Bleeding air bladders on fish?

[Michiganmallard]

Does anyone know how to bleed the air bladders on fish caught deep?  I've heard of people who do this with a hypodermic needle but I've never seen it done or actually talked to anyone who knows how to do it.  Has anyone tried this?  Is is a myth?
I'm a catch and release fisherman and I've recently been introduced to lakers & whitefish (I'm a PIKE guy normally  )  I hate to kill them but some of them float like corks when you try to put them back.  Do the ones that swim away survive?
 

[FishDeepCreek]

That technique called "fizzing" has always been a controversy. In Fisherman did an article on perch in Deep water last year, the article said basically any perch caught in waters over 40 feet deep, should be a harvest fish. The Mortality is almost certain of a perch pulled from waters, deep. However certain kinds of fish, mainly trout, do not have airbladders, they regulate differently. I think trout actually gulp air to control depth. I dont know if that is the same for all trout or not. Usally fish in the sunfish, and perch family are the ones with problems from deep water, especially bass. If you fizz a fish wrong , you will do more harm than good.

[richstick]

there is no right way to fizz any fish.  The ONLY sportsmanlike thing to do is to keep every deep fish you catch - I mean, if it's 4" long, it goes home with you.  You can fizz them, and they swim away, but they die in very short order.   Sorry, but there is no way around it.  Don't like it, then don't fish deeper than 15-18 FOW. 

[toguebuster]

here in maine our bioligist would disagree with you richstick ,in our rules and regs they give techniques to remove air .mostly on our togue[laketrout].you slowly and gently put pressure back about an inch near the anus and apply gentle pressure and move forward slowly. you will hear the air come out .most of our togue do come from water over 40 ft and we like to preserve fish for future anglers here so we do practice catch and release,and not keep small fish . and if the fish were dying later than some of our lakes in the spring would have thousands of togue floating belly up and i assure you ive never seen that.

[TGF]

I'm confused.
1) I thought tongue was not a laketrout
2) laketrout I thought have no problem coming up from deep parts. Cause I have pulled up some lakers quickly from 150ft of H20 and there is never a swim bladder sticking out of its mouth. All is intact when I clean them.

Burbot which I thought was tongue is another story. If reeled quickly from 50ft or more always get the swim bladder coming out the mouth happening.

Someone please clarify.

[toguebuster]

herein maine we call them togue not tongue,and lakers will not have a bladder sticking out of thier mouth,just a slightly round belly,if you dont bleed they get stuck up on top ive had some i couldnt shove down the hole they just kept popping back up! iguess they will stay on top and cant get down according to our bioligists.

[TGF]

I've never had a problem releasing lakers. Even watched them swim past the 40 ft mark on the Aqua-vu after releasing them. They came up from 80 ft of H20 on that occasion.

[Michiganmallard]

Cool.  So I can release the lakers without worrying about killing them?  What about whitefish?  I have released them and they typically swim down quickly (bubbling from the mouth, but looking healthy enough).  What scares me is they look like they're going to pop when they come out of the hole.
To add to the original question, what about smelt?  Can you fizz them to keep them alive for bait the next day?  I try to reel them up really slow but about 50% die before morning anyway.  Any suggestions?  I am using an aerated bucket.
I don't fish for panfish or perch so I don't have to worry about them.
Thanks for the info toguebuster.  I found a link to Maine's recommendations:
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/fishing/f-c&r.htm

[ice fishNH]

To add to the original question, what about smelt?  Can you fizz them to keep them alive for bait the next day?  I try to reel them up really slow but about 50% die before morning anyway.  Any suggestions?  I am using an aerated bucket.

http://www.state.me.us/ifw/fishing/f-c&r.htm

I caught a couple of smelt (2) two weekends ago, and they are still alive today.  I didn't intend on keeping them alive this long (more like didn't expect them to live this long), but they have survived anyway just by placing them in a tupperware container with the lid partially sealed and just keep them in the fridge - no bubblers or food at all.  I think that the dark along with constant cool water temp. helps them.  Will see how they do when I go to take them out on the lake this weekend though. 

[IcefishrNY]

Here in New York I do alot of fishing in deep saltwater and when we fish for sea bass and ling, we just reel em in VERY SLOWLY. That gives their bodies time to adjust to the pressure, it works great. Hope that helps.

[TGF]

Yeah I do the same with small burbot. You can usually tell if he is a keeper or not when you are reeling up.

[billditrite]

i copied this directly from the maine inland fisheries and wildlife...

TIPS FOR CATCHING AND RELEASING FISH

By carefully following these simple instructions, you can release your fish unharmed.  If you enjoyed catching your fish, so will the next angler!

