Author Topic: Snow Dog Track Sled  (Read 36983 times)

Offline joefishmore

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #300 on: Feb 07, 2019, 08:24 AM »

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #301 on: Feb 11, 2019, 07:50 PM »
Wow that wilcraft is something else! Very awesome

Just wanted to share a video of some dog riding I did in some deep snow. I broke trail everywhere but camera angles were screwed so footage was unusable. Super impressed even the 5 hp dog we built astounds me.


Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #302 on: Feb 12, 2019, 05:33 AM »
Nice video and you do exactly what I do, make your own track rather than ride in uneven existing tracks. It does appear your home made dog is lower to the ground and might have a lower center of gravity. A couple spots where you were off kilter I think my Snowdog would have wanted to take a trail side nap and I absolutely don't like the way you have your auger blade mounted. Mine rides facing north and south either in a sled behind my dog's sled or on top of the motor unit just in case I do flip over. I do wonder of mounting a set of snowmobile skis on each side as outriggers might help when we do get on a tilted slope or in deep ruts made by other machines. I was out yesterday on a local lake with no snow on top but lots of ruts left from other machines that were out on it when the snow was soft, it was a workout unless I was cruising along pretty slow. I did find a couple spots that were perfectly flat where I could go full throttle. If 20 MPH is full speed then I hit it a few times and can tell you that is plenty fast enough and I would not want to go any faster ever.

Gam
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Offline eiderz

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #303 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:40 AM »
Interesting video Rapo, that's a nice machine you built. It breaks trail pretty good and looks like a really smooth ride in the powder.  :thumbsup: I was looking at the docks along shore cranked halfway up, at night you could get clothes-lined pretty bad by the legs.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #304 on: Feb 12, 2019, 07:28 AM »
Interesting video Rapo, that's a nice machine you built. It breaks trail pretty good and looks like a really smooth ride in the powder.  :thumbsup: I was looking at the docks along shore cranked halfway up, at night you could get clothes-lined pretty bad by the legs.

You could get clothes-lined on any machine and that would not be good. Same for running through unknown fields that could have hidden tree stumps or large rocks. Track sleds need to be driven carefully just like any other off road machines.

Gam
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Offline eiderz

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #305 on: Feb 12, 2019, 09:40 AM »
You could get clothes-lined on any machine and that would not be good.
Gam

Yup, my snowsled is what I had in mind.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #306 on: Feb 12, 2019, 09:45 AM »
Yup, my snowsled is what I had in mind.

Running out on the ice I always travel at least 100 feet from the shore line just for that very reason. Lots of folks here pull their docks out for the winter but the pillions could be just a few inches above plus we always find the weakest ice right close to the shore.

Gam
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Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #307 on: Feb 12, 2019, 03:13 PM »
Nice video and you do exactly what I do, make your own track rather than ride in uneven existing tracks. It does appear your home made dog is lower to the ground and might have a lower center of gravity. A couple spots where you were off kilter I think my Snowdog would have wanted to take a trail side nap and I absolutely don't like the way you have your auger blade mounted. Mine rides facing north and south either in a sled behind my dog's sled or on top of the motor unit just in case I do flip over. I do wonder of mounting a set of snowmobile skis on each side as outriggers might help when we do get on a tilted slope or in deep ruts made by other machines. I was out yesterday on a local lake with no snow on top but lots of ruts left from other machines that were out on it when the snow was soft, it was a workout unless I was cruising along pretty slow. I did find a couple spots that were perfectly flat where I could go full throttle. If 20 MPH is full speed then I hit it a few times and can tell you that is plenty fast enough and I would not want to go any faster ever.

Gam

Hey Gamalot, glad you liked the video. The local fishing forum where I originally posted the details of my build seems to have maybe lost interest. Thatís okay tho because until you operate these machines its really kind of tough to understand that they really are the ultimate ice fishing machine.

 Breaking trail is almost always more enjoyable than following a track, no matter what machine your on, I enjoy it a lot. Just riding a dog could be called slowmobiling and Iím happy with it lol.

 I havenít had the chance park my homedog beside the real deal to judge overall height and such to get an idea of center of gravity. It should be obvious thatís the snowmobile track is longer and narrower than the legit snowdog and that allows for easier tip/lean turns. I mostly just lean it and then balance the machine. Iím in my 20ís and have spent a lot of hours riding and learning how to maneuver my dog and its not always easy. Once you get the hang of it you know how to manipulate it and when to do so. The biggest obstacle is uneven terrain. Anytime Iím approaching a hill or a side hill I am leaning the machine as to keep it level while the hill is sloped. Also staying on the top side of hills is easier than letting gravity throw you around. Speed comes into play, its hard to describe in words but the concept of how the track needs to be manipulated is similar to a snowmobile, just the input to make it do what you want is totally different from a snowmobile.

