Flasher power

[Gillgrabber]

I went to a seminar yesterday and heard another guide tell me fish can feel the signal of a flasher.  He claims it often scares them off and you should consider turning your flasher off once you locate them.  He said doing so can drastically increase your catch rate.  I've heard this same statement from 3 different guides now.  I know this topic has been discussed before and many of you feel your catch rates are increased when using a flasher - I do too; however; I can't speak to what would happen if I turned my flasher off as I usually leave mine on. 
So now I've got a stupid question:  would using a lower powered flasher result in a signal the fish are less likely to feel?  It seems the trend lately has been to produce flashers with more power.  I'm wondering if it makes a difference.  Thoughts?

[bpiatt]

I personally have never experienced fish fleeing from my flasher. I am able to mark them and consistently watch them come into my jig. I have never marked fish and then just have them instantly clear out, unless they are crappie or gills and a pike or muskie rolls in.

[blufloyd]

My sibmarine buddy who claims to know way too much on sonor sez power is your enemy with sonor.
Less power better imaging.  Makes those red box claims seem silly.

[bpiatt]

My sibmarine buddy who claims to know way too much on sonor sez power is your enemy with sonor.
Less power better imaging.  Makes those red box claims seem silly.

I don't see how this is true, more power can penetrate deeper depths and pick up more things, gain is for tuning out how much information you receive. That's why if your fishing shallow you use very little gain and if your fishing very deep you turn the gain up. That's also why vexilar lags in very deep water.

[Reel_Force]

Ya need to look at the transducer. "Most" transducers in the industry operate at 200 kilohertz and are made to put out 300 watts to 400 watts of power. This means that if 400 watts of power is transmitted to the transducer from the sonar unit, then the transducer will put out 400 watts.

Now if we hit this same transducer with 1,000 watts of power, it is still only going to put out 400 watts. If we deliver 5,000 watts to it, it will still only put out 400 watts. Any extra wattage over 400 watts delivered by your sonar unit does nothing to improve the signal on your sonar!

[hnd]

gee i wonder what brand of flashers these guides use?...

[ice dawg]

Here's a little ditty I found while playing on the internet..........

Transducer Basics 


What is a Transducer?
A transducer is attached to your fish finder with a small cable. It takes the electrical signal from your fish finder and turns it into a sound wave and beams it down in the shape of a cone. The wider the cone angle, the wider the coverage.

Each depth transducer contains a piezo ceramic element that works like a loudspeaker and microphone. It converts the electric energy from your fishfinder’s transmitter into a high frequency ultrasound wave. This sound wave travels through the water until it hits an object such as a fish or the sea-bed, which then bounces the wave back to the transducer. The time lapse between transmitting the signal and receiving it back is used to measure the distance to the object.

Quality of Transducer Elements
A poor quality transducer is inefficient at transmitting signal in the water. A weaker signal means poor fish detection, low definition and poor depth capabilities.

Output Wattage
The depth your fishfinder will reach will be affected by water temperature, salinity, frequency, and power output which is measured in Watts. The following general guidelines will give you the maximum depth that can be reached:

100W = 400ft Max Depth

200W = 500ft Max Depth

300W = 600ft Max Depth

600W = 800 - 1200ft Max Depth

1KW = 1800 - 2500ft Max Depth

2KW = 1500 - 4000ft Max Depth


Most recreational fishfinders come with a transducer with a wattage rating that matches the output wattage of the fish finder.

However, when purchasing a transducer separately, make sure the power output of the fish finder unit is less than or equal to the wattage of the transducer, otherwise the transducer may be damaged
 

[NITE-BITE]

No doubt fish can sense the transducer signal.
Never noticed it scaring them away.

If this is so, why put rattles in lures?

[bpiatt]

Ya need to look at the transducer. "Most" transducers in the industry operate at 200 kilohertz and are made to put out 300 watts to 400 watts of power. This means that if 400 watts of power is transmitted to the transducer from the sonar unit, then the transducer will put out 400 watts.

Now if we hit this same transducer with 1,000 watts of power, it is still only going to put out 400 watts. If we deliver 5,000 watts to it, it will still only put out 400 watts. Any extra wattage over 400 watts delivered by your sonar unit does nothing to improve the signal on your sonar!

