Author Topic: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?  (Read 3753 times)

Offline St. Lawrence River Guy

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Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« on: Jan 21, 2018, 07:22 PM »
I've been running 30lb mono leaders for a few years and my results have really improved since switching from traditional wire leaders.  However, today I had two fish break off those leaders (they might have been damaged last weekend but I didn't see any noticeable issues when baiting my hooks).

So, in very clear water (today I was sight fishing perch in 20 ft+ of water) what's your leader of choice.

Type, weight, brand?

Thanks.

Offline mvanhank222

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 21, 2018, 07:35 PM »
Seagar blue label leader 20 lb for pike 8 lb for walleye 2 or 4 lb for panfish

Offline northernnyice

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 22, 2018, 07:28 AM »
Seaguar 60lb fluoro leader material. This is important... fluorocarbon line and fluorocarbon leader material are not the same. The actual leader material is much more resistant to abrassive tension. And ive been bit off on 60.

Offline St. Lawrence River Guy

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 22, 2018, 06:45 PM »
I've heard good things about seaguar.  Always balked at the price but by the time you buy tip ups, bait, shanties, heaters, etc, etc, etc, losing big fish b/c I didn't spend $20 on leaders seems silly.

Just placed an order for some 60lb leaders.

Thx.

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 23, 2018, 09:37 AM »
Why not braided line?.

Offline frigidaire

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 23, 2018, 10:30 AM »
I really like Malin BOA single strand titanium wire for pike leaders.  Super fine, nearly impossible to kink, hangs dead straight and you can tie knots with it.  20 or 30 pound test. About $20 for a 30ft coil in a zip lock bag on a card.  I only mention that because when you take it out of the bag you dare not let go of it or the entire 30ft length will lay out flat and dead straight for the entire 30ft.  I get mine from Tackle Direct.com, but I have seen it elsewhere.  PS I'm currently also evaluating Segaur 30# fluoro LEADER....

Offline northernnyice

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 26, 2018, 01:48 PM »
Why not braided line?.

Braided line is extremely strong but is easily cut when under stress.. you probably wont break a knot but a sharp tooth could be disastrous..

Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 27, 2018, 08:55 AM »
I've been using 30lb braided haven't had any problems.

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 27, 2018, 10:23 AM »
I've been using 30lb braided haven't had any problems.

For a pike leader? Either you're not catching any toothies or you need to go buy a Powerball.

I've said it repeatedly, I get to say it again. Any plastic can be cut and at some point that will happen. Titanium? Really the only advantage over steel is it's kink-free nature which, for me, is not worth the much higher price point.

Sure sounds cool to say you're using the "latest, greatest" but day in, day out I'd be very surprised to be significantly outfished by anyone using "alternative" leader material. Yes, I've been out fished on occasion but the key word here is "significantly". Also note that the word "consistently" is missing as it applies to neither steel, titanium or plastic.

Lots (and lots) of anecdotal observations around "I get more flags with fluorocarbon" but I say if I had the "hot hole" (and you know they exist on any given day) I could use clothesline for leader and outfish everyone. It's the old deal, no one (well hardly anyone) leaves a decent bite to see if it can be even better or to prove worse or doesn't work.

For me, 20# uncoated wire is cheap, dirt easy to work with (no crimps necessary), very flexible (more so than 60# fluoro) and cut proof. I did not say "break proof" and that can happen, especially at the hole if you don't mind yer p's and q's.

OK. That's it. I'm done (again), at least for a while.
To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!




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Offline Yukoner

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 28, 2018, 12:01 AM »
I have been using South Bend Invisa leaders for the past ten years or so.  Started using them when pike were stealing my small whitefish lures. 

http://www.south-bend.com/products/terminal-tackle/leaders/invisa-leader-flexible

Use the 12# leader, and get as many strikes as anyone else.  Caught lots of whites and never lost a pike because they cut off, so use them for everything now.

Ted

Offline Coachkwj

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 01, 2018, 10:58 AM »
I use 7 strand wire in 18 lb test with crimps. Never had an issue or breakoff. Super thin and very easy to work with. My son bought into the 50 lb flouro and I never seem to get out fished. As Essox said the spot is likely more important. 18 lb wire is dirt cheap and super thin and will never get bit off. I color them with black marker to dull the shine of the wire. It does kink but most times you can straighten it out. If not, again cheap to replace.
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline HWeber

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 01, 2018, 11:05 AM »
I use 7 strand wire in 18 lb test with crimps. Never had an issue or breakoff. Super thin and very easy to work with. My son bought into the 50 lb flouro and I never seem to get out fished. As Essox said the spot is likely more important. 18 lb wire is dirt cheap and super thin and will never get bit off. I color them with black marker to dull the shine of the wire. It does kink but most times you can straighten it out. If not, again cheap to replace.

X2  :thumbsup:, teeth don't cut wire. I've used down to 10lb wire with no issues :tipup:

Offline stinkyfingers

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 01, 2018, 11:17 AM »
For a pike leader? Either you're not catching any toothies or you need to go buy a Powerball.

