Long Pond Problem

[smeltslayer]

I hope if you guys are referring to me as wasting fish that were slaughtered you are very wrong. The fish I take are either eaten by me and my family or dispursed back into the community. Might just suprise you if you ask down at the country store if they know of anybody that would like to have a nice fish for a meal. The way the economical times are nowadays. People that cant get out to fish still like fish and are very happy with a free meal of fish. Got a few people around here that love pike now after the ones we brought back on Sunday. JUST DONT ASSUME THE FISH ARE BEING WASTED. 

[JimP]

Will, I know you don't waste fish. You are like robin hood with game and fish. I do the same on a smaller scale in my little neighborhood.

bbpinecone,

I'd prefer to trust the judgment of a biologist stocking salmon according to a plan, than some idiot toting a pail full of bass yearlings to a pond because he wants to catch them there.

I agree with this statement but don't agree that there are bucket biologists lurking around every corner. I'm an evolutionary sort of guy, I think you get a ground zero from a bucket guy and nature takes over. I can trace the spread of pike from sabattus to infected waters without the help of any bucket bio. Many of the bass end up stocked in one place and end up others. Fish swim and high water years (last 2 come to mind, 9 of the last 20) move fish around. Proven fact.

Most Maine lake were barren of trout?  Really??  Or is this just conjecture on your part...

I should have said many not most but it is not conjecture on my part that many of the current waters that contain trout and salmon were originally stocked by man. The late 1800's with all the growth in rail and the advances in transportation were an extremely prolific era in fish movement.

Which species were decimated by the introduction of salmon decades ago by biologists?  Just throwing it out there...

You are not going to like this answer at all.  Relax, it is just my opinion and I love salmon too, above all others even but salmon are just as upsetting to an environment as any other fish when they are introduced. Do they eat? Look at the food wars going on at moosehead and sebago. Two classic examples of playing God. no bucket, just state trucks.

Since only 4 lakes originally contained salmon in Maine it could be said that salmon has been the most introduced species ever. Maybe the brook trout could give it a run for it's money. How many of them have we stocked, transplanted, bred in captivity and introduced.The only difference in my mind is we love these fish above all others and place greater value on them.  That is fine but I will never understand hating a fish mainly because it is not a salmon or trout.

[EASTGRANDEST]

They can and are stocked just very expensive! State doesn't really like to do it.  I fell it would bring a lot of ponds back if they did stock smelt.

It must real expensive, with the Salmon crises at EG and Long just to name a couple. I can think of doz.'s of smelts that have died in my bait bucket after a long weekend of fishing, but we cant dump them down the hole...

[Flatlander2Fisher]

Thanks im sure every bass fisherman im Maine will appreciate that !!!! 

Not everyone has man love for salmon  sorry to have to tell you that 

We all need to protect the fishing in Maine water    50ryrs from now our kids will be reading about how Maine fisherman tried to regulate fish population on there own and wiped out several fisheries while doing it we have people in place who manage these waters let them do there job !!!

Uhm Uhm!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

I just think that the frustration of someone getting the wrong fish is just plain idiotuic.  So what...It wasn't a salmon, but guess what it was a fish and from the sound of it there were 20 of them when you trolled to the one salmon. Good day fishing to me.

[pikehater]

S-13: No size or bag limit on bass.

That is the special regulation on the lake where our camp is.  Why?  Probably because it is historically a salmon fishery and the bio's would like to keep it that way.  I fish for smallmouth in the dog days of summer when at camp and I keep everyone.  And I wont say what I do with most of them because I know how sensitive most people on here are.

After reading all these posts, one thing to thinks about.  Whether stocked, illegally introduced, or migrated bass and pike have had obvious negative impact on trout and salmon.  OBVIOUS.  Has a salmon or trout ever negatively impacted bass or pike?  The anwser is no.   I don't care what you fish for, but I will do what I can to help the fishery I enjoy.

[nbourque]

S-13: No size or bag limit on bass.

That is the special regulation on the lake where our camp is.  Why?  Probably because it is historically a salmon fishery and the bio's would like to keep it that way.  I fish for smallmouth in the dog days of summer when at camp and I keep everyone.  And I wont say what I do with most of them because I know how sensitive most people on here are.