If you take a head unit that is putting out 2000 watts and attach a transducer that can only handle 400 watts you are going to ruin the transducer. The head units wattage must be less than or equal to the transducer.

[Buck1985]

This is an interesting topic, makes a guy wonder

[ice dawg]

No doubt fish can sense the transducer signal.
Never noticed it scaring them away.

If this is so, why put rattles in lures?

If you swim under a boat when the sonar is running you can actually hear the bongs from the fish finder. I would imagine fish could be spooked by it if they were being pounded by sonars. I have never noticed fish leaving because I'm using my flasher though.

[Buck1985]

Fouls it change the attitude of the fish, like the non aggressive fish during a lull?

[inHISgrip]

found this thought I would pass it along....


Over the last few decades, ice fishing has advanced so much, the technology available today is incredible. One of the most important pieces of ice fishing equipment you can have now is a good flasher. There are two names leading the market in flashers and they are Vexilar and MarCum. These are both good units having much to offer. I have used both units and I have fished with them side by side. The units I fished next to each other were the Vexilar FL-18 pack and the MarCum LX-3 pro pack. Both of these units are multiple colored flashers. Before I get into my personal thoughts and opinions on these units, I will discuss them both briefly.

The MarCum runs on 1,500 watts of power. It has an adjustable 5ft. window of zoom. This zoom is great because it allows you to zoom in on your target. For example, if you’re walleye fishing, you can zoom in on the bottom and if you’re crappie fishing, you can zoom in on the suspended fish. This zoom can be adjusted anywhere from the surface of the water the bottom of the lake you’re focusing on. The MarCum unit also comes with a unit cover to protect from outside elements, as well as an arm to hold the transducer.

The Vexilar runs on 400 watts of power. It does have a zoom, but it is not adjustable. The Vexilar zoom is stuck to the bottom. There is a cover for the Vexilar, but it is sold separately. The transducer on the Vexilar is attached to a cylinder shaped float, this way the transducer can be in your hole and the unit can be positioned whereever it is most comfortable for you to see while fishing.

When I first used these units, I was guiding in Minnesota and working with a pro shop out there. When the MarCum LX-3 first came out, I was given a unit to test out on the ice. A close friend on mine, who owned the pro shop, came with me and brought along a Vexilar FL-18 to fish with. We were in a fish house that was 18 or 20ft. long. We were sitting on a large mud flat walleye fishing. He was fishing on one side of the fish house and I was fishing on the other side. There were fish all over the flat, so all of our chances were equal. As we started fishing, my buddy was catching some really nice walleye, 22-26 inches and I was catching walleye anywhere from 12-16 inches. At first, I thought it was my presentation, so I switched up my gear to the exact same set up he was using and still, no big fish. We decided to try and switch holes, so we picked up our equipment and switched sides. Unbelievable! I still could not catch a mature walleye to save me. Sure enough, in the hole I was just fishing in, my buddy began to catch the big fish again. Now I was starting to get a little fired up about this, so we switched our gear again, but this time, we also traded flashers. I now had the Vexilar FL-18 and he had the MarCum LX-3, and what do you know, I caught a mature fish just like that!

In the end, we came to the conclusion that the 1,500 watts of power from the MarCum was affecting the lateral line of the mature fish. I used the MarCum for a short period of time after that and it never did seem to affect the crappie or perch like it had the walleye. But ever since my walleye incident, I had to stick with the Vexilar FL-18. Since that day, the Vexilar FL-18 is the only flasher I will use. The 400 watts of power is more than enough.

Both brands came out with new flashers, the Vexilar FL-20 and the MarCum LX-5. The FL-20 stuck to the 400 watts, the LX-5 went up to 2,000 watts. I’m not saying Marcum is a bad unit, they are very good units. The power that they present is just something to think about. More power doesn’t necessarily mean more fish. Good Luck out on the ice.

