« on: Aug 24, 2017, 03:33 PM »
I am in progress of building a snowdog type machine using a late 80's Arctic cat cougar as a parts sled that was given to me. Only need a few more parts to get ordered before I start assembling the beast. Anybody else looking at their on ice transportation already and thinking ice wont come soon enough?

Its going to be low powered only using a 6.5hp engine, and gearing (If my math is right) should be about 25MPH max. Should be plenty for this build. If I like it, I plan on building another using a larger motor with electric start.

Offline Junkie4Ice

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #1 on: Aug 24, 2017, 04:04 PM »
Awesome! Post some pics when you get'er finished! I've never seen one in action before but they look pretty sweet!

Picked up an old '85 Honda ATC 110 3 wheeler the other weekend. I grew up on one and have always wanted my own so it'll double as my ice fishing transportation this winter. Come to find out they also float if it were to break through the ice too! Doesn't need much work but i'll be giving her a nice little tune up before this season. Depending how it treks through the snow I've been thinking about rigging up a ski for the front of it.
Da Pack!

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #2 on: Aug 24, 2017, 04:40 PM »
i put kold kutter ice racing screws in my tires on a baja warrior minibike i have just sitting around.250 in each tire.going to make a quick release hitch hook up and it will be ready to pull my gear out.already bought the hitch for my shelters.may not be to fast but it will hook up.ive seen videos of them racing on the ice.thats not me and i don't care if i have to keep my feet on the ice to go..going to beat walking and it doesn't take too much room in the back of my truck.light too.i would love a snow dog style sled.snowmobile is a pain with no trailer and loading it in a truck sucks by yourself.

Offline HardH20Fishin

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #3 on: Aug 24, 2017, 09:52 PM »
junkie4ice,
 I have a honda 3-wheeler too that I converted for ice fishing. Trust me, don't just do a single ski for the front. I copied a version on you-tube a guy did a while ago. search you-tube for "three wheeler ice fishing" and watch the video done by In-Depth Outdoors about the "ski-wheeler". Really simple ski design for the front that is really stable and amazingly effective.  Cost me $40 for a good set of old skis with the leaf springs, then about $15-$20 in steel to weld together. Works great. I'll try to upload some pics later...have to go find them now that photobucket is holding my pic library hostage.

Tight lines....
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy fishing gear....and that's kind of the same thing.

Offline Junkie4Ice

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #4 on: Aug 25, 2017, 08:11 AM »
junkie4ice,
 I have a honda 3-wheeler too that I converted for ice fishing. Trust me, don't just do a single ski for the front. I copied a version on you-tube a guy did a while ago. search you-tube for "three wheeler ice fishing" and watch the video done by In-Depth Outdoors about the "ski-wheeler". Really simple ski design for the front that is really stable and amazingly effective.  Cost me $40 for a good set of old skis with the leaf springs, then about $15-$20 in steel to weld together. Works great. I'll try to upload some pics later...have to go find them now that photobucket is holding my pic library hostage.

Tight lines....

That is ridiculously awesome!! If you find the pics please share! Do you know if there is any way to switch between the ski and wheel or once you weld the steel is it strictly an ice machine? I had to watch the youtube video without sound since I'm at work so maybe they covered this in the video. I kind of want to be able to use the 3wheeler in the summer with my son too but I might have to get a second one because that design looks awesome!
Da Pack!

Offline HardH20Fishin

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #5 on: Aug 27, 2017, 12:04 AM »
junkie4ice,
I put a pic in the previous post of the ski-wheeler on the ice, sorry..don't have a closer up. Yes, I can switch the ski assembly out for the tire in the warm season. The assembly bolts into the same notches in the forks that the tire attaches to.  H here's some pics of the actual ski assembly. The notch at the top of the bar sticking up to the left fits around the stud on the fork where the front tire brake engages when the tire is on and it keeps the whole assembly from rotating. The short bar that attaches to the forks has the plate welded to it and the longer bar that the skis are attached to attaches to the plate with a single bolt. The only thing I will do differently on the next one is to increase the gap between the upper and lower bars just a bit more. When I turn the handle bars all the way in a turn, the outside ski does lift off the ground just a little. A slightly bigger gap would keep the ski's on the ground better. But, that said, it still works just fine as is. I should probably paint this too...but it is a "prototype" so, you know.....

Seriously though, it works really well.


You can't buy happiness, but you can buy fishing gear....and that's kind of the same thing.

Offline Cfilbert

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #6 on: Aug 27, 2017, 09:45 AM »
How does that thing handle on glare Ice?  does the solid axle want to keep you tracking straight even with the skis turned?
Is the ice thick enough yet?

