Author Topic: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?  (Read 28681 times)

Offline eriksat1

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How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« on: Jan 13, 2011, 12:43 PM »
Back when I had a lot of spare time I used to make my own jigs, it wasn't hard. I had a lead melting pot and some molds. But how in the world do they make tungsten jigs? Lead melts at about 621 f and tungsten melts at about 6,192 f **censored** how do they do it without melting the hook? Or they really are not made out of tungsten?

Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 13, 2011, 01:05 PM »
After some long searching I came upon this info. about tungsten jigs.

"blankity blank ** buys their jigs (the Fiskas) from an overseas source. The company marketing the Skandia jigs is doing the same thing. Fiskas/Skandia/etc. all source their tungsten jig heads from China. Every one of these companies buys cast tungsten heads from China, then solders in their hooks (typically Japanese Hyabusa or a similar brand), and paints or metal plates them. Fiskas does not cast their own tungsten - as mentioned before, it's a very specialized casting process. I've looked into the chinese foundries casting tungsten, and they are not interested in talking to you unless you are sourcing 10 thousand plus pieces as an initial order."

Yes the melting temp for lead is 621 F and the melting temp for tungsten is over 6,000 F

I guess this answers my own question about making my own tungsten jigs.

Offline Scott Steil

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 13, 2011, 01:11 PM »
I have often wondered the same thing.  But as you are finding out, the folks that sell tunsten jigs are not actually casting it themselves and thus I have come to the conclusion that there are just a few specific companies that do the casting and the rest buy from them and then "finish" the product.

Offline igorart7

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 13, 2011, 01:12 PM »
Cheap tungsten jigs by cold pressing or casting, mixing with "other glue components".
As a disadvantage the average density of jig is a little more than lead ones.
So that's why those do not vibrate in water column well.
It's a key element in small jigs called marmishka.

You can buy proper tungsten jigs from Russia.
They have technologies to make jigs from solid tungsten.
They drill small holes in the body of jigs. And insert hooks into it. But not weld hook into.
They are world leaders in those technologies.
As a matter of fact tungsten jigs were invented in Russia by enthusiasts like we are.

Here is the website of one of their manufacturer.
http://tulskay-mormyshka.ru/mor.html

Russian even have jigs are made from osmium. Osmium has even much bigger density.
So jig vibrates much more naturally in the water column. And catches better fish. But it too expensive.

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 13, 2011, 01:31 PM »
Well, if you have $100 for research and development... that would be for 1 lb.

Here's a source for tungsten spheres:

http://www.tungsten-spheres.com/inventory.html

Then you can start drilling and soldering!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 13, 2011, 03:18 PM »
I just ordered some Mormyshka tungsten jigs from Russia the one's with no hook eye the line goes straight through the jig head. Pricey but if they work good add it to long list of must have ice fishing stuff that I never want to tally up. 12 jigs $28.75 with shipping

Offline Pork

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 13, 2011, 03:29 PM »
ericsat1, if you don;t mind me asking, how'd you order?
email?
phone call?

Just wondering the easiest way around the language barrier....
I was confused enough w/ the weights listed on their web site.
As for sizes, are they just listed in grams, or...ruskie-grains...or....??

Thanks
If you ever get hit with a bucket of fish, be sure to close your eyes. ;)

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 13, 2011, 03:38 PM »
It's probably one of the few things you can buy cheaper than you can make yourself.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 13, 2011, 03:46 PM »
ericsat1, if you don;t mind me asking, how'd you order?
email?
phone call?

Just wondering the easiest way around the language barrier....
I was confused enough w/ the weights listed on their web site.
As for sizes, are they just listed in grams, or...ruskie-grains...or....??

Thanks

Good question I'm not exactly sure what I ordered as far as jig weight just the shape I wanted and #14 hook and #10 hook, and it was not easy. I will send you a email from your profile

Offline igorart7

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 13, 2011, 04:34 PM »
I just ordered some Mormyshka tungsten jigs from Russia the one's with no hook eye the line goes straight through the jig head. Pricey but if they work good add it to long list of must have ice fishing stuff that I never want to tally up. 12 jigs $28.75 with shipping

Hi!

From which site did your order?
I'm Russian I can help with language barrier.