I've said it repeatedly, I get to say it again. Any plastic can be cut and at some point that will happen. Titanium? Really the only advantage over steel is it's kink-free nature which, for me, is not worth the much higher price point.

Sure sounds cool to say you're using the "latest, greatest" but day in, day out I'd be very surprised to be significantly outfished by anyone using "alternative" leader material. Yes, I've been out fished on occasion but the key word here is "significantly". Also note that the word "consistently" is missing as it applies to neither steel, titanium or plastic.

Lots (and lots) of anecdotal observations around "I get more flags with fluorocarbon" but I say if I had the "hot hole" (and you know they exist on any given day) I could use clothesline for leader and outfish everyone. It's the old deal, no one (well hardly anyone) leaves a decent bite to see if it can be even better or to prove worse or doesn't work.

For me, 20# uncoated wire is cheap, dirt easy to work with (no crimps necessary), very flexible (more so than 60# fluoro) and cut proof. I did not say "break proof" and that can happen, especially at the hole if you don't mind yer p's and q's.

OK. That's it. I'm done (again), at least for a while.
I've had a enough sound advice from esox_xtm in recent years to know that he is a better pike fisherman than I am and I'm just going to follow his practice. Farewell to the 40#

and 80# fluoro and the Knot-2-Kinky and all the crimps and swagers. Hello to the single strand (have some 27#) and I can already do a pretty good haywire twist. 
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man".

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 01, 2018, 12:28 PM »
I've had a enough sound advice from esox_xtm in recent years to know that he is a better pike fisherman than I am and I'm just going to follow his practice. Farewell to the 40#

and 80# fluoro and the Knot-2-Kinky and all the crimps and swagers. Hello to the single strand (have some 27#) and I can already do a pretty good haywire twist.

Agreed...esox knows his esox.
"Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam circumspice."
 

Offline Martian

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 14, 2018, 09:59 AM »
this will be debated a long time. My buddy uses FC, and swears by it, He runs his fingers down by the hook, after every release, to see if there are any abrasions, ,if so, he re-ties.. One time I forgot my leader box, and had put trebles right on the snap swivel tied straight to tip up line( rope), we got just as many fish. I do not believe pike a line shy , or anything shy.i asked an old timer at my bait store about it, and he said the last tiem he looked , p[ike had teeth. I use wire on most of my leaders, and FC on a few just for grins, but do not see a difference, so when I get a fish on FC, all the way in I am concerned on a bite off, just my 2 cents

Offline Wheres Walleye

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 14, 2018, 11:42 AM »
Thanks Essox, I'm convinced. How long a wire leader should I be using? 

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #16 on: Dec 16, 2018, 10:34 AM »
I don't use shorter than 12" and often longer (18"). Gets something thinner farther away from the Dacron, leaves room to retie for a kink without rebuilding and winds right up on your spool without memory issues.
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Offline Yukoner

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 17, 2018, 11:42 PM »
I don't use shorter than 12" and often longer (18"). Gets something thinner farther away from the Dacron, leaves room to retie for a kink without rebuilding and winds right up on your spool without memory issues.

Where do you get your single strand wire?

Ted

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 18, 2018, 06:32 AM »
I only use single strand for open water leaders and then only on specific lure types to enhance their action. Live bait are all multi-strand wire. It is much more flexible and more conducive to better bait action. Uncoated 7 strand has been the standard for years but I've been looking at other, albeit more expensive, options: 1 x 19 and 7 x 7 (49 strand) in both coated and uncoated versions.

Why? Uncoated 7 strand is dirt cheap and easy to work with but can kink easily and get "curly" after only one fish. The curl doesn't weaken the line but can affect bait movement and very occasionally get snarled in itself with bait movement. Curls can be addressed (somewhat) and kinked leaders are cheap and easy to swap out. But I'm a curious guy.

Would a light nylon coating keep wire from curling and I could fish longer without having to mess with it? It is billed as being more kink resistant which is a plus. Additionally, all the multi-strand wires with more than 7 strands are advertised as being tieable. Twisting 7 strand is so easy it's criminal but tying could be even easier if it's solid.

My first tests are with my standard 20# test in the coated 7 x 7. I tied connections with a figure 8 knot (how simple is that?). The knot is low profile and can be tied easily with cold hands on the ice requiring only a wire nipper to trim the tag. In the small sample size on small fish the results are good. No kinks, curls less, still no spool memory, more flexible than 7 strand, not significantly thicker and easy to work with. Caught a number of walleyes, small pike and a bass with no issues. I really need to "pressure test" on some larger fish before I give a wholehearted endorsement but so far, so good.

Since I've got a lot more time to play I want to test a range of selections to see what suits my needs best and what I can "get away with". Here's a link to my old standby: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B003GRAAFY/?coliid=I1U4QJDY7W5BZ3&colid=1Y4POXUWH3MLQ&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!