1. Time is of the essence.  Play and release the fish as quickly and carefully as possible. An exhausted fish may be too weak to recover.

2. IMPORTANT:  Keep the fish in the water if it is not going to be part of your daily bag limit. A fish out of water is not only suffocating, but may be subject to a "quick freeze".   

3. Be gentle.  Keep your fingers away from the gills. Don't squeeze the fish.

4. Remove the hook with small pliers or a similar type tool - If the hook is deeply embedded or in a sensitive area such as the gills or stomach, cut the leader close to the snout. Make an effort to use regular steel (bronzed) hooks to promote early disintegration. Do not use stainless or gold-plated hooks.

5. To revive a fish once it is back in the water, hold it in a swimming position in the water and move it gently back and forth until it is able to swim away.

6.  Lake trout (togue) often have expanded air bladders after being pulled up rapidly from deep water.  If the belly appears expanded, release the fish from the hook first, then gently press your thumb along the stomach near the paired belly fins and move it forward a few times to remove air from the bladder.  Finally, proceed to revive and free the fish.

i dont know if the same applies to perch or not 

[TroutFishingBear]

No, it doesn't apply to perch billditrite. Anytime you see a fish with an airbladder in its throat, that is a dead fish no matter what you do. I used to catch walleye in 8 ft. of water, and their swimbladders always were out for some reason. So I always kept them. If I get a perch in 25 ft. of water or deeper, I always keep it because its swim bladder is in the throat. For lakers, you don't even have to push the air out. Usually, you can release them just fine. Of course, I usually fish only 30-60 feet of water. But for lakers, don't try to squeeze air out of them if they are from 30-60 feet of water, they live just fine.

[TJG]

i copied this directly from the Maine inland fisheries and wildlife...

TIPS FOR CATCHING AND RELEASING FISH

By carefully following these simple instructions, you can release your fish unharmed.  If you enjoyed catching your fish, so will the next angler!

1. Time is of the essence.  Play and release the fish as quickly and carefully as possible. An exhausted fish may be too weak to recover.

2. IMPORTANT:  Keep the fish in the water if it is not going to be part of your daily bag limit. A fish out of water is not only suffocating, but may be subject to a "quick freeze".   

3. Be gentle.  Keep your fingers away from the gills. Don't squeeze the fish.

4. Remove the hook with small pliers or a similar type tool - If the hook is deeply embedded or in a sensitive area such as the gills or stomach, cut the leader close to the snout. Make an effort to use regular steel (bronzed) hooks to promote early disintegration. Do not use stainless or gold-plated hooks.

5. To revive a fish once it is back in the water, hold it in a swimming position in the water and move it gently back and forth until it is able to swim away.

6.  Lake trout (togue) often have expanded air bladders after being pulled up rapidly from deep water.  If the belly appears expanded, release the fish from the hook first, then gently press your thumb along the stomach near the paired belly fins and move it forward a few times to remove air from the bladder.  Finally, proceed to revive and free the fish.

i dont know if the same applies to perch or not 

1) If you are bringing fish in from 25 feet or deeper, you have to reel em in very slow or their air sack will expand to the point where they will not go back down the hole and die right there before your eyes. Yes you want to release a fish fast, but too fast and it dies anyway. This applies to perch, most panfish, bigger walleye and northern pike and some burbot. Lake trout have an air bladder and will burp themselfs or you can do it for em.

2) Yes, if it is below zero, frozen eyes only take a few seconds.

3) Yes, be gentle, don't touch gills and keep your hands wet or wear fish handling glove. Most fish have a protective slime to protect them from parasites and disease.

4) If you have to cut your line and leave a hook in a fish, leave 4-6 inch's out of the fish's mouth, studies have shown that the longer tag end lets the fish feed normally and the tag does not get in the way then. As for using steel bronzed hooks, unless the hook is in the stomach, it will take a long time for that hook to rust out. More than likely it will work its way out in time before it will ever rust to that point. Better yet, go barbless, easier to remove.

5) Yes

6) Yes, but if you bring them in slowly they will burp themselves, 9 times out of ten.

As said before, perch can not burp themselves, the air sack will expand and pop out the mouth. No amount of massage or fissing will make this fish live longer than 24-48 hours. Most of the time if they go back down the hole, they trapped under the ice and eaten by a pike or float slowly to the lake floor, to be eaten by all that find it.

billitrite, I hope I didn't step on your toes, just wanted to clear up some points. No blood, no foul!

[billditrite]

TJG no fear bud as i said all i did was copy that from the maine inland fisheries and wildlife website and paste it here...