Offline 74redone

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 13, 2011, 05:15 PM »
 eriksat1 if you would please forward the info to me as well. I just read an article in In Fisherman on those jigs and would love to try them. Is there anywhere you can get the in the US? Are they alot cheaper straight from Russia?
 Thanks Again!
  Matt




Good question I'm not exactly sure what I ordered as far as jig weight just the shape I wanted and #14 hook and #10 hook, and it was not easy. I will send you a email from your profile

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 13, 2011, 05:21 PM »
eriksat1 if you would please forward the info to me as well. I just read an article in In Fisherman on those jigs and would love to try them. Is there anywhere you can get the in the US? Are they alot cheaper straight from Russia?
 Thanks Again!
  Matt

Most of the ones for sale in the U.S. are about $4 a pop, Eric paid $2.33 each with shipping... very reasonable.
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 13, 2011, 07:11 PM »
I believe igor is referring to tin/bismuth 'mormishka' jigs as sold by HT Enterprises at one time.  As far as I know, the jigs sold by YBD and Skandia (and another source - stay tuned for this one!!!!), are really tungsten, and not some tungsten alloy as he is inferring.  The density of tungsten is approximately twice that of lead. 

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 13, 2011, 07:22 PM »
A lot of tungsten products are tungsten powder mixed with glue and are only very slightly heavier than lead.

You'll pay "high dollar" for pure smelted tungsten products!!!
Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish... author unknown


Offline igorart7

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 14, 2011, 04:03 PM »
I believe igor is referring to tin/bismuth 'mormishka' jigs as sold by HT Enterprises at one time.  As far as I know, the jigs sold by YBD and Skandia (and another source - stay tuned for this one!!!!), are really tungsten, and not some tungsten alloy as he is inferring.  The density of tungsten is approximately twice that of lead. 
Hi richstick!
I did not mean any specific company.
I meant in general they mostly made from tungsten alloy.
I simply mentioned web site who I know makes solid tungsten mosmishkas.
I'm in the process of buying those.

Offline igorart7

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 14, 2011, 04:06 PM »
I just ordered some Mormyshka tungsten jigs from Russia the one's with no hook eye the line goes straight through the jig head. Pricey but if they work good add it to long list of must have ice fishing stuff that I never want to tally up. 12 jigs $28.75 with shipping
HI

Would you be please post the URL about that Fisherman article many people refer here.
And also can you please send me PM or post where from you've ordered your mormishkas from Russia.

Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 14, 2011, 04:36 PM »
I think they said the artical was in the latest issue of in fisherman magizine
http://www.in-fisherman.com/

Offline flyboyroy

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 14, 2011, 05:32 PM »
I believe igor is referring to tin/bismuth 'mormishka' jigs as sold by HT Enterprises at one time.  As far as I know, the jigs sold by YBD and Skandia (and another source - stay tuned for this one!!!!), are really tungsten, and not some tungsten alloy as he is inferring.  The density of tungsten is approximately twice that of lead. 

I know that is the buzz arround the shanty --- but  you guy all have  computers.  Google "periodic table of the elements"    It is a chart that tells you  - among other things -- how much  the different elements weight.

for example:  Hydrogen (H) is very light.  its a gas.  It has an atomic weight of 1.   The symbol for lead is Pb and it has an atomic weight of  207.   that means its 207 times heavier than  Hydrogen.  The symbol for Tungsten is W.  It has an atomic weight of   -- 183.   Lead and  tungsten are both heavy elements, and they both make great jigs, but  lead is heavier.   Check it out for  yourself.   

If you made two jigs the exact same size and shape --- the lead one would weigh more than the tungsten one. 

That is comparing  pure lead to pure tungsten.  I pour my own lead jigs ---  would not have a clue how to get a fire hot enough to melt tungsten.  And I bet it would do a number on the molds, too :-)

Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 14, 2011, 05:40 PM »
LOL  if you ever took any chemistry classes you would realize that atomic weight of an atom and density of an element are two completely different things.  Too funny!  Tungsten is DENSER than lead, which means if you have 1 cubic foot of tungsten and 1 cubic foot of lead, the tungsten will weigh more...  LOL!!  ;D

That is interesting though about the tungsten 'alloys' - why then are they supplied as bare jig heads that the manufacturers solder the hook into?  They could just as easily set the hook into the 'alloy' while it is in the mold, curing......  Also - then there is no way you are going to buy 'pure' tungsten jigs for $2.33 apiece. 

