rainbows..

[Kyle_]

im going to a lake this weekend for rainbows that has a bait ban.
im gonna try tons of flies(scuds,leeches,backswimmers,etc)
small swedish pimples, little tube jigs, small spoons.
thats pretty much all i got right now, im wondering if any of you guys would reccomend something else

[Kyle_]

well here in AB
its no live bait across the whole province,
the lakes with bull trout in em have a bait ban...no bait, nothing scented,etc

[reelbigfish]

If your allowed more than one line, a wind tipup is a good option.










Ted

[crappieslayer22]

what lake u fishing

[crappieslayer22]

what lake is it send ma a pm

[PGKris]

Go with some curly tail jigs or some fry patterns if the bows there are fish eaters. If not, try a chronny under an indicator.....same as spring flyfishin. If they're agressive you might jig them up on crocs. You're lucky. All the lakes here that have a bait ban are also single barbless and closed Nov 1st-April 30th. Best lake I fished last year was: Bait ban, single barbless hook, quota of 3 and none over 16" (Which was ALL of them) Also closed Nov 1st - April 30th.
Taker easy man
KRIS

[PondPro]

that stinks for u guys.

[Kyle_]

not really.
i have lakes where i can use bait.
ive had days where fies would beat the sh*t out of bait.

[iceintheveins]

That sucks to have bait bans or scented lure bans. Just about every study done shows barbless hooks and barbed hooks do not have a significant difference in mortality, and that scented lures do not have a higher mortality either. Here is the study on scented lures. All barbless hook rules and scented lure bans should be repealed. I can see banning live minnows though. But not bait, scented lures, or barbed hooks. Bait only has a higher mortality when fished passively, not when fished actively, such as jigging while ice fishing. This study even shows minnow tipped jigs not to have a higher mortality.

This from fisheries Scientist Ralph Manns, from the January 2006 issue of In - Fisherman magazine:

Some anglers and fishery managers have been concerned that the use of scented or flavored lures increases mortality in catch and release fisheries. To assess this possibility, Canadian Biologists hooked 238 smallmouth bass to assess injuries and short term mortality*.
Experienced and novice anglers fished with minnow tipped jigs; non - scented plastic; 4" smoke colored grubs, and similar grubs scented or flavored with several chemical attractants. Attractant baits were Berkley Power Grubs, Yamamoto Salted Grubs, and unscented plastic grubs immersed in anise oil. About 50 bass were taken on each type of lure. Anglers recorded the location of hook wounds and any bleeding, and bass were then held in a large retention cage to evaluate mortality.

THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATE OR SHORT TERM MORTALITY. THE TYPE OF BAIT USED HAD NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON THE SEVERITY OF HOOK INJURIES, but more experienced anglers hooked fish deeper inside the mouth than did novices, for some procedural reason. Although the study was limited as to the specific type of lures used, THE AUTHORS FOUND NO BIOLOGICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR RULES RESTRICTING SCENTED LURES OR ATTRACTANTS.

* Dummal, K.M., S.J. Cooke, J.F Schreer, and R.S. McKinley. 2001. The effect of scented lures on the hooking injury and mortality of smallmouth bass caught by novice and experienced anglers. N. Am. J. Fish Management. 24:242-248

Barbless hook regulations are pointless and should not be in place. Check the topic on google and see how many studies you find showing no higher mortality with barbed hooks as compaired to barbless. I guess it's just the socialists in Canada and in the US to a lesser extent that push a barbless only regulation.

[PGKris]

Kyle, I'm hi-jacking your thread. Sorry.

I disagree. Baited hooks are just that...baited hooks. Fish will be hooked deeper when using bait. Every fisherman who's ever fly fished and bait fished knows it. Barbless hook rules are good conservation practices. Fish that are hooked with barbs are out of the water longer because of the extra time required to get the hook out and are usually bleeding a hell of a lot more than when you use a barbed hook. I normally go barbless everywhere I fish. I've never used scented bait up here and as far as I'm concerned they are a waste of money. When I use bait I use worms or shrimp and a few other tricks.
Any data you can pull from In-Fisherman magazine I would be highly suspect of simply becuase they are telling their readers what they want to hear. Studies done by well known fisheries biologists and published in scientific journals would be much mnore reliable.
It's a personal choice and its about respecting the fish you're catching.
KRIS

[iceintheveins]

Kyle, I'm hi-jacking your thread. Sorry.