[esox_magnum]

If more power was against the angler why do pro fishermen use boat units with 5 to 10 times the power of a ice flasher and stillcatch fish jigging off the boat....Many use these same units on the ice to.... Never noticed a decrease in catch rates since owning a Marcum and ice many nice eyes every season... In fact I would say my catch rates have gone up since dumping my Vex's and going to all Marcum....

[Artjr]

well new to this but I did notice the world record caught on the PK lure they had a Marcum flasher kinda shoots his idea in the butt. Or I guess that world record could have been the dink in that school of walleye down there? I am sure fish can feel the power!! Maybe somedays it feels good and somedays it don't?? LOL All I know is I GOT THE THE POWER!!!

[inHISgrip]

Looks like the power does not matter.....

James Hoist
full-time fishing guide and host of In depth outdoors TV show



Please understand I respect your opinion and I'm not trying to be contrary but my thoughts are.... your buddy outfished you. And that's it. It had nothing to do with the flasher you used. You switched flashers and caught one nice walleye. That's coincidence and nothing more. You might have been fishing the same lures but we've all seen countless examples of how one angler catches fish hand over fist while the other fishing the same baits nearby is left holding an empty bag.

For example... three weeks ago Scott and I had a buddy along fishing with us while we filmed. We hammered big walleyes all weekend long. Our companion never iced a walleye over two days of fishing. And he was using our equipment.

But let's get back to the claim that the sonar pulse from one unit has less of an effect on fish and thereby improving your success.

This is a claim, coming from a specific camp of sponsored anglers, that has been circling around in print and on the web for nearly a decade. When I hear a claim like that it is one that I'm going to investigate.

The first time I did any testing of this was on mille lacs back in the 90's when the Clearwater Classic first came out and I started to hear the "too much power" spin.

The Clearwater was an innovative unit in the day. 1000 watts of power. Greyscale read-out, etc., etc.

I set-up inside a weedline in 5 feet of water in an area I'd had success catching some big walleyes in the last couple of hours before dark. I was fishing out of a pair of 10" holes inside of an ice house so I could see any fish coming and going. I was not fishing with a flasher at the time. It was in the house in the hole but it was not turned on as I didn't feel it was needed as I could clearly make out any object within my field of view. And I have to admit the "too much power" mantra coming out in the press had me concerned that my Clearwater would limit my success.

I had 3 big walleyes come in that night to investigate baits. On this night none of these fish were in the eating mood but they would linger around the hole in plain site. After a few minutes of trying to convince these fish to eat a shiner in one hole and a jigging spoon in the other with no success I decided to turn on the Clearwater to see if I could get back at those fish for the heartache they were causing me.

So I cranked the power "on" knob and waited for the fish under the hole to kick on the afterburners and head for the hills.

And the fish did... nothing. So I cycled the power on and off. Still nothing.

I left the unit on. Fish swam in and out of the transducer cone. No impact at all. And this was in 5' of water.

Since that time I've run this test when fishing an LX-5 with 2000 watts of power. With the walleye directly beneath the hole while watching the event on underwater camera I cycled the power on and off on the flasher just trying to get any kind of response. A gill flair? A tensing of the fins? A twitch of the eye? Nothing. These fish were completely oblivious to these pulses of sound. Will all fish react this way? I have no idea. I haven't tested all fish in all situations. But I have done quite a bit of testing and for the life of me I can't get a single fish to even acknowledge that I'm wasting good fishing time messing with sonars when I should be trying to catch these fish!

In direct contrast to the author's sentiments I have caught many fish in shallow water with 2000 watts of power "banging" away. Put a good presentation in front of their noses when they're in a mood to feed... and you'll catch a bunch of fish. Put a sloppy presentation down there and you'll be lucky to land anything, regardless of how aggressive they are at the time.

I've also done this test with 2 handheld units, one from MarCum and one from Nature Vision (some of the handheld units have 4,000 watts of power!) as well as with one Lowrance unit converted for ice use. I have yet to see any kind of response, positive or negative, from any fish species to the sound pulses created by any unit under any circumstances.

I've even placed an Lx-5 transducer in a 5 gallon bucket loaded with fatheads and the minnows are oblivious to the sound pulses. They swim under and around the transducer as if it isn't even in the water.