Offline HardH20Fishin

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #7 on: Aug 27, 2017, 12:01 PM »
I haven't had it on glare ice. Had it on as little as an inch of snow on ice though and it tracked just fine.
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy fishing gear....and that's kind of the same thing.

Offline sunniewally

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #8 on: Aug 27, 2017, 01:33 PM »
How does that thing handle on glare Ice?  does the solid axle want to keep you tracking straight even with the skis turned?

Will have to put a good set of carbides on the skis


Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #9 on: Aug 27, 2017, 02:47 PM »
I would just stud the tires on a 3 wheeler,my Honda 200s 3 wheeler went great even without studs and didn't need a ski..balloon tires stay on top of slow and slush.i would still use mine but it was so cold blooded and hard to start in anything below 30 degrees.jmo.that ski setup looks great tho.

Offline HardH20Fishin

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #10 on: Aug 27, 2017, 04:30 PM »
Yeah, I had cold start issues at first too. But then I added the ISO Heat fuel additive and changed the oil out with an oil that didn't get so thick when cold (don't remember what kind exactly, just what the local atv shop recommended). Starts right up now, even overnight on super cold Flaming Gorge reservoir.
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy fishing gear....and that's kind of the same thing.

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #11 on: Aug 27, 2017, 06:04 PM »
Yeah, I had cold start issues at first too. But then I added the ISO Heat fuel additive and changed the oil out with an oil that didn't get so thick when cold (don't remember what kind exactly, just what the local atv shop recommended). Starts right up now, even overnight on super cold Flaming Gorge reservoir.
mine would start alright but would foul the plug for some reason after 5 minutes of riding.probably jetting.ran great spring thru fall until  it got cold enough to snow.lol.i have a little Suzuki lt 125 quad now. I'm going to see if it likes the cold.it has 2 different choke settings and a primer so it should run in the cold.

Offline Junkie4Ice

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #12 on: Aug 28, 2017, 08:22 AM »
Yeah, I had cold start issues at first too. But then I added the ISO Heat fuel additive and changed the oil out with an oil that didn't get so thick when cold (don't remember what kind exactly, just what the local atv shop recommended). Starts right up now, even overnight on super cold Flaming Gorge reservoir.

Good to know, I'd rather be over cautious than be stuck at the landing and have to pull the gear by hand! I figured I could start it up before leaving the house while it is still warm from being in the garage and it should still be good to go by the time I get to the landing. This first winter with it will be some trial and error I guess!
Da Pack!

Offline michianafisherman

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #13 on: Aug 28, 2017, 01:20 PM »
The old Honda's are getting older by the minute. With that said, the old condenser and points need replacing.
They will run with the old parts, but have a week spark for cold starting.
I carry starting fluid for the below 0 days.

Offline Junkie4Ice

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #14 on: Sep 01, 2017, 09:49 AM »
junkie4ice,
I put a pic in the previous post of the ski-wheeler on the ice, sorry..don't have a closer up. Yes, I can switch the ski assembly out for the tire in the warm season. The assembly bolts into the same notches in the forks that the tire attaches to.  H here's some pics of the actual ski assembly. The notch at the top of the bar sticking up to the left fits around the stud on the fork where the front tire brake engages when the tire is on and it keeps the whole assembly from rotating. The short bar that attaches to the forks has the plate welded to it and the longer bar that the skis are attached to attaches to the plate with a single bolt. The only thing I will do differently on the next one is to increase the gap between the upper and lower bars just a bit more. When I turn the handle bars all the way in a turn, the outside ski does lift off the ground just a little. A slightly bigger gap would keep the ski's on the ground better. But, that said, it still works just fine as is. I should probably paint this too...but it is a "prototype" so, you know.....

Seriously though, it works really well.
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Do you have dimensions for how far apart you have the skis and how big the gap is between the upper and lower bars and how much wider you would have made it?
Da Pack!

Offline chilly-willy

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #15 on: Sep 01, 2017, 01:22 PM »
Wondering my self how a colmen trill bike would do??  like the ct200u ex  the one with schocks??  they even have performance up grades on the Web for souping them up..  for around $500 for a new ice bike..   if it fell threw ice your only out $500 .. better then $10,000-$18,000 for a new 4x4 atv..   don't know how deep snow or wet glare ice it would handle ??  Any how might be the next project to make a t-rex style one of those with the two wheels in the front?? Or skis ?

Offline HardH20Fishin

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #16 on: Sep 01, 2017, 07:40 PM »
junkie4ice,
The skis are 29 inches wide from center of one ski to the next....which I shot for to essentially have the skis close to center of the back wheel that they are in front of. The gap between the two bars is 1/4 inch...for version 2 I would make it 1/2 inch.

Tight lines...
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy fishing gear....and that's kind of the same thing.

