Pre-stressing skis for Smitty Sled

[buz23]

So the downhill skis I found at the City Mission have a pronounced bow - they probably are all like that so that for skiing there is some weight out on the ends so you can turn.

But my Smitty load isn't enough to straighten the skis.  It rides on two places on each ski, is hard to turn, and actually crabs when I pull it.

Has anyone pre-stressed the skis so that they ride flat on the ice?   Seems like it would improve things.  A 2x4 along the ski won't do it because they are quite a bit thicker under the boot.

What have you done??

[BIGCREW]

I have never seen a pair of skis that had that much of a bow to them that wouldn't lay flat with a little weight to them,maybe they are made that way for a specific type of sking or snow condition,maybe try a piece of angle iron on top to pull them flat would work

[Ole Polanski]

Hey Buz23 
   Did you leave them full length??  Forgive me, but what does crabbin mean?? Is your rope tied to the sled or to the tips of the skis??  Have read lots of post claimin ski tips are better! You caught my attention since I haven't found any cheap?free ski's with ENOUGH bow!  Good luck and stay safe!!  O.P.   

[buz23]

By crabbing I mean that when I look at the track of the sled there are four sets of tracks, not two.   Because of the bow each ski has only two contact points (on thin snow or ice)  The skis are full length, 6 1/2 feet long, they weren't free ($5.00).  Angle iron probably won't work because like I said the top of the skis is not uniform thickness.  I was thinking of running a two by four between the front and rear uprights and then maybe jamming something between the two by four and the thickest part of the ski.

[Svengalli]

Crabbing is likely more a result of non parallel skis and/or perpendicular cross members like a car that dog tracks due to a bent frame/messed suspension.  One of my smitty's tracked slightly until I redid the back cross member and is turned out it was warped badly.

Make sure you pull from the ski tips.  I cannot stress enough how much of a difference that makes in turning.

[Baetis62]

Buz
While it doesn't really matter to us fisherman that particular design phenomenon is called "camber" and the ski manufacturers spend hours and hours searching for just the right amount of "camber" and it's close relative "rocker".  Mind numbing stuff really.  25 years ago (before I returned back to my ice fishing Wisconsin roots) I skied for a living here in CO.  About 120 days/year.  I still payed for my skis every year but we got proform pricing and we purchased them directly from manufacturer's reps.  Learned more than I really needed to know but damn if it isn't paying off!  While conceivably you could try and wear out the camber in your smitty sled skis with some perfect combination of heat, weight and time the easy answer is to:

Step 1...grab your sawzall and hack off the back portion of each ski.  My smitty has the tips out in front of my jet sled about 6" and the tails are removed about the same or little less in the back.  That reduces the linear amount of edge designed to make skis track in a straight line. 

Step 2...have your tow rope tied to or through an eyebolt in the tips of the skis rather than directly to the box on top.  It will be much more responsive to your input as you pull it along.

Step 3...mount your skis to your sled as close to parallel as possible. Coors light helps.

Step 4...find really worn out POS skis for the project.  Camber wears out over time and use.

Step 5... Grab a channel locks and try to pull off the metal edging embedded into the base of the ski.  This can be pretty difficult.  After a six pack I gave up but it might work for you.

 Any/all of these should alleviate most of your problems.  Tight lines!!

[DEADONDYLAN]

I weighted down the middle where bindings were,put 2x6 along side ski, scribed line then cut 2x6 at that line,when it all went together skis are flat . hope this helps

[DAPOS]

sounds more like you've got X-country or telemark skiis than downhill. I've never seen anything but flat downhills.........

[Eaglecrg]

The location of the supports may affect the ski's response to the weight as well.  Are your support blocks over (or close to) the ends of the skiis?  If so, there is no weight on the middle of the ski which would remove some of the camber.  I also would theorize that letting the tips stick out more from the front of the smitty sled would allow the skiis to ride over deeper snow as opposed to punching through it.  Just my thoughts.

[Nor Easter]

I weighted down the middle where bindings were,put 2x6 along side ski, scribed line then cut 2x6 at that line,when it all went together skis are flat . hope this helps

^^^This^^^ Worked great. I used 2x4's and elevated them to the height of the thinnest part of the ski so I saved strength in the 2x4. 2x6's would have been more weight.

[kpd145]

Step 3...mount your skis to your sled as close to parallel as possible. Coors light helps.

