If you look at Tibers report on the other thread I gave an update. Yes...lots of snow on the ice. Got the ATV's stuck many times. We also would get the atv's stuck and start spinning the tires only to find water on top of the ice and soft spots in the ice. I think there is so much weight on top of the ice it is pushing it down. Every time we drilled a hole a LOT of water came out of the hole and on top of the ice. I will not be going back to Tiber for a while....Frances is much safer ice for now!