But as an interesting aside... you can cycle the power on a high powered transducer on and off until you're blue in the face and you'll never get a response from a fish in any way... but if you crunch of chunk of crusty snow as you lean over to mess with that flasher... that same fish that ignored the sonar pulse will be gone in a flas

[threewack]

The only thing I have noticed is It attracts other fisherman, Hey you markin anything!

[inHISgrip]

That's for sure......... .  That is funny.

[esox_magnum]

As a guy who has run both low and high powered boat units my conclusion is the cheap low powered units are a good bottom finder and the higher end high powered units are fishfinders.... Just my experience and why I now run 2 high end units on the boat...Do your own testing and see what your results are, untill you have experience with both units all your going by is hearsay....

[bpiatt]

I personally believe that this whole "too much power" thing is an attempt by vexilar to make people buy their products. Vexilar has lost a lot of customers to MarCum and Humminbird and this might be something they and their pro staff are putting out there to make people think the higher powered units scare fish. I think its rediculous, another thing I think is rediculous is that how come vexilar units have to cut their power in half down to 200 watts in order to fish shallow or in weeds? Marcum and bird units have no problem and they are using more than 10x the power. I think its obvious more power is better, every single manufacturer of fishing electronics is going with more power except vexilar. Vexilar is still doing the same thing they were 15 years ago, sure it works, but does it work as good as the other brands?

[Artjr]

Well I never Ice Fished before but I have done a lot of compition hunting with dogs and served as a field trial judge. What I found was the top end high powered dogs always won and the low powered dogs owners always said something like "But mine is a meat dog" Which I never understood cause that dog just treed 4 coons and yours treed zero? If you was after meat you would be one hungry boy?? Just away for people to make themselves feel good when theirs is not as good. Kind of like "It ain't the size of the worm thing" yea right!!

[JimQ]

We need an Electrical Engineer that is familiar with sonar system design.

This whole "power" thing has me baffled.

By definition "watts" is a measure of power that equals Volts x Amps.

Now we know we're using a 12V battery (usually a 9Ah battery) to power these things.

So that would mean if the a sonar unit had a 400W output at 12V it would be consuming 33A.  Your 9Ah battery would last about 16 minutes.

Then, how about these 2000Watt claims.  166Amps (You'd need battery cables to power the darn thing!) your 9Ah battery would be done in 3 minutes!

I guess a "Sonar Watt" is not the same as a real world Watt in the real world.  Then you've got them talking Peak to Peak (PtP) and Root Mean Square(RMS).  None of these values add up to me.  But I'm no Sonar Engineer or Marketing Guru... 

Would someone who knows what their talking about please explain this to me...

Q

[Woodland]

watts are only as important as the sensitivity of the receiver... i work with satellite imagery and is the same concept as signal/noise ratio. you can increase this ratio (a good thing) by having a better receiver or by increasing the signal.

[mdaniels]

It seems there are a lot of people on this forum a lot smarter than me.  This is an interesting topic.

[Artjr]

I am so cornfused. This whole who got more amps and my power cord is bigger than yours and I have more watts my transducer is more sensative has got to stop! Your upsetting us kids. Now I am worried if my Marcum is too big what if the fish won't like it? What if the fish make fun of me? What if the other ice fisherman laugh at me or say bad things about me? See what you have started? Now I am worried about all my stuff!!! Are my jigs the right ones are my rods the right ones what if they are the wrong colors it goes on and on and on!!! I am going to my ice shanty and cry!!!! Oh but wait its probably not right either!!!! I hate Vexilar and Marcum!!

[Woodland]

I hate Vexilar and Marcum!!

So you are a humminbird guy?

[Artjr]

No I this will be my first year and I just bought a Marcum VX1 Pro but all these people fighting over too much too little has me all upset     Sounds like a junior high locker room. I think the too little guys are trying to make up for something....

[dcso3009]

I too know very little about all of these claims.  What I do know is I will keep my little underpowered Vexilar.  It just works... for ke at least.

[da man cave shack]

This solves it all. If whatever you use and how you use it is catching fish and it works. KEEP DOING IT! 

[ice dawg]