Sorry you donít like my auger mount, I thought for a while how to do it and thatís the best, fastest and easily accessible spot I could come up with. More weight on the machine is better for me. I donít want the auger rolling around in my towed sleigh with me. I can imagine a lake with only ruts would be tough to maneuver. Glad you found some flat stuff. My dog uses a 7hp and a comet 30 series cvt , while the original snowdog uses similar engine on theire compact model it is still equipped with the 40 series, which is what I wish I went with in hindsight. My dog topís out at 20km per hour. Fast as hell on the trails... leaves something to be desired on the open lake. Oh well, some days I dream of the ultimate homemade dog. Then others I think why wouldnít I just buy the Biggest snowdog and be done.

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #308 on: Feb 12, 2019, 03:26 PM »
From the cvt sprocket to the next big sprocket on the original drive where the torque converter was.how many tooth sprocket are you running?i build briggs,tecumseh and predator motors and hop them up.ive got a 5hp briggs modded with a light aluminum flywheel hi compression piston,bigger valves and valve springs,racing cam,pipe with 1Ē crankshaft  so i can run the 40 series cvt.its probably 10hp now.i just need my snowmobile chassis.im guessing 72 tooth or more on the big drive sprocket?im fine with torque over top speed.to small of gearing will burn belts up.been there with the mini bikes I build.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #309 on: Feb 12, 2019, 05:07 PM »
From the cvt sprocket to the next big sprocket on the original drive where the torque converter was.how many tooth sprocket are you running?i build briggs,tecumseh and predator motors and hop them up.ive got a 5hp briggs modded with a light aluminum flywheel hi compression piston,bigger valves and valve springs,racing cam,pipe with 1Ē crankshaft  so i can run the 40 series cvt.its probably 10hp now.i just need my snowmobile chassis.im guessing 72 tooth or more on the big drive sprocket?im fine with torque over top speed.to small of gearing will burn belts up.been there with the mini bikes I build.

Damn Doc, you just had to go and get all technical on us. I used to do all the sprocket play with my dirt bikes and to be honest I usually found the manufacturers got it as close to correct as most riders wanted them. I ride a Yamaha BW 350 these days that came with a 37 tooth rear wheel sprocket but I swapped it for a 43 tooth and those extra 6 teeth sure do make a world of difference but mostly in the low end grunt. Not sure if these track tow machines will benefit much with more low end grunt on ice or snow unless you stud the track with some real heavy grippers. I don't know what most snowmobiles use for the tracks width and length but at 20 inches wide and I think close to 50 inches on the ground I have about as much under me as most snow machines. Studs do add a bunch more grip but in the worst conditions they can dig a hole instead of get you out of one. I honestly think it is all about what you get yourself into and how you get out of it. Too much power or too much traction could probably tear the track to pieces if you push it too hard. I have had my Big Wheel Yamaha up to the sprocket in sticky mud and all I could do is go for help.

GAm
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Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #310 on: Feb 12, 2019, 05:18 PM »
Lol i just know that too small of jackshaft sprocket where the old snowmobile torque converter used to be with the original gearing from the snowmobile drive will burn up clutches and belts.i just need a ballpark of number of teeth to start with.i know the cvt drive is 10 tooth for 40 chain on most setups.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #311 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:13 PM »
Lol i just know that too small of jackshaft sprocket where the old snowmobile torque converter used to be with the original gearing from the snowmobile drive will burn up clutches and belts.i just need a ballpark of number of teeth to start with.i know the cvt drive is 10 tooth for 40 chain on most setups.

My buddies on the Yamaha TW forum helped me with the gear ratios once I got involved with these Big Wheel Yamaha's that have 2 chains and 4 sprockets. The final ratio to the ground was a bit mind boggling for me and I could change just one tooth on one sprocket and make a huge difference in the final drive. Jack Shafts change all the final drive ratios and I don't even know how to figure in the CVT belts that ride higher with engine RPMs. Back in the late 1960 s I used to be a real smart ass with this stuff now in my late 60 s I have become a real dumb ass. 14 teeth on the engine to 17 teeth on the inner jack shaft over to 13 teeth and back to 37 on the rear wheel and I get lost somewhere in there. My BW350 has a 530 size chain and sprockets on the inside and a 520 on the outside and I can't explain why. On my Polaris ATV/UTV machines they all had big rubber bands on the CVT pulleys and I never did figure them out and never did burn a belt.