I disagree. Baited hooks are just that...baited hooks. Fish will be hooked deeper when using bait. Every fisherman who's ever fly fished and bait fished knows it. Barbless hook rules are good conservation practices. Fish that are hooked with barbs are out of the water longer because of the extra time required to get the hook out and are usually bleeding a hell of a lot more than when you use a barbed hook. I normally go barbless everywhere I fish. I've never used scented bait up here and as far as I'm concerned they are a waste of money. When I use bait I use worms or shrimp and a few other tricks.
Any data you can pull from In-Fisherman magazine I would be highly suspect of simply becuase they are telling their readers what they want to hear. Studies done by well known fisheries biologists and published in scientific journals would be much mnore reliable.
It's a personal choice and its about respecting the fish you're catching.
KRIS

I have to disagree. I bait fish all the time on rivers with a single barbed hook. I utilize a an active drifting/jigging presentation with my bait. At worst, one in twelve trout are deeply hooked. Most are hooked right in the upper jaw or mouth. It only takes a couple seconds to unhook them and I leave them in the water while doing it. It is not that you fish bait, but HOW you fish it that influences mortality. If your not utilizing an active presentation fishing bait in a river, your not catching that many fish anyway. And the problem is most all plastics are scented and scented lure bans by default ban plastics from most fly and lure only waters.

The only people you ever hear and only fish you ever hear mentioned in bait mortality studies is trout and other salmonids. It's just because most fly fishermen fish for trout and salmon. So they just take advantage of the fact that bait has a higher mortality in some situaions so they can ban bait on their streams because of their elitist, snobbish attitude. With that I mean only the fly fishermen who look down their noses at others, not most fly fishermen.
Fly fishing often has the highest mortality because many fly flickers use very light leader or tippet and they play the fish for so long that the fish builds up lactic acid from fatigue and will actually die of metabolic acidosis.

[grumpymoe]

I have to disagree. I bait fish all the time on rivers with a single barbed hook. I utilize a an active drifting/jigging presentation with my bait. At worst, one in twelve trout are deeply hooked. Most are hooked right in the upper jaw or mouth. It only takes a couple seconds to unhook them and I leave them in the water while doing it. It is not that you fish bait, but HOW you fish it that influences mortality. If your not utilizing an active presentation fishing bait in a river, your not catching that many fish anyway. And the problem is most all plastics are scented and scented lure bans by default ban plastics from most fly and lure only waters.

The only people you ever hear and only fish you ever hear mentioned in bait mortality studies is trout and other salmonids. It's just because most fly fishermen fish for trout and salmon. So they just take advantage of the fact that bait has a higher mortality in some situaions so they can ban bait on their streams because of their elitist, snobbish attitude. With that I mean only the fly fishermen who look down their noses at others, not most fly fishermen.
Fly fishing often has the highest mortality because many fly flickers use very light leader or tippet and they play the fish for so long that the fish builds up lactic acid from fatigue and will actually die of metabolic acidosis.

     I disagree completely with this nonsense about barbless hooks.....the proof is in the pudding so to speak.....stick a barbed hook in your hand....heck even stick a big Gamatsu in your mouth.....and try and pull that out without causing some damage.....flyfishers are just as responsible and conservationist as anyone else when it comes to CPR.....labelling flyfisherpeople as elitist, snobbish is narrow-minded?.....get a life.....for those that can still legally angle with barbed hooks.....so be it.....for those that have to abide by barbless regulations....more power to you......it takes more expertise to work and land a fish barbless....true conservationists for the fisheries....Grump

[iceintheveins]

     I disagree completely with this nonsense about barbless hooks.....the proof is in the pudding so to speak.....stick a barbed hook in your hand....heck even stick a big Gamatsu in your mouth.....and try and pull that out without causing some damage.....flyfishers are just as responsible and conservationist as anyone else when it comes to CPR.....labelling flyfisherpeople as elitist, snobbish is narrow-minded?.....get a life.....for those that can still legally angle with barbed hooks.....so be it.....for those that have to abide by barbless regulations....more power to you......it takes more expertise to work and land a fish barbless....true conservationists for the fisheries....Grump

Whatever grouch. Study after study, and that's HUNDREDS show barbless hooks and barbed hooks have no statistically significant difference in mortality. Do a google search and see how much you get. Human flesh is different than fish flesh anyway, it's A LOT harder to pull a hook out of a human than it is a fish.
I also did NOT label all fly fishermen that, and even clearly stated that in my post. You need to get a life. I can show you TONS of studies that show NO FREAKING DIFFERENCE. Barbless hook regs just look good on paper and are also tough to enforce too.

