thanks for the info folks! I ended up going to van horn in springfield, busting my butt and dropping my unsipped coffee the second I stepped on the ice. Drilled a hole, ice was only about 3 inches and I was already disgusted with myself, so I packed up, went home and pouted to the old lady, who was pretty unsympathetic. And JSS, im down for sunday, drop me a pm and we can go from there.