After reading all these posts, one thing to thinks about.  Whether stocked, illegally introduced, or migrated bass and pike have had obvious negative impact on trout and salmon.  OBVIOUS.  Has a salmon or trout ever negatively impacted bass or pike?  The anwser is no.   I don't care what you fish for, but I will do what I can to help the fishery I enjoy.

Keep telling yourself that  .......it's not going to do a damn thing.

Don't get me wrong. People who are illegally introducing species into lakes and rivers have no place in this world as fishermen and sportsmen. The problem is that it is so easy to do. Think about it, how easy would it be for any of us on here to catch some fish, trout, perch, bass, pike whatever, put it into a bucket with some water and travel down to another body of water and put in those fish? VERY EASY. And probabaly not one person would see you do it.

As for the question of stocking smelts into lakes that need it, I believe the state needs to take a hard look at this. This is why many of the trout and salmon waters are declining.

[Cool Blue]

I can say its not nature thats weakening the salmon and trout population, its people. You know why the bass are so healthy and populated? So many people practice the (ART) of catch and realease. Ok, now if the 1000's of people did this with trout and salmon instead of keeping their limit everytime this would obviously help alot. Some people had their ways of today implanted in them at a young age. Its just like a bad habit, they just can't shake it..My father and the people I was around when I was a young kid always told me if your not going to eat the fish put it back for another day no matter what species it may be...

[JDK]

I'm wondering if the state would be better off spending the $$ to stock smelt and improve smelt spawning habitat rather than stock salmon and trout.  I fish Alligator lake and believe IF&W stocked smelt in there for a while.  Seemed to help the quality in the short term but not so much now.

Also I remember reading that there was a big effort to stock smelt in Moosehead (I might be wrong). 

[BoneHead]

I've lived in Maine my entire life. I used to work for a company that sent all over the US and overseas. I've been to France, Spain, Britain, Germany, Puerto Rico, Mexico, down south, out west, mid west, the south west, from my experienses and my honest opinion, WE HAVE IT DAMN GOOD HERE IN MAINE!!!. Every trip I went on I couldn't wait to get back. The ME IF&W does the best job that they can, and I think they do a great job. Just wanted to keep things in perspective is all........

Now carry on. 

[nbourque]

I'm wondering if the state would be better off spending the $$ to stock smelt and improve smelt spawning habitat rather than stock salmon and trout.  I fish Alligator lake and believe IF&W stocked smelt in there for a while.  Seemed to help the quality in the short term but not so much now.

Also I remember reading that there was a big effort to stock smelt in Moosehead (I might be wrong). 

I agree.

[EmeraldShiner]

Have stayed away from this site and all the controversy for some thirty days, in returning I find it has only gotten worse. We have this ongoing, running argument now between those who prefer warmwater species to those who prefer coldwater gamefish species. Why don't we just debate a woman's right to choice on the issue of abortion as it will get us just as far, which is nowhere! Dictating personal preference to those with differing viewpoints is a waste of time and divides our house! This type of controversy is bad for IS Team Maine and only feeds into the hands of special interest groups like PETA that want to end our sport altogether. I personallly am a diehard coldwater game fisherman, none of these rantings will change my personal right to fish for the species I love to target, so please leave your personal bias/opinions about what you feel is right/wrong with other peoples preferences about fishing at the doorstep when you come onto this site! Jim P am a little disappointed in your recent comments regarding landlocked salmon one of the premier most sought after gamefish in the state of Maine! DIFW has spent a great deal of time, money and research putting these fish in the right lake at the right time. Salmon need deep, cold, well oxygenated habitat with hopefully lots of streams/inlets for spawning opportunity. Only certain lakes qualify with optimum habitat which is where they have concentrated thier efforts. Warmwater species can survive just about anywhere, so why can't DIFW continue to target these special waters with salmon stocking/management programs? Okay I've had my say, so maybe I'll just go away and come back to myfishfinder in April.

[JimP]

Emerald, sorry to disappoint you but I think you should try and re-read the thread. It is not about cold water vs warm water at all. It is about respecting nature and everything in it. It is also about understanding the complex cause and effect relationships all these fish have. I didn't take any cheap shots at DIF&W. You will not find a bigger supporter. If fact I am often referred to as an apologist for the department. I just have my own opinions, I try not to use words like good and bad. I do have a problem with the states management of invasive fish, I feel they are moving in the wrong direction. They know how I feel, probably think I'm nuts. I fish with some of these guys and have had long discussions. It doesn't mean we are not friends. We are.