[camo_fish]

.....for those that can still legally angle with barbed hooks.....so be it.....for those that have to abide by barbless regulations....more power to you......it takes more expertise to work and land a fish barbless....true conservationists for the fisheries....Grump

There are several lakes in Canada that are barbless only....and yes they monitor them closely....The one day that we went to a barbless lake we were stopped and FINED....sux....we used barbless all morning long....and after lunch we got tired of smashing down the barbs.....that is when the warden showed up...
And it is so true about it takes alittle more pazzzass to use barbless and land fish...we lost fish all day long

I can show you TONS of studies that show NO FREAKING DIFFERENCE. Barbless hook regs just look good on paper and are also tough to enforce too.

BS, BS, BS, once again.  I think you need to get off the planet you live in and try fishing some of the other lakes in the different lakes...you truely wouldn't have a clue were to start....
Do we always have to hear about your upside-down methods and theories. 

Just because you don't deal with barbless waters, or even if you do, it is easy to enforce  and no it just doesn't look good on paper... it is a pain to use barbless then targetting pike, trout, etc... but it can be done...just need to remember to always have a tight line and any slack, jump out of the water, turn of the head....and you lost'em  so it looks good on paper, but it sux when the  "MAN" shows up to check out what your using....if not barbless....ticket (fine) and they take the lure too. 

[JJ]

Whatever grouch. Study after study, and that's HUNDREDS show barbless hooks and barbed hooks have no statistically significant difference in mortality. Do a google search and see how much you get. Human flesh is different than fish flesh anyway, it's A LOT harder to pull a hook out of a human than it is a fish.
I also did NOT label all fly fishermen that, and even clearly stated that in my post. You need to get a life. I can show you TONS of studies that show NO FREAKING DIFFERENCE. Barbless hook regs just look good on paper and are also tough to enforce too.

Please show us these HUNDREDS OF studies, the proof is in the pudding as they say.

[PGKris]

Whoa. I didn't mean to start a war.
1) Barbs cause more damage. Anyone who's removed a barbed hook vs. barbless hook knows that. Period. End of discussion.

2) Some fly-fishermen are purists. These people I prefer not to deal with because they insist on dividing sportsmen in groups. We are all in this together. Let's all get along.

3) Iceintheveins.....calm your ass down! With as many posts to your credit as you do I would assume by now you would understand that when you start giving opinions on this site you had better be able to back them up with fact or people will chew you up and spit you out.

4) Lactic acid build up in fish a minor problem that can be corrected by giving the fish plenty of recovery time.

5) When I fish waters I consider to be sensitive and when I know damn well I won't be taking any fish home (even though I'm allowed 5 a day) I will pinch my barbs just because I respect the fish and I don't want to accidentally kill it.

6) Camo - There are likely a few hundred thousand lakes up here that are restricted to bait ban, single hooks, barbless hooks or any combination of those things. They are definitely well enforced because I have the cell phone numbers of the fish cops right behind my licence. They will take more than your lure as well. They might confiscate your entire tackle box and rods Obey the rules

KRIS

[camo_fish]

6) Camo - There are likely a few hundred thousand lakes up here that are restricted to bait ban, single hooks, barbless hooks or any combination of those things. They are definitely well enforced because I have the cell phone numbers of the fish cops right behind my licence. They will take more than your lure as well. They might confiscate your entire tackle box and rods Obey the rules

KRIS

So true, so true. I was up there in the Souix Falls area with an outfiter which will go unnamed and was fully guided. We all knew better, but sometimes we all try and get away with things from time to time. 
I know that the  warden could have taken more and even looked at the guide and told him that he knew better too, but didn't do anything to the guide, (no fine, but took his lure too) we were all lucky. Just a hook and plastic bait taken, a few $$ fine and a finger pointing and lesson learned. 
I was just stating and proving a point that it looks better than on paper and is closely enforced. 