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

Offline perchnut

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #312 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:15 PM »
'too small of jackshaft Sprocket'....no need to get personal now....  interesting Thread.  These machines are quite intriguing...I have a snowmobile that I use on the ice anywhere from 0-8 times per year, depending on ice, and almost zero trail riding.  Its a really nice sled, but not sure I would need all of that. 

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #313 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:24 PM »
My buddies on the Yamaha TW forum helped me with the gear ratios once I got involved with these Big Wheel Yamaha's that have 2 chains and 4 sprockets. The final ratio to the ground was a bit mind boggling for me and I could change just one tooth on one sprocket and make a huge difference in the final drive. Jack Shafts change all the final drive ratios and I don't even know how to figure in the CVT belts that ride higher with engine RPMs. Back in the late 1960 s I used to be a real smart ass with this stuff now in my late 60 s I have become a real dumb ass. 14 teeth on the engine to 17 teeth on the inner jack shaft over to 13 teeth and back to 37 on the rear wheel and I get lost somewhere in there. My BW350 has a 530 size chain and sprockets on the inside and a 520 on the outside and I can't explain why. On my Polaris ATV/UTV machines they all had big rubber bands on the CVT pulleys and I never did figure them out and never did burn a belt.

Gam
ive got a vintage bonanza mini that I geared totally wrong.i started out its maiden run flipping it over and on my a$$ on the pavement,got back on thinking I was just stupid and to much throttle and ill put my weight up front..umm no flipped it again..i literally cant ride it because it wheelies to easy.i think its 12 tooth clutch to a 27 tooth jackshaft sprocket,then main drive side is 10 to 70 tooth sprocket..doesn't help I took the 3 hp that the gearing was meant for and stuffed a modded 7hp Tecumseh in the little frame.its all motor now.my daughter always wants me to ride it and flip again.she named it the minibike of death.

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #314 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:33 PM »
I think Iím 12 tooth on the comet, going to 72 on the snowmobile jack shaft. I started with a lot smalle sprockets and eventually figured it out after burning one belt. Torque troque torque.

Offline Windburned

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #315 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:34 PM »


Love my snowdog!

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #316 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:35 PM »
My first real dirt bike was a Hodaka Ace 90 back around 1968. I wanted to be a wheelie king and did a bunch of sprocket changes. I don't remember the numbers but think I had a 55 on the rear and the only thing I could not keep on the seat was my own rear. I think I was wound as tight as the 90 cc engine could run at about 30 MPH and my buddies with trail 90s couldn't do very good wheelies but blew right past me once we hit the old RR bed. On the Yamaha TW200 forum they have posts in the technical section to figure out the final drive ratio and although it does not help with CVT trannys it sure can get you to a good combination.

Gam
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Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #317 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:36 PM »
Damn Doc, you just had to go and get all technical on us. I used to do all the sprocket play with my dirt bikes and to be honest I usually found the manufacturers got it as close to correct as most riders wanted them. I ride a Yamaha BW 350 these days that came with a 37 tooth rear wheel sprocket but I swapped it for a 43 tooth and those extra 6 teeth sure do make a world of difference but mostly in the low end grunt. Not sure if these track tow machines will benefit much with more low end grunt on ice or snow unless you stud the track with some real heavy grippers. I don't know what most snowmobiles use for the tracks width and length but at 20 inches wide and I think close to 50 inches on the ground I have about as much under me as most snow machines. Studs do add a bunch more grip but in the worst conditions they can dig a hole instead of get you out of one. I honestly think it is all about what you get yourself into and how you get out of it. Too much power or too much traction could probably tear the track to pieces if you push it too hard. I have had my Big Wheel Yamaha up to the sprocket in sticky mud and all I could do is go for help.

GAm
also rode dirtbikes my whole life,last bike was a 2002 honda xr400.it was a little low on torque with real tall gearing being a daul sport.and not very good on trails like that.16/54 gearing.i swapped out the the front sprocket to a 14 and left the back sprocket the same.front sprocket was easer to swap out.i think that was like adding a few teeth to the rear.so much more low end  torque.lost some mph but that's not needed on tight trails.2nd and 3rd gear riding instead of 1st and 2nd.

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #318 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:37 PM »
I think Iím 12 tooth on the comet, going to 72 on the snowmobile jack shaft. I started with a lot smalle sprockets and eventually figured it out after burning one belt. Torque troque torque.
thanks!!that's what I needed to know..dont need anymore extra sprockets laying around.