Offline Junkie4Ice

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #17 on: Sep 04, 2017, 08:06 AM »
junkie4ice,
The skis are 29 inches wide from center of one ski to the next....which I shot for to essentially have the skis close to center of the back wheel that they are in front of. The gap between the two bars is 1/4 inch...for version 2 I would make it 1/2 inch.

Tight lines...

Thank you sir! I'm in the works of trying to find a set of skis, it is a little harder than I anticipated. Looking forward to trying it out!
Da Pack!

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #18 on: Nov 20, 2017, 08:18 PM »
Winter's back.  Any progress reports from the snow dog builders? Had mine out last couple of days getting firewood, fun times.   
To PO Garrett, you may want to look at a little less top speed. You will lose a lot of bottom end grunt with tall gearing and 12-15 mph is lots on one of these. No suspension in the towed sled gives lots of surprises on rough ice.

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #19 on: Nov 21, 2017, 02:29 PM »
Not much progress at all. Car repairs, firewood, hunting and family has taken priority this fall. Hoping that I can work on it a little this week and at least have it assembled soon. I will likely be looking closely at gearing it down further, I expect it to work out about 20-25mph with the current gearing and If I can fit the larger sprockets in the current jackshaft I have planned it will gear it down further.

-Garrett

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #20 on: Dec 11, 2017, 10:15 AM »
Winter's back.  Any progress reports from the snow dog builders? Had mine out last couple of days getting firewood, fun times.   
To PO Garrett, you may want to look at a little less top speed. You will lose a lot of bottom end grunt with tall gearing and 12-15 mph is lots on one of these. No suspension in the towed sled gives lots of surprises on rough ice.

Metalbender-
Do you have a suggestion of gear reduction to the track drive shaft. I need to order a different sprocket for my build anyway. I am at about a 3:1 reduction as planned now. Which should give ma a 17mph max if I calculated correctly. Thinking of possibly gearing down further but I am running into some space restrictions and fitting in the larger sprocket would force me to offset the engine to one side of the machine which I would like to avoid.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.


-Garrett

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #21 on: Dec 11, 2017, 05:19 PM »
The first sled I built used a centrifugal clutch with a 7 hp engine and a jack shaft, giving a two step reduction.  The later one utilizes a 2-1 reduction gearbox with an integral multi disc wet centrifugal clutch.  Has 15 hp with electric start.  I think the final drive is around 3-1 to the track.

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #22 on: Dec 11, 2017, 08:54 PM »
Okay this one for now is torque converter on a harbor freight engine reduced down to the original jackshaft for the snowmobile drive so the snowmobile chaincase and brake setup can still be used as well.

Hopefully it turns out okay, so far not much money invested but will be fun if I can get it finished up soon. Goal is to be done by xmas so I can pull the kids around with it... and do some ice fishing🤞

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #23 on: Mar 05, 2018, 10:54 AM »
Well I finally have it up and running, used a thumb throttle which I might change over to a twist throttle eventually. The handle bars need to be more rigid for the attachment place. On the flat, it is a blast! but in deeper snow when it starts to carve one way or another the handlebars flex instead of being used to correct the lean. Either way I like it so far and the kids like riding behind it so its okay if the wife doesn't  ;D
Sorry for the large pic in advanced, new to attached images and linked it over from FB and not sure how to resize it.


Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #24 on: Mar 05, 2018, 01:50 PM »
If it's working, you're at 100%  My suggestion is to mount the handlebars right on the bar coming from the sled. A video would be great.

Offline sdbigeye

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #25 on: Mar 06, 2018, 11:21 PM »
Garrett, do you have any pics of the drive side? have access to an old Polaris with FNR gears and plan to do the same to it. Sled was made in 1966 I think.

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #26 on: Mar 07, 2018, 02:42 PM »
I have modified the mount a little bit since that picture. It was allowing too much flex while carving in deeper snow. Instead of holding the sled at a certain angle it was basically twisting further until it was allowed to basically flop over. Rebuilt the base and its much better. Another thing I want to change is the curve of the handle so it sits higher at "rest". Length of the throttle cable is maxed out so I have to get a longer one before I address the handle angle. So far its a ton of fun ;D

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #27 on: Mar 07, 2018, 06:31 PM »
I used bicycle brake cables for the throttle and brake.  Cheap and new from CDN tire.

Offline Garrett

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #28 on: Mar 14, 2018, 12:32 PM »
hey Guys, I finally got my video taken while giving my daughter a ride, probably going 1/2 speed at the most during the video. So far its been a blast, still tweaking things but runs awesome right now too. Hopefully this link works, I will eventually load it onto youtube too.

https://www.facebook.com/garrett.gorden/videos/10102420589102426/

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow dog type machine build
« Reply #29 on: Mar 14, 2018, 04:13 PM »
Good job

 



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