[PGKris]

Fine for no licence: $175
Fine for treble hook: $135
Fine for a barb: $115
Fine for bait: $115
Plus confiscation.....not a profitable way to fish

[camo_fish]

Fine for no licence: $175
Fine for treble hook: $135
Fine for a barb: $115
Fine for bait: $115
Plus confiscation.....not a profitable way to fish

Back in 2000 I think we were fined for a barb @ $60 or $80.
And I think we took care of it at the lodge and just mailed it in or something like that.
A stupid mistake, just for a barb on the hook.  yes, I said it, stupid mistake just to catch a few more fish.
I think we were back on Hooch lake. Some awesome fishing, pike and muskies all over.
It was an awesome fishing trip, I've always wanted to go back.

[PGKris]

Dollar amounts will be different in each province. I think BC is all around the most expensive.

[yooperdave]

#5 or six swedish pimps in silver with red or blue

[PGKris]

Now we're all purists. Riiiight. And you have become the self-righteous flag-waving american that will stand up for what he believes even if it is wrong.  Find a real PEER REVIEWED ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC PAPER that proves definitively that barbless hooks cause less damage than barbless hooks. Don't give me DNR bullcrap. You're wrong. get over it and move on with your life.

[adipose]

man if my grandfather read any of this he would fall off his walker!back then life was simple.we are all stressing ourselves out with all this crap.I know its important to some of you guys but look what we have done to create tention between each other or inside of us all.Just go out and catch em any way you feel comfortable before my grampa turns over in his grave!

[Kyle_]

at a little private lake i fish i tried using barbs one day and then barbless for the other half of the day....
i came to the conclusion that any idiot can reel in a fish on barbs.  it takes some skill to bring in a fish on barbless, which is funner to me.  any slack and that fish is gone.
also, it is WAY WAY WAY easier with barbless to pull hook out.
oh yeah check out these pictures of problems that occur when using barbed hooks.
http://www.performanceflyrods.com/barbless/barblesshooks.html

[deadsmelthead]

When trout fishinng (any method) I use barbless ( i release all trout I catch)there just easier to pull out, I have even read that if you burry a barbless hook in a fishes throat that instead of twisting and pulling and killing the fish  that you should just cut the line and leav it and eventuallythe barb will rust and alow the hook to fall out.

[camo_fish]

  it takes some skill to bring in a fish on barbless, which is funner to me.  any slack and that fish is gone.

awesome, so true, so true, WTG on some fun rainbowing. 

[Kyle_]

*EDIT*
it takes some skill to bring in a fish on barbs, which is funner to me.  any slack and that fish is gone.

should read barbless instead of barbs

OOPS.

[camo_fish]

*EDIT*
it takes some skill to bring in a fish on barbs, which is funner to me.  any slack and that fish is gone.

should read barbless instead of barbs

OOPS.

LOL i see that, no problem, we knew that ya meant.  and fixed too. 

[Fishrmn]

I fish a reservoir that has a "no bait" rule as well.  In fact, I helped get the law changed to include "no scents, or attractants".  The first time that I punched a hole in the ice, I figured that I would be wasting my time, and would only be washing lures for the day.  I found that the trout there LOVED small crappie jigs.  1/32 of an ounce marabou jigs, the ones with chenile bodies.  They didn't seem to like plain marabou jigs at all.  Try a few different colors.  White, black, and ginger are my favorites.

Fishrmn

[camo_fish]

I fish a reservoir that has a "no bait" rule as well.  In fact, I helped get the law changed to include "no scents, or attractants".  The first time that I punched a hole in the ice, I figured that I would be wasting my time, and would only be washing lures for the day.  I found that the trout there LOVED small crappie jigs.  1/32 of an ounce marabou jigs, the ones with chenile bodies.  They didn't seem to like plain marabou jigs at all.  Try a few different colors.  White, black, and ginger are my favorites.

Fishrmn

very cool, they must think it is fishwater shrimp or something. I've also here that little flies work good too. But, you normally have to have a jig also tied on to get the flies down, just place them about 10"-12" apart.

never thought of the little hair marabou jigs.
Thanks for the info.  8)