Offline cold_feet

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #19 on: Jan 14, 2011, 07:31 PM »
Wolfram is the periodic table name for Tungsten. Goggle Wolfram and a number of sites come up. Casting this stuff is dangerous as it also has flash point. Especially in powder form. Right here in Buffalo area is a plant that makes it. You can get powder in diffrent grades and I believe also Tungsten rod. You need specialty tool to work with this stuff and those cost out weigh the idea of a average Joe using it. Like explained before by others it can be used powder form and epoxied to get jigs built The weight is slightly heavier than lead but still heavier for the same size jig. The same powder can be bought at Golf pro shops as they use this on clubs to add weight and balance clubs cost is about 20.00 for small jar. Like I stated read about it it is Flammable and slightly unstable in powder form.


Flyboyroy

What you say is true lead is heavier than wolfram But here is one thing you did not see. Wolfram is denser 71% in fact more than lead which means simply a 1OZ sinker cavity filled with lead weighs 1 oz right, now the same cavity filled with Wolfram weighs nearly 1 3/4 oz. If my math is right. So with this the same jig in lead we will say weighs 1/64 oz. the same size jig in wolfram weighs 71% heavier. putting this same size jig at nearly 1/32 oz. Very rough math here So the theory of the same size lead jig weighing more is false. Wolfram in the same size weighs more. This all relates to displacements check it out.

Offline SPADED

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #20 on: Jan 14, 2011, 08:01 PM »
Hi!

From which site did your order?
I'm Russian I can help with language barrier.



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Offline Ice_Stalker

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 14, 2011, 08:49 PM »
I think they said the artical was in the latest issue of in fisherman magizine
http://www.in-fisherman.com/

Does anyone know where to order those Shark Tackle jigs made with Wolfram and crystal?
Catch.Reel.Release...R epeat as needed.

Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 14, 2011, 10:34 PM »
I can say that I know that they will be available hopefully soon.  The deals are being worked out - I know the guys involved, but can't really say more.  Stay tuned - they are coming!!  (flippin' AWESOME jigs too.....) 

Offline flyboyroy

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 15, 2011, 03:50 AM »
Well ----  someday they will probably ban  lead products, and when they do,  tungsten might be the  best deal  in town.     I might  splurge and  buy a tungsten jig or two,  just  to see how they work.   

---- but  for a guy like me that  targets the wiley bluegill,perch, crappie ---   well,  I'm thinking  that I will still be able to catch a few  using   the old standby -- tiny lead jigs.  I make my own,  and the  most expensive part is the hook.   - - - can probably make them for under a dime.

Low tech,  but   you can always  pinch on a split shot if you want it  to sink faster.   I'm not slamming the tungsten  jigs -- everyone I talk to that uses them loves them.   

I  just  try to remember that I am  going out to catch a handful of  bluegills for  dinner.  We tend to  make it sound complicated ,  but  its not.   Go to a good spot,  put a spike or a waxie on --  on anything with a hook.  You should at least catch a few, eh ?     If   you want to fine tune it  to catch a few more  you can change colors, hook sizes, baits --  and  yes -- even go to  Tungsten jigs.

At the end of the day we will both wind up at the same place ---  out in the garage  filleting   pannies !

Offline GCD

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 15, 2011, 05:52 AM »
Does anyone know where to order those Shark Tackle jigs made with Wolfram and crystal?

When they're not sold out, you can get them here:

http://www.bentleyfishing.com/products/Custom-Jigs/index.htm

You may want to call them and see when they expect their next shipment.

LOL  if you ever took any chemistry classes you would realize that atomic weight of an atom and density of an element are two completely different things.  Too funny!  Tungsten is DENSER than lead, which means if you have 1 cubic foot of tungsten and 1 cubic foot of lead, the tungsten will weigh more...  LOL!!  ;D

That is interesting though about the tungsten 'alloys' - why then are they supplied as bare jig heads that the manufacturers solder the hook into?  They could just as easily set the hook into the 'alloy' while it is in the mold, curing......  Also - then there is no way you are going to buy 'pure' tungsten jigs for $2.33 apiece. 

Ok laffing boy, how do you explain these tungsten jigs for $2.25 each?

https://www.sportsmensdirect.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=173

You probably can't, so I'll explain it to you.