I'm also sorry you have such a dim view of the discussions about this subject in general, you are not alone. I think it is healthy, I have changed more than one opinion after reading threads like this one. I wish more would try and see things from another persons perspective. That is what I get out of them.

About the salmon, All I did was point out the historical facts as I understand them. I never said it was bad or good only that it happened that way. Salmon is the number one fish I love to fish for these days. I'm glad they have been moved to so many places but from a purists point of view they are still an introduced species. Why is acknowledging that fact so bothersome? How can some declare that salmon have a greater right to be in Long than the native smelt? or even the bass? My overall point is that angler preference has is does drive these decisions, once you go down that road what do you do when angler preference changes over time? I think that is where we are heading. Again, not good or bad just preference...

[livinbass]

Wow some of these posts are like a book.Bass i feel are native to Maine now because Ive been catching them all my life "I'm 36" I hate trolling all day to catch one five pound salmon but that's my choice and if i do catch one 99.9 percent of the time it would go back in the water.I no some of you guys would be ripped if i used it for yote bait or eagle food.Its real depressing to see my way of fishing shunned so bad.Cant we all just get along

[magoo42]

All kids who love to fish appreciate your efforts at killing all of the bass.

[livinbass]

All kids who love to fish appreciate your efforts at killing all of the bass.

What are you talking about

[Ice Time]

which fish species were put in Long pond legally and which illegally---- thats where I draw the line.

about 5 years ago Long was opened up to us ice fishermen for the specific purpose of removing pike---- was it not?

[livinbass]

All kids who love to fish appreciate your efforts at killing all of the bass.

sorry i get it

[sst4life]

sorry i get it

SLOW 

[EmeraldShiner]

Don't need to re-read your reply Jim P, got it quite thoroughly the first time. The first part of my reply was not directed at you, it was directed at the general tone and direction that this topic and many, many others just like it have taken as of late. We don't need fish species tolerance and diversity training here on ICESHANTY in my opinion. I think there is much fish philosophy and amchair biology going on here. Maybe National Geographic might be interested!

[buddah]

[minnesotapiking]

Don't need to re-read your reply Jim P, got it quite thoroughly the first time. The first part of my reply was not directed at you, it was directed at the general tone and direction that this topic and many, many others just like it have taken as of late. We don't need fish species tolerance and diversity training here on ICESHANTY in my opinion. I think there is much fish philosophy and amchair biology going on here. Maybe National Geographic might be interested!

As an employee of National Geographic, I would say that they may very well be interested, but certainly as much for the curious anthropological findings (so many different species of human with arrested development, homo salmononlycus and homopikehaticus, and homosonaiveIcanbelieve itus for just a few) as much as the nature and geographic aspect.

[GasBlaster]

I can say its not nature thats weakening the salmon and trout population, its people. You know why the bass are so healthy and populated? So many people practice the (ART) of catch and realease. Ok, now if the 1000's of people did this with trout and salmon instead of keeping their limit everytime this would obviously help alot. Some people had their ways of today implanted in them at a young age. Its just like a bad habit, they just can't shake it..My father and the people I was around when I was a young kid always told me if your not going to eat the fish put it back for another day no matter what species it may be...

  I think you are right on with this . The bag limits on trout and salmon should be tightend up a bunch and it would have to help some . I know most everyone here knows of a brook or a beaver pond that was right full of trout at one time and as people found out about it the fishing went down hill quick . It was people cleaning them out not bass or pike in these areas . On a bigger scale as the population of the state grows more and more .Roads get made getting us into more and more areas of the state to fish out all the trout . Also development of the state and lakefront property has brought down the water quality . There are tons of reasons for the decrease in trout .  Most were brought on by people in one way or another .  If it were not for our stocking system the trout and salmon fishing would be almost non existant with the exceptions of areas that see very few people .   There wild trout would still thrive.   .02

[THREECAR]

  I think you are right on with this . The bag limits on trout and salmon should be tightend up a bunch and it would have to help some . I know most everyone here knows of a brook or a beaver pond that was right full of trout at one time and as people found out about it the fishing went down hill quick . It was people cleaning them out not bass or pike in these areas . On a bigger scale as the population of the state grows more and more .Roads get made getting us into more and more areas of the state to fish out all the trout . Also development of the state and lakefront property has brought down the water quality . There are tons of reasons for the decrease in trout .  Most were brought on by people in one way or another .  If it were not for our stocking system the trout and salmon fishing would be almost non existant with the exceptions of areas that see very few people .   There wild trout would still thrive.   .02

Great points Blaster  8).