[Skiff]

Even if deep-caught fish don't have a swim bladder sticking out of their mouth, and they seem OK at the surface, they could still have "the bends" due to nitrogen being released in their tissues.  Down deep the pressure holds the nitrogen in solution, but on coming up, it's released into the tissues and blood like opening a warm Coke.  The fish may look OK, but die shortly if it's unable to get down to depth fast enough when released.  We have trouble like that with crappies if caught deeper than about 30'.

[toguebuster]

like i said ive cuaght alot oftogue and they do come up talking ,making noise. a litlle gentle pressure does not hurt the fish , and helps ease more air out and helps them sink dfaster to the depth they needto be at to survive,as you have seen in  state of  maines laws,suggestions come from bioligists with degrees ,not just the opinoins of fisherman. ive had some togue pop right back out of the hole ,because they couldnt swim down ,a little burp a nd they were on there way!!!!!

[crappieman12887]

here in maine our bioligist would disagree with you richstick ,in our rules and regs they give techniques to remove air .mostly on our togue[laketrout].you slowly and gently put pressure back about an inch near the anus and apply gentle pressure and move forward slowly. you will hear the air come out .most of our togue do come from water over 40 ft and we like to preserve fish for future anglers here so we do practice catch and release,and not keep small fish . and if the fish were dying later than some of our lakes in the spring would have thousands of togue floating belly up and i assure you ive never seen that.

i would have two disagree not all fish will float when there dead alot sink like a rock and using a needle in there air sack when it come out of there mouth well think about that pin hole in there lungs pretty much would it let them fill with water  i really dont think that will let the fish live,justmy two cents bill,

[fiesty]

I dunno bill, sometime we should try to remove the air from you, especially the hot air, maybe if we squeezed you hard enough from belly up, it'd help?  Whatta think?....

[toguebuster]

im not talkin needles just gentle pressure!!!!!

[FishDeepCreek]

Alot of time what you see hanging out of as fishes mouth is actually there stomach. The airbladder is located behind it, and forces it out there mouth, which is why you see what they just ate get puked up. You never fizz a fish by puncturing whats hanging out of its mouth, location of where to insert a need varies by type of species of fish. In most cases the mortality rate is high for perch even though it got back down fine, it will die not too long later. You best bet for perch, if you fish deep plan on keeping what you pull up, or dont fish deep. I save my perch harvesting for deep waters. Most fish (perch) during early ice, I release, and wait until they move into the deep waters for harvest times. Theres some big bruisers when they go deep as well. To my understanding trout species, including lakers do not have air bladders, they actually gulp air for depth control, they actually will release fine.

[crappieman12887]

I dunno bill, sometime we should try to remove the air from you, especially the hot air, maybe if we squeezed you hard enough from belly up, it'd help?  Whatta think?....

hay look who is talking i may be full of hot air ,but you look in the mirror lately your eyes are turning brown,and youknow what that means,there must be a plug down below and stuff is backing up so i recomend you go to your doctor and get a ex-lax to fix this problem,bill

[Basshuntah]

 a lake trout or touge does have the unique ability to release their airbladder and not many other fish, non of the bass/perch families can do this.Therefor laketrout can be easily released back with a few step mentioned in previous posts. yes you can use a hypodermic needle to puncture the airbladder and release the air, this will not harm the fish the tissue will heal, This is something I suggest you see done first, or try it on a perch. Bringing them up slowly helps too. This is not just what I opinion, I've taken classes in Fisheries Biology. So no not all fish are dead if you pull them up with expanded airbladder, it has just become and excuse I think. tight lines 

[wyogator]

Basshuntah, I think you are right. I know from grouper fishing, you puncture the bladder underneath, right behind the pectoral fin. I don't know whether it is the same for perch or not.

[Waubay Fisher]

I would have to say I agree w/ everyone whose comments reflect fizzing is a wasteful process, although it might vary from species to species (such as trout which I don't have the SLIGHTEST clue about  ).  However - one thing I know for sure - is that w/ walleye and perch - if you catch em DEEP, plan on keeping them.  I don't care if ya do throw them back and they swim right back down - they'll be banging against the ice within an hour.  Same thing goes for fizzing!!  By the time ya get em up from deep water, they're already stressed, then on top of that the unhooking, handling, fizzing, and possibly puncturing internal organs.  All fizzing does is pose a cause for wastefullness.

Hope that doesn't sound too harsh... i'm just saying it doesn't help, in the long run that is - and it's proven w/ walleye and perch.  I constantly hear people talking about this and wanting to know how to do it and it just sickens me 

Again - my apologies if I've offended anyone 

[Basshuntah]

yeah if ya bring perch up from real deep and their bladder is comin' out of thier mouths then yeah, keep' em or give em' to friend, or other ice fishermen even, I 'm just sayin' and expanded air bladder doesn't mean certain death, there are ways that a fish brought up from the depths can be released successfully, thats all.