Flat Fish of Lake Champlain in Decline?

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

Here's what I found...

"Each spawning black crappie female produces between 11,000 to 188,000 eggs, while
each white crappie female produces 2,900 to 91,700 eggs."

"Bluegill females may spawn six to eight times a season producing as many as 20,000 eggs per spawn."

[troutcrazy]

The problem with trusting the regulations and calling it good, is that regulations are almost never made exclusively by biologists.  Politicians are involved, and pressure from commercial fishermen is involved too.  The biologists don't get their say until it's too late and the fishery has collapsed, like cod in the Grand Banks.

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

Hey Harkness...

Calm the heck down! Someone wanted some reproduction numbers, and I googled it. If you want to be judge and jury of the information I found, then look it up yourself.

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

My apologies Harkness,

I guess I was feeling a little pissy this morning. I fished 5 days straight, and decided to take today off. I really wasn't prepared for fishing withdrawals. 

[Troutmagnet]

To keep this debate going...I don't get a chance to fish the big lake more than 3-4 times a year. I feel there should be a creel limit for most species that are being targeted. May be the creels for some species could be set at 75 or 100. My preference would be a cap of no more than 50 for any species. and commercial fishing exemptions should come with a hefty price tag for a permit, IMO.

[rbobby]

Is there a commercial fishing license needed for selling fish?

[Troutmagnet]

Don't think so. They just have to abide by the regular fishing rules. I personally feel that fish should be handled similar to wildlife which is heavily protected. I don't mind some high creel limits for the most plentiful species...I don't think no creel limits is appropriate anymore given the vast advancements in fishing methods.

[rboot]

No special license needed to sell fish. 

[slimeslopper]

that's why they call it fishing, and not catching.  I'm also not hitting the perch numbers i hit last year, nowhere near.  weather, wind and the ice all have somethign to do with it.  interesting to note, been ice fishing with one of my best friends for about 11 years now.the last two years, we've used the exact same tackle, wooden hand jig, flat scooter, number 4 hooks above and below with minnows, and yellow 20 lb line.  He STILL out fishes me 2 to 4 times.  we might be 5 feet away, and he will still catch 2-4 times as many, averagin about 3x.  yes he does keep smaller perch than i, and that accounts for some of difference.  i still think he can throw a bare hook in a puddle and pull; out fish.  some folks are better at it than others...

[bow65lb]

Well said Slimesplopper... I fished with my best buddy a few weeks back and he outfished me 4 - 1 (we were fishing flat fish). We were maybe 50 yards apart and he even called me in to fish some of his holes... The fish are there, just need to use the right technique...

[MRwalleye]

To keep this debate going...I don't get a chance to fish the big lake more than 3-4 times a year. I feel there should be a creel limit for most species that are being targeted. May be the creels for some species could be set at 75 or 100. My preference would be a cap of no more than 50 for any species. and commercial fishing exemptions should come with a hefty price tag for a permit, IMO.

Yeah that's a great idea then we can have too many fish, there will not be any feed for them and they will all be smaller. The limit's are fine. The fish are there and people should just put in their time to find them. If you want to only keep 50 then great it will be more for someone else. If someone want to fill the back of a pickup then I guess they will make a s**t load of money.
Guess what. The fish aren't going to waste. Doesn't matter where there shipped to. Not much of the fish and seafood at the markets aren't from Lake Champlain and a lot of people that are mad about our fish going out of state are eating shrimp, lobster and salmon from another state. Sound's like a lot of jealous people are mad about the "commercial fishermen" doing better then them. Hard to catch anything sitting in front of the computer. I bet there the same people that are mad about not seeing any deer, but only road hunt. Got to get in the woods!

[B425]

Interesting post..But guy must take in the condition of the lake.. this year much ticker ice then normal..lake level.. and what i have seen from past years... with the flooding we had..the lake change drasticly, less grass where there was grass and so on.. the lake bottom changes... so fish movement has changed also. So yes the guys that do there homework properly catches more fish. Also the cormorants population is increasing each year.. they probably catch and eat more fish then  any fisherman out here... Tell them to stop eating the fish...lol

[ice fiend]

Commercial fishing is nothing new.  It's been going on for years and years and there's still lots of panfish to be caught....year after year.  The target species are prolific.  There's a reason some species are off limits for buying and selling and some are not.  I appreciate genuine concern and NO, I don't think everybody that shows concern is doing it because they can't catch fish. 

But I do believe that some of the comments are coming from anglers that are struggling and think it's because the fish are gone.  The fish aren't gone.  Some days there are fish swimming all over the place and they simply won't bite.  I see it on the camera.  I don't claim to be all knowing about the biology of the Lake.  I leave that up to the professionals.  In my opinion, as long as it's legal to sell fish, I have no problem with it.  I trust F&W has the big picture in mind and will make changes if they are necessary.

agreed

[Hess]

We have had a family camp on Lake Champlain for over 100 years and in my personal opinion, commercial fishing in the lake should be banned and panfish (perch, crappie, bluegills, etc...) should have a 25 fish daily limit -- period!!

[Troutmagnet]

seriously?!?! what do you think our lakes looked like and the fish that where in them before European HUMANS came along and recked everything?!?  must have been all stunted tiny little fish, right?!  no matter all the history books on champlain talking about giant salmons and runs so thick you could walk across them and huge eyes and log sized pike ..... nope ..... without people to thin em out how would these fish EVERY grow!??!?

i guess that's why people pay such big bucks to fly to the middle of nowhere in Canadian north to fish giant slab brookies and monster lakers in the north west territories and monster pike in saskachwan --- and more huge walleye for shore lunches than you can shake a forked stick ..,,, because we all know those fish are so big because they got heavy fishin pressure and the people are doing a good job keeping em thinned out

THAT my friend is the weakest argument to keep commercial fishin Ive ever heard

Thanks Harkness...you bring up some very good points!!!

[perchhauler]

well it seems that for the most part the sunnies have not shown up in most bays as they used to do,  and the few that have are in a lot lower numbers than in years past. after talking with some other fishermen, the conclusion many have came to is that the white perch are too blame As they are eating the eggs and fry of the sunnies, gills and crappies.  I chased them most of the winter and my catch was down about 50% from the last couple of years. And no, I don't believe it was my fishing ability as I can keep up with the best of them...

[Lord_of_the_Perch]

PerchHauler,
I agree that the sunfish did not show up in big numbers; or for very long in the ussual spots. Might be low water level at freeze up; or thicker than normal ice. I actually did better than the last two years; but it required me to think outside the box.