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #319 on: Feb 12, 2019, 06:44 PM »
ive had pretty good luck with the cheap china comet knockoff torque converter systems on the predator engines. ive installed 5 on the baja warrior and baja heat minis.probably use one of those on my modded briggs to start with.they have 30 and 40 series comet knock offs. 

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #320 on: Feb 12, 2019, 07:20 PM »
ive had pretty good luck with the cheap china comet knockoff torque converter systems on the predator engines. ive installed 5 on the baja warrior and baja heat minis.probably use one of those on my modded briggs to start with.they have 30 and 40 series comet knock offs.

Please send me a link to the 40 series knock offs

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #321 on: Feb 12, 2019, 07:53 PM »
My bad.i thought the 1Ē shaft kits were 40 series but are just hd 30 kits.dirt cheap tho.ive ran these on predator 6.5 engines with no problems.but that on fat tire minibikes.https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F181538048087

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #322 on: Feb 13, 2019, 08:53 AM »
My bad.i thought the 1Ē shaft kits were 40 series but are just hd 30 kits.dirt cheap tho.ive ran these on predator 6.5 engines with no problems.but that on fat tire minibikes.https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F181538048087

I would NOT use the 30 series if I were you. 40 series is what I should have done. As much as myne functions, I usually run without the cover to keep the heat down. Use in warmer temperatureís is risking the belt even at my current gear ratios. Also Iím worried I am wearing out the weights on the inside of the clutches prematurely. Also Iíve broken the end of one of the springs on the driver which caused me to loose neutral. I fixed it by just bending a new ďhookĒ end on the spring and re-connecting it.

Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #323 on: Feb 13, 2019, 09:00 AM »
I would NOT use the 30 series if I were you. 40 series is what I should have done. As much as myne functions, I usually run without the cover to keep the heat down. Use in warmer temperatureís is risking the belt even at my current gear ratios. Also Iím worried I am wearing out the weights on the inside of the clutches prematurely. Also Iíve broken the end of one of the springs on the driver which caused me to loose neutral. I fixed it by just bending a new ďhookĒ end on the spring and re-connecting it.
they do have just the knockoff 40 series clutches and torque converters on ebay,i may buy the cheap 30 series kit and use the knock off 40 series clutch.im not paying up for the comet tav2 system its to expensive and almost identical to the china kits.i have to run all my minis without a clutch cover due to heat or  drill a big hole in the cover at the clutch.

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #324 on: Feb 19, 2019, 07:52 PM »
I snagged this off kijiji, installed it last Friday night in about 3 hours by myself. What a difference.




Offline 6x6

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #325 on: Feb 20, 2019, 08:06 AM »
So I have a brand new Snowdog.  Love it!  The only negative I have found so far is the sled.  On glare ice, is there a way to make it track better? 

We donít get a lot of glare ice here, there is always some snow with the exception of my favorite lake!  Just a lot of issues with he sled sliding out as we were moving around. 

If the snow dog were studded, resulting in a better track, would that work? Seemed like the sled had a mind of its own regardless of what the dog was doing.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #326 on: Feb 20, 2019, 08:13 AM »
So I have a brand new Snowdog.  Love it!  The only negative I have found so far is the sled.  On glare ice, is there a way to make it track better? 

We donít get a lot of glare ice here, there is always some snow with the exception of my favorite lake!  Just a lot of issues with he sled sliding out as we were moving around. 

If the snow dog were studded, resulting in a better track, would that work? Seemed like the sled had a mind of its own regardless of what the dog was doing.

Ice screws in the dog's track make a big difference in how it handles glare ice but no difference for the sled. I bought these, cut them in half, and installed two on the back of my dog sled and two on the back of my Otter shanty sled. Both sleds stay right behind the dog now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kimpex-Carbide-Runners-Wear-Bar-90-DEG-Ski-Doo-440-467-470-500-580-600-670-780/143075696728?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
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Offline 6x6

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #327 on: Feb 20, 2019, 09:09 AM »
I was wondering if these would work.  Thanks a ton!

Offline joefishmore

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #328 on: Feb 20, 2019, 05:28 PM »
Howmuch gas does the 13hp standard hpld ?

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #329 on: Feb 20, 2019, 07:32 PM »
Howmuch gas does the 13hp standard hpld ?

Nowhere in my owners manual or other paperwork does it give a fuel capacity amount. I am sure it holds at least 1 gallon but it could be a little more.

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

 



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