Those jigs and the "Bumble" jigs with the Swarovski crystals that everyone is raving about aren't solid tungsten. They're tungsten powder mixed with epoxy and poured into a mold with the hook inserted into the mold. Look at the hook and the eye, you can tell it's a solid hook. These jigs are only slightly denser than lead and not worth the extra $$$, for the obvious reason that they're not pure tungsten. They're tungsten powder mixed with epoxy glue.

There are 2 processes for making tungsten shapes, the above mentioned and sintering.

Sintering will be the closest you can get to pure tungsten. Tungsten powder is placed in a mold and compressed, then it's heated to a temperature below it's melting point to link the molecules together (somewhere just above 2000*F for tungsten). This obviously is a more expensive process than just mixing powder with glue.

A sintered jig head will be easy to spot, it'll be the round faceted (with flat planes for easier drilling) one with the hook shank and no eye... with the hole drilled thru the top and out the bottom.

People buying those "Bumble Bee" jig are paying for the crystal and paint job, not for pure tungsten. If you'll look at the site they say "pure tungsten building material" I take that to mean pure tungsten is an ingredient in their jig body.
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Offline SPADED

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #25 on: Jan 15, 2011, 10:28 AM »
tungsten is very brittle, it must be made into an alloy by mixing with various other metals to make it usable, GCD is right, there are no pure tungsten jigs. not a single company sells pure tungsten ice jigs i bet. all tungtsten jigs are alloys.

 all of this talk of the density has aready been explained before any of these posts in a thread named Tungsten jigs also... coldfeet i like your description of the 1 oz jig of lead weighing 1 oz and the same 1 oz size jig of tungsten being roughly 1 3/4 oz... it would be 1.71 oz.. very well explained, good example man.

Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 15, 2011, 10:48 AM »
Here is the low down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten
Tungsten / Wolfram
A steel-gray metal under standard conditions when uncombined, tungsten is found naturally on Earth only combined in chemical compounds. It was identified as a new element in 1781, and first prepared as a metal in 1783. Its important ores include wolframite and scheelite. The free element is remarkable for its robust physical properties, especially the fact that it has the highest melting point of all the non-alloyed metals and the second highest of all the elements after carbon. Also remarkable is its very high density of 19.3 times that of water. This density is slightly more than that of uranium, 71% more than that of lead and within 0.25% that of gold.[3] Tungsten with minor amounts of impurities is often brittle[4] and hard, making it difficult to work. However, very pure tungsten is more ductile, and can be cut with a hacksaw.[5]
The unalloyed elemental form is used mainly in electrical applications. Tungsten's many alloys have numerous applications, most notably in incandescent light bulb filaments, X-ray tubes (as both the filament and target), and superalloys. Tungsten's hardness and high density give it military applications in penetrating projectiles. Tungsten compounds are most often used industrially as catalysts.

Lead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead

Offline eriksat1

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #27 on: Jan 15, 2011, 11:00 AM »
I have seen the China made bulk tungsten jig heads they have a groove cut in the cast jig head to lay a hook in and then solder the hook to the jig head. But like was said I think the minimum order is 10,000 jig heads, and I'm sure they are not cheap, best bet is just buy $20 worth of the finished jigs and be done.

Offline richstick

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #28 on: Jan 15, 2011, 09:44 PM »
GCD - my point was that some guy earlier in the thread was supposedly buying 'pure' tungsten jigs from some Russian website, and the math worked out to $2.33 per jig.  I agree with you that a pure tungsten jig should cost way more than that.  Laffing boy, I like that.  I'd probably spell it Laughing Boy though, as I like correct spelling.

Oh - and the guy who posted the Bentley link - those are not the same jigs as the Shark brand jigs.  The Bentley jigs are Polish, and the Shark Tackle stuff is Ukrainian.  They look similar, but are in fact two different manufacturers. 

At the end of the day, I don't care if it's sintered tungsten (gotta love wikipedia...) or tungsten powder mixed with epoxy, the jigs fish heavier, faster, and more accurately than lead.  If you don't think so, then you have not actually seen or used one.  Seriously, there is no question about it.   They put more fish on the ice for me, I love them!   


Offline prospector

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Re: How in the world do they make tungsten jigs?
« Reply #29 on: Jan 15, 2011, 10:53 PM »
planning on making a few jigs with pure Wyoming gold. watch out fish! later, prospector

 



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