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Offline azj5001

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 18, 2018, 03:54 PM »
I used 20-25lbs 7 strand stainless steel wire this fall. Look up how the guys in the UK tie their leaders. They call them traces no crimping required just twisting with locking pliers. I had no issues with them last fall I'll be trying them this winter on tip ups using dead herring and mackerel.

Offline a_virden

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #20 on: Dec 26, 2018, 08:48 PM »
Good info from esox.  Now I have to change all my leaders

Offline Takes2Long

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 21, 2019, 01:25 PM »
I've caught too many pike, chain pickerel and even walleyes on 50 lb. Fireline braid to switch to anything else. I've never had one snap off, but I had bigger fish break the hook or the barrel swivel on my tip ups.

Offline Yukoner

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 21, 2019, 06:12 PM »
I used 20-25lbs 7 strand stainless steel wire this fall. Look up how the guys in the UK tie their leaders. They call them traces no crimping required just twisting with locking pliers. I had no issues with them last fall I'll be trying them this winter on tip ups using dead herring and mackerel.

Hi azj5001.

Can you post a link to the UK guys leaders tips?  Would like to see how they are doing this.

Thanks,
Ted

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 21, 2019, 06:21 PM »
Rule #1: Never skimp on terminal tackle. Your hook, swivel, whatever are your connection to your prize. Buy quality hooks and swivels. Never had either one break. They're not "that expensive" and the investment is worthwhile. Even if your leader is trashed I've reused hooks and swivel on the 2nd gen rig.

Doesn't have to be sexy stuff either, Eagle Claw makes some great hooks (right here in the USofA) and my choice for most snaps and swivels goes to SPRO. Ok, SPRO is sorta sexy, still... No affiliation, just a satisfied retail customer.

Rule #2: If you are fishing quality tackle and break a rod, line, leader, swivel or hook and you have line left on the spool, the fish didn't break it. You did.

@Yukoner: Like this - https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=243422.msg2468614#msg2468614  ;)2
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Offline Yukoner

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 21, 2019, 07:14 PM »
Got it!

Will order some 30# seven strand.

Thanks,
Ted

Offline Coachkwj

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #25 on: Feb 02, 2019, 08:45 PM »
Finally got out today.
Set my Finicky Foolers with 18 lb. braided wire out and my son put his tipups with 30 lb flouro out. Claims he was having luck with 50 lb. so decided to drop to 30 and see if odds improve. I got 4 takes, one being a 34 incher which was a blast to fight on 10 lb line instead of hand over hand but that's another story. My son got 1 and shortly into the fight bit him off. I got all 4 of mine in. The fact I got 4 takes vs. his one I'm sure as location but the fact that I landed 4 and his lone take bit him off was due to the wire. Watched the video Essox posted link to and don't need crimps anymore. Slick. 2 takeaways. I will always use wire and unless it's really cold I will use the Finicky Fooler. Sold my I-fish Pro. Too much messing around and didn't like the trip mechanism.
Don't fall in. Unless it's a big one.

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #26 on: Feb 03, 2019, 05:25 PM »
Finally got out today.
Set my Finicky Foolers with 18 lb. braided wire out and my son put his tipups with 30 lb flouro out. Claims he was having luck with 50 lb. so decided to drop to 30 and see if odds improve. I got 4 takes, one being a 34 incher which was a blast to fight on 10 lb line instead of hand over hand but that's another story. My son got 1 and shortly into the fight bit him off. I got all 4 of mine in. The fact I got 4 takes vs. his one I'm sure as location but the fact that I landed 4 and his lone take bit him off was due to the wire. Watched the video Essox posted link to and don't need crimps anymore. Slick. 2 takeaways. I will always use wire and unless it's really cold I will use the Finicky Fooler. Sold my I-fish Pro. Too much messing around and didn't like the trip mechanism.

 ;)2 :thumbsup:
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Offline Evil Tom

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #27 on: Feb 03, 2019, 05:45 PM »
Many times have been broken off using fluoro that's why I switched to braid years ago.I know almost everyone hates it for leaders but it works for me and many others.Ive been using suffix performance braid in the 20-30 lb range.I use it on most of my reels as well as tipups because it's way cheaper than all different kinds of wire or braided wire(why)and easy to use.Yea you can rip your hand open when playing a fish by hand but not any different than with fluoro or mono etc.I always wear gloves.

Offline esox_xtm

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #28 on: Feb 03, 2019, 07:44 PM »
Many times have been broken off using fluoro that's why I switched to braid years ago.I know almost everyone hates it for leaders but it works for me and many others.Ive been using suffix performance braid in the 20-30 lb range.I use it on most of my reels as well as tipups because it's way cheaper than all different kinds of wire or braided wire(why)and easy to use.Yea you can rip your hand open when playing a fish by hand but not any different than with fluoro or mono etc.I always wear gloves.

Anything but musky/pike/pickerel ET, anything. That's why...
To fish or not to fish? That's a stupid question!




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Offline HWeber

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Re: Flourocarbon, Mono or Wire Leaders?
« Reply #29 on: Feb 03, 2019, 09:49 PM »
We really need a face palm emoji on this site  ::) doesn't quite cut it..

 



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