Best direction I have read all day   

[BlackDucksAndBrownDogs]

But my Smitty load isn't enough to straighten the skis.

It's obvious you need more gear.  Luckily everything is on close-out right now.

[Ice Scratcher]

Just to add...

You want to mount the skis in the middle, only where the boot bindings would mount. The curve is important, it allows the ski to float, and also acts like a leaf spring, absorbing bumps (no more broken mantles!)



<*)))>{

[buz23]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  The skis are definitely downhill, Elan Dual Reflex Cap 5.5i ("Made in Slovenia").  I have eyelets in the ski tips and the ropes go through these but are attached further back. 

I like the idea of moving the weight closer to the binding area but am concerned that the whole thing won't be as strong.  I want cross pieces front and back but I guess they can be structural and not weight bearing.  Seems like almost anything I think of will add to the weight of the empty sled, something I don't want to do.

Maybe this is a project for the summer.  I'm still fishin'.

[Ice Scratcher]

I like the idea of moving the weight closer to the binding area but am concerned that the whole thing won't be as strong.

They are strongest, just as I described, that is what they are made to do... A 200lb guy downhill skiing, doing 50mph and turning will create more force than you will be able to recreate with a walking sled... I built mine strong enough to be machine towable FWIW...

Also if you already have it attached at the ends, how could the bow come out, it is pinched, no?

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[SeisMec]

(Image removed from quote.)

@ Ice Scratcher   Do you have any more photos of this sled on IS. I would like to see more of the interior and mounts!

[buz23]

They are strongest, just as I described, that is what they are made to do... A 200lb guy downhill skiing, doing 50mph and turning will create more force than you will be able to recreate with a walking sled... I built mine strong enough to be machine towable FWIW...

Also if you already have it attached at the ends, how could the bow come out, it is pinched, no?

<*)))>{

I agree they work for a skier but the situation is a little different.  There is play in the system - the skier's legs can bend and twist some, which takes some of the stress off the attachment points.  There is no play at all in the attachment of the uprights to the skis on a Smitty, and that is my concern.

Rethinking one of the earlier poster's suggestion, perhaps a length of angle iron inboard between the front and rear upright on each side, fastened after the ski was flattened, would straighten the thing out.  Maybe aluminum would be strong enough to do this.  I sense a trip to HD, and I can drool over the M18 drill while I'm there.

[Baetis62]

@ Ice Scratcher   Do you have any more photos of this sled on IS. I would like to see more of the interior and mounts!

x2 Scratcher...sweet rig you have there

[Ice Scratcher]

x2 Scratcher...sweet rig you have there

Thanks guys, I made it all from scratch, the bottom is 1/4 inch flooring plywood, all the joints are rabbet joints, in other words, where the boards cross each other, each board still has half of its thickness..

It also has an extension I can stick into the ski brackets for additional wind protection..

I don't have any pics of the construction but here are a few of it in action...

Here is a better picture of the mounts, welded up from bent up flat and angle iron..




Some action pictures...



Here it is loaded up with all my gear and enough stuff to take out 4 newbies...




Out on Erie just a few days ago...







This is my second sled I have built, I put the boat front on this second version so it rises up over the drifts and not through them... I have been using this style of sled for about 20 years. It fits my clam 5600... I know the sled floats some, I have come off some pretty messed up shore ice late season.. It weighs 60lbs, pulls really easy, and is very quite sliding across the ice, unlike the big plastic tub sleds... Deep snow can be a challenge at times... I was originally built for walking out miles on Erie, and built strong enough for me to rid in if I was lucky enough to hitch a ride... 
The best thing about such a big sled is you can stay really mobile, because you don't have to pack everything away.. I can leave a live minnow on, put it in the bucket, and just set that pole/poles next to the bait bucket.. Just set everything back in the sled wherever and GO!

<*)))>{

[buz23]

Just an update -  I ended up temporarily weighting the sled down so the skis were flat on the floor, and then screwed a length of scrap base molding between the uprights on each side.  It stays flat and tracks much better on the ice, and the base molding added little weight.  Had it out on fresh snow the other day at Lake George and the skis were only going down an inch or two (but I pack light - no shelter).

[rgfixit]

You might be overthinking this just a bit. Go to Goodwill, spend another $5 and get some different skis.

Rg

[DAPOS]

I had always "stressed" out over getting the skis to lie flat. This year, I tried something new, and bowed them up slightly at the ends. It makes turning a piece of cake now, and it tracks perfectly! FWIW......