[fishfindah]

I can say its not nature thats weakening the salmon and trout population, its people. You know why the bass are so healthy and populated? So many people practice the (ART) of catch and realease. Ok, now if the 1000's of people did this with trout and salmon instead of keeping their limit everytime this would obviously help alot. Some people had their ways of today implanted in them at a young age. Its just like a bad habit, they just can't shake it..My father and the people I was around when I was a young kid always told me if your not going to eat the fish put it back for another day no matter what species it may be...

I agree 100%!

[fishfindah]

I know I'm only a "rookie" but here's my 2 cents worth on this post .  I knew it would be a hot post from the time I saw it yesterday.  I agree with the majority here that the smallies are not the problem and that you shouldn't kill a species of fish just because they are trash to you and that's not what you were fishing for.  "Anglers" started this post and hasn't responed.....    If you are going to start a fire, stick around to keep it going.   To his defense, he did say he kept his ONE bass a day.  He is entitled to that.  What he does with the fish is up to him. 
     However,  I have fished since I was 4 years old.  I still remember going fishing with my Dad down at York Pond to catch brookies with a worm and bobber..   Since,  all I want to do is fish -especially for bass and pike!  Do I hate salmon or trout? Of course not, I just don't fish for them.  Do I want to kill any species besides bass or pike? Nope.  Maybe, back in the day you shouldn't have kept so many salmon and trout and that would have helped with the State's stocking program.  Let's face it, slamon and trout are very delicate(hate to use that word on this website) and even though you release them, there's a good  chance a large percentage of them won't survive(unlike bass and pike).
      Don't ruin my day of fishing just because I fish for "junk" fish- or my 10 year old son's for that matter.  If he or I were to catch a salmon, we would release it, unless we wanted to "meet" our daily allowance.   Time for me to go.  I have to go slash all the tires on Ford trucks in the neighborhood just because I drive a Chevy........ .  JUST GO OUT AND FISH AND HAVE FUN NO MATTER WHAT YOU CATCH. 

P.S.  Sorry if this post is late.  I type slow.
 

[squaretail]

people who have this attitude are no better then the bucket bio's in my opinion. bucket bio's put fish in water that they want to catch, you on the other hand wanna kill fish just because you don't like them....same thing in my book.

if i may, i would like to point out another reason for the demise of long pond salmon. i wish the salmon/trout fisherman would think back over the years and add up all the trout/salmon they have kept. a female brookie carries an average of how many eggs? i know not all eggs that hatch will survive, but if everyone practiced catch and release, well, every little bit would help and improve the fishery little by little. maybe some stiffer regs would also help. im also glad to see this thread is remaining civil.

Well put....

[JDK]

(Image removed from quote.)

IF&W had to do that to a pond in Limestone (twice I believe) because someone chose to stock smallmouth bass.  Expensive to say the least.

[pegasus]

I wouldn't put all the blame on people, not in a direct way as in fishing them out. The state will dump 3000 or more brook trout in Eagle Lake on MDI each year and when they do the Shags, Loons and Otter get their share not to mention the touge. The ones that get the most pressure from people are the ones in ponds close to big cities or towns. Lakes that have cabins or houses every 1/4 acre where people live year round can contribute to all kinds of stuff getting into the watershed that could kill off a bunch of fish. Runoffs from roads, lawns, illegal basement drain that sometimes have chemicals in them that would make a yellow perch puke and even washing the boat or car. I can remember when I used to live in Lewiston I would go out to my car in the morning and it would be all covered with soot, didn't look good on a 1967 Cannary Yellow, Camaro SS, what did it do to the lakes.

[billditrite]

didn't look good on a 1967 Cannary Yellow, Camaro SS, what did it do to the lakes.

At least you can get that baby going fast enough to blow that soot off!! your cool  stock just went up a little Steve 

[pegasus]

350,295hp, Muncie 4 